Prestige classes availability in BR

[PCyric]

I am currently playing an elven sorcerer/fighter (3/1) in a BR campaign my DM has begun. During the character creation we had a discussion about the prestige classes that are allowed in a BR campaign. For example I argued that a bladesinger should be allowed in the campaign (or at least something similar to it), but he said that he cannot allow it, as he has not found related material in novels or official BR products. Of course the decision was up to him, but I found it difficult to suggest a prestige class that would be perfectly fitted to this world. Am I wrong to assume that Birthright is not exactly the most suited world for prestige classes? Which prestige classes do you think are most suited for BR?

[Riegan Swordwraith]

Well if your DM is only going to allow Prestige Classes that he can find a link to in BR material,there is going to be a short list indeed.I can only think of two off the top of my head,the Assassin and the Warmaster(I think that is what it is called,in the Sword&Fist).I just thought of Weapon Master too.

I think that by doing a few modifications most Prestige Classes can be used in a BR setting.

[Lord Eldred]

I personally think any prestige class can be made to fit any realm. The problem is that the DM decides what should and shouldn't happen in his world. I don't agree with your DM's basis for the decision but he has that right.

[PCyric]

We have already met an assassin in the campaign, but he was more helpful, that I expected (I used to play a barbasian at the beginning of the session). My DM has also created a new prestige class, based in the Shadowworld, the Shadow Walker. It has most of the abilities of the Shadowdancer, but it has many differences too. I totally agree with Swordwraith that with a few modifications (historical backgrounds and BR specific references) most of the prestige classes can be used in a BR campaign setting

[dmferry]

I am busy on an elf Prestige Class called The Shandokan. It's a milder form of the manslayer and specializes (sp??) in archery and stealth.

They belong to a elf cult known as The Shandokan Leaf, who wants to destroy as much humans as they can but at the foundation of human civilization not in the forests. When I am done translating it, I will post it here

~dmferry

[Strahd]

... decides to kill PCyric :) Just kidding of course!
I must say I would like to read more opinions on this matter. Sadly, it seems that 3ed BR is not a hot topic in the boards.
I have read your posts with interest and decided to created a modified bladesinger for my campaign. Though I must warn PCyric that it will contain a few surprises ;)

[PCyric]

Thanks Stradh, I would like to see your conversion on the Bladesinger prestige class. My DM has finally decided to accept this prestige class with a few modifications of his own.
Regarding the lack of interest in the 3rd edition BR, I believe that the guys who just don't want to hear about it have a point, as the WotC promoted the BR poorly.
I am thinking of writing a pdf file with my thoughts on the BR prestige classes, and posting it in this site.;)

[Shieldhaven]

Birthright is a fond memory for many of my friends and me. It was the first serious campaign that I ever ran. I did a terrible job with it, as I didn't have the first idea what the hell I was doing, but we still had a lot of fun. One of these days (and I've been saying this for years ;) ) I'll run another BR campaign, now that I have learned a little about decent DMing. Sigh. I always wished that Birthright had gotten a better launch. It really is one of the most interesting settings. But then, I guess you wouldn't be reading this if you didn't already agree with me. ;)

Shieldhaven

[brownie]

Everytime i played in the past i played FR but with my new group we play in BR and i enjoy it alot more. I like it because in other campaigns you pray to a god but in cerilia the few gods that do come to the earth is alot better. It is fun to have to do little favors for the goddess of the night. But on the prestige classes. They can be used anywhere. It is up to the dm to let you use sertain ones from certain areas. You have to use common sense and you have to make sure the dm is being fair and dont forget but you as players do have to check the dm to make sure he is not being to unfair.

[spehar]

Obviouslly you can play Birthright anyway you want to, but Birthright was clearly meant to be a low magic, low powered world. Prestige classs as written in books are very powerful. I have yet to see one, though I haven't looked to much, that I can easily be a prestige class.

The paladin to me is a prestige class. Certainly there are a lot of Birthrighty prestige class ideas, the most common mentioned being some sort of Shadow Wizard.

Since I DM a lot I might eventually dabble around with an assassin or some sort of knight prestige class. I would tone the power level down. PCyric, if you'd like to play a prestige idea take one you like, tone it down to be on par with the revised ranger or paladin and then show it to your DM. If nothing else you've done some work someone in the Birthright world will appreciate.

[Lord Eldred]

While I agree with you that it is suppose to be a low magic world where do you get the idea that it should also be low powered?

[spehar]

The standard badasses in Cerilia are around 10th level. Certainly though they're not the top end. Converted the Gorgon is a 30th level character! The Gorgon, the Magian, the Raven are basically characters of mythical proportion.

If you play Marlae Roesone and you defeat Gavin Tael and Ghoere your a major hero. 10th level characters are after all half the levels of the traditional D & D campaign world. You've yet to even scrath the surface of mythical proportion. Any system where this is the case to me starts to define power base of the world.

To me this means the top end characters generally will attain 7-12 character levels. Certainly the game world can appeal to those wishing to float 15+ without any changes to it.

[Eric McLuen]

It has always bothered me that game creators feel it necessary to put down actual stats and abilities for the major players. You get two reactions - 'what a putz' or 'you have got to be kidding me'. Think of the original 'Deities and Demi-Gods' and 1st Ed dragons for the former and Earthdawn's Verjigorm or Elwe in RMSS for the latter. I have always felt such entities are meant for NPC's and not for direct contact. It helps keep characters in line if they know that no matter how bad they think they are, there is always something much worse out there yet. They also have a tendency or comparing their characters to the books stats to find out if they can take out a 'mythical creature' ruining any type of tension that might have happened. In conclusion, 'high powered' and 'high level' aren't always the same thing. Keep the characters on their toes. The books are for reference, not law. Start using Call of Cthullu mini's for creatures. The might have stats just like goblins but the character's don't know it. (An Ed Greenwood trick) There should be always be something the character's can't have or can't do - just don't tell them what it is.

[spehar]

It's always a good idea to mix things up when you DM. There's no reason to keep monster stats, special abilities, or anything else about a monster.

Next time try throwing a medusa at the characters who should know nothing about the monster. If they look away to avoid her gaze then have the medusa use a siren attack. They'll think twice about using OOC knowledge in character.

[Riegan Swordwraith]

The moment you give stats to a mythical hero,god,etc.,you give it the ability to be killed.

[Lord Eldred]

You mean I can't kill the Gorgon, that is it I quit. I am never playing this game again! ;)

[Chioran]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

You mean I can't kill the Gorgon, that is it I quit. I am never playing this game again! ;)

Sweet!

Hey Shaene, I'll split his provinces with you?!

[Mark_Aurel]

The moment you give stats to a mythical hero,god,etc.,you give it the ability to be killed.

Uh huh. I suppose it would take someone of heroic proportions to do it, though. Someone like - a group of Player Characters. Sounds about right to me. ;)

I agree about BR being a generally low magic campaign. I don't think that makes it low powered in general - it makes high-level BR characters generally low powered compared to the high-level characters in other worlds. On lower levels, BR characters are about the same, if not better than PCs from other worlds.

Most prestige classes in BR should be predominantly non-magical. I can see toning down some prestige classes somewhat - but generally speaking, a prestige class should be the *best* at his niche. A cavalier prestige class makes no sense if a fighter can be a better horseman through feats.

[Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel]

Low in Magic, High in Fiber.

Its not as much fun, ganging up on legendary/mythical beings, it kinda takes the glory out of it.

Birthright should be low magic. I like the idea of lots of prestige classes. Many of the prestige classes would have low skill and level based requirements and have more prestige based requirements for example:

Iron Guard (of Ghoere):

BAB +3
Strategy, 5 ranks
Ride, 6 ranks
Mounted Combat Feat
Special: Must be hand picked by the appropriate Ghoerean official to be allowed training with the elite Iron Guards.

This assumes that most of the members of the Iron Guard are lower level than most experienced regents [particularly PCs] (about 3rd level), have soldiery experience, and have been honored in service of Ghoere. I would assume that its a small prestige class (maybe 5 levels) that gives mostly prestige bonuses such as special privelages in the Realm of Ghoere.

This can be repeated for any and all of the special units in the campaign (Watch Ranger, Massenmarch Claw, or Mor's Headhunters). Each of these prestige classes should be smaller and easier to access to NPCs. In addition, they further bind characters to a realm and would all have consequences for deserting. These suggestions are just for special unit-based prestige classes.

As for other prestige classes, the kits from the Books of Regency, Magecraft, and Priestcraft can serve as ideas. The Birthright campaign has amazing potential for prestige classes.