Halflings and Shadow Walk

[Azrai]

Is it really a good idea, to make the shadow walk ability for halflings only as a feat possible? I think that kills a lot of the Birthright flair.

Most Halflings will loose the ability, because a feat is so expensive. The whole game-world will be changed. IMagine, there may be some Halflings (with the feat) that play the role of a "scout" in their community.

I propose, give them the feat for free. It's only fair compared to the elven or dwarven abilities.

[DanMcSorley]

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Azrai wrote:
> Is it really a good idea, to make the shadow walk ability for
> halflings only as a feat possible? I think that kills a lot of the
> Birthright flair.
>
> Most Halflings will loose the ability, because a feat is so expensive.
> The whole game-world will be changed. IMagine, there may be some
> Halflings (with the feat) that play the role of a "scout" in their
> community.
>
> I propose, give them the feat for free. It`s only fair compared to
> the elven or dwarven abilities.

The feat idea for elves, dwarves, and halflings was just my suggestion to
make them ECL 0. It works just as well for them to have all their
abilities by default, but then they need to be ECL +1 at least.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Mark_Aurel]

I propose, give them the feat for free. It's only fair compared to the elven or dwarven abilities.

That would be very poorly balanced. Consider the power of the ability to enter the shadow world - it is a pretty strong ability for a feat. If halflings were to be given this as a racial ability, they'd need at least +1 LA. The feat is a strong one, but I wouldn't always put it on a list of must-have feats for halfling characters, since it's a bit of a circumstantial ability, and is a utility ability without direct offensive potential. As far as balancing halflings vs elves and dwarves go, I'd say halflings are already probably the overall "best" racial package you can get, all things considered. Shadow sense is a very strong ability, and most of the other halfling abilities aren't too shabby, either. If any single race warrants a +1 LA already, it is halflings.

I'd like to see a bit more discussion on races, on a particular point of interest; my questions would be roughly as follows:

1. How close are the BR races to having a level adjustment? I'd like to see what people think about this, "all things considered" - with a special emphasis on combat effectiveness. If they aren't quite +1 LA, what would be required to boost them there? I.e. the goal would be to make them a "decent" or "strong" +1 LA, not a "weak" +1 LA.
2. How much does boosting the races like we've done in the playtest version screw with the CR system? Is it much harder to pick encounters of appropriate CR with the current BR races draft? I'd prefer if lengthy discourses of "why the 3e CR system is incredibly flawed and I have house rules that work much better" be kept at bay for this. Cough.
3. Beyond the CR system, are there any good reasons within the core rules for keeping races balanced with the PHB standard? (I know this sounds stupid, but there's always things one overlooks.)

[Yair]

Originally posted by Mark_Aurel

I'd like to see a bit more discussion on races, on a particular point of interest; my questions would be roughly as follows:

1. How close are the BR races to having a level adjustment?
I think getting everyone to +1 ECL is a Good Idea. I think humans fall short on this, one or two more "feat-equivalents" are needed there.
Dwarves I think can be considered ECL +1. The +4 Str is neat, but the half-damage thing is just great. I think it should be given as DR, though. This will make it more 3E like. As it stands, it is probably a "weak" +1, but I don't see how to easily boost them. It would be easier with DR (a DR of 8/whatever, for example, will be +2 if not more, while 1/x will be a weak +1. I'd recommend 2-3/-, with feats that increase DR).
Halflings are pretty much ECL +1 already as well. To take them to it, I'll simply drop the need for Search - its easier that way, and I think a few Detect spells at will are worth the +1.
Elves - I'd like to give them back the pass-without-trace shtick. But this is probably just my per peeve.

2. How much does boosting the races like we've done in the playtest version screw with the CR system?
From my experience (I run a campaign with ECL'd characters) an ECL isn't quite an actual level. It's better to balance the foes to the party's usual EL, but keep the special abilties in mind. Those hp are crucial. It is more difficult than the PHB races, either way.

3. Beyond the CR system, are there any good reasons within the core rules for keeping races balanced with the PHB standard? (I know this sounds stupid, but there's always things one overlooks.)
Not really. Well, not that I can think of :P

Now allow me to enter my own pet peeve about halflings and shadow walk: there is a spell called shadow walk. Either change the name of the feat, or combine the two somehow (my favorite solution - keep the shadow-walk mechanic, and allow halflings that entered shadow to use the same rules as the spell or to dive into the depths of shadows in 1d4 rounds).

[Azrai]

I can only point out that ECL's are really hard to play. This is especially the case, if the rest of the group has a lower ECL.

Playing an ECL of +3 works at the beginning, but turns out to be very hard at higher levels. D&D is a game for groups, and it is frustrating when other people distribute their level-up-abilities an yourself eat the rest of the cake....

Consider that you can have an ECL of +4 if you play a blooded Halfling. No one will ever play that.

One additional point could also be that ECL is not easy to understand for new players. They can not see whe whole scope of the decision taking an ECL class.

So I would propose to drop the ECL for Birthright races, give them their "old" abilities and take into account, that they are unbalanced compared to other worlds.

[Raesene Andu]

Actually, this is not so major a change. If you read the description for the Burrows it talks about halfling getting training to teach them to use their Shadow World abilities. This would suggest (at least it does to me) that not all halflings have this ability, and perhaps only those who have studied this power have the ability to use it (i.e. they have taken the feat).

[DanMcSorley]

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Azrai wrote:
> One additional point could also be that ECL is not easy to understand
> for new players. They can not see whe whole scope of the decision
> taking an ECL class.
>
> So I would propose to drop the ECL for Birthright races, give them
> their "old" abilities and take into account, that they are
> unbalanced compared to other worlds.

That`s a bad idea. Since we want all their abilities to be available,
they need either an ECL, or to take the abilities as feats. Just saying
"I made this unbalanced, deal with it" is awful design.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Shade]

>Consider that you can have an ECL of +4 if you play a blooded Halfling. No
one will ever play that.

>So I would propose to drop the ECL for Birthright races, give them their
"old" abilities and take into account, that they are unbalanced compared
to other worlds.

I think the problem here is not the +ECL for the races, but the +ECL for
the bloodlines. I`ll write more about my thoughts on the weekend.

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