Bloodlines and casting Divine spells without Gods

[Athos69]

On page 68, under Divine spellcasting, there is a paragraph that reads, in part:

"All blooded scions contain with them some small spark of divinity; the more powerful the bloodline, the more powerful the spark. Any scion with a True bloodline is capable of channeling enough divine energyto cast divine spells without a patron deity. ..."

Nowhere in the rules that I have been able to locate does it give the parameters or rules to adjucate this. This leads me to believe that this concept was originally planned for Chapter 4, but was excised during one of the internal revisions and the refeence was overlooked.

Can someone please either point out the area in the rules I am missing, or confirm that this was an oversight?

[Yair]

I don't know where it says so, but I do know both the Serpent and the Sphinx (and, presumably, others?) have clerics that serve them and can cast divine spells. As the text on page 68 also says that those who completed their bloodform can also grant spells to clerics, it seems to me that this is a mechanic inteded to make such things possbile within the rules.
Then again, there might a precedent I am missing. I am hardly knowledgable in BR matters.

[irdeggman]

Yair is absolutely correct. The reason for this addition was to account for awnsheglien as pointed out.

More details could be useful but without refering to Deities and Demigods (not a core book and not everyone will have it as a reference) for how to handle this type of thing it was thought to best leave the specific methods of application to the individual DM.:)

[Raedwald]

Ehrsheghlien might also have the same ability.

[Azrai]

This is an interesting topic and should clearly be specified.

According to Deities&Demigods the ability to give grant spells starts with the Demigod status.

I would propose the way presented in "On hallowed ground" 2. Edition: if one has a certain number of devoted followers, he can grant spells.

Maybe the prerequisites for Birthright: True bloodline, devoted followers; maybe one could restrict the the maxium spell level somehow.

I would not like to have that every true blooded can grant spells.

[ConjurerDragon]

Azrai wrote:

>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=1383
>
> Azrai wrote:
> This is an interesting topic and should clearly be specified.
>
>According to Deities&Demigods the ability to give grant spells starts with the Demigod status.
>
>I would propose the way presented in "On hallowed ground" 2. Edition: if one has a certain number of devoted followers, he can grant spells.
>
>Maybe the prerequisites for Birthright: True bloodline, devoted followers; maybe one could restrict the the maxium spell level somehow.
>
>I would not like to have that every true blooded can grant spells.
>
EVERY true blooded?
How much true blooded persons besides the Gorgon are e.g . in Anuire? ;-)
bye
Michael Romes

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[irdeggman]

Well - there is the Spider and Rhoubhe. Although I don't see either one being of the granting spells type of creatures. There is also the potential of the Cold Rider.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Azrai

Maybe the prerequisites for Birthright: True bloodline, devoted followers; maybe one could restrict the the maxium spell level somehow.
No bad idea. In the "deities and demigods" rule book a demigod must "borrow" spells from a more powerful deity instead of granting them himself. In 3rd Edition the Gorgon is written as a "quasi deity" (divine rank 0), so he might not grant spells (a demigod must have divine rank 1+).

The serpent or the sphinx might have more followers and so a divine rank or more each. Then there are two opinions: First they "choose" a "superior-deity" (such as Belinik or Kriesha, maybe the Cold Raider) they could "borrow" high level spells to "grant" them to their followers.
The other opinion would be, that they still have enough divine "energy" to "steal" it from themselves. If opinion 2 is taken, there should be an "energy limit" (something like exhaustion, if granting a spell higher than 5th level). So they could grant spells until 9th level, but it should exhaust them this much, that they simply don't grant it (in fear they could be easily get killed if exhausted this much). If such a being gains more than 6 divine ranks (they become a lesser deity), the exhaustion should be gone...

[teloft]

an idee for a dm to conect the Spell level thay can grant with there RP.

If I am to grant a 2nd level spell for 3 month I burn 2 RP. Now everyone devoded to me with cleric levels can cast this 2nd lv spell as any other cleric.

[Trithemius]

teloft:

> an idee for a dm to conect the Spell level thay can grant with there

> RP.

>

> If I am to grant a 2nd level spell for 3 month I burn 2 RP. Now

> everyone devoded to me with cleric levels can cast this 2nd lv spell as

> any other cleric.



Scions are gods now?

In My Cerilia I would *certainly* not allow this as a general rule; and I would

baulk at using it even in highly specific cases (i.e. like the Serpent and the

weirdness involved there). Are godless clerics really a good addition to the

Cerilian setting?



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Trithemius@Feb 1 2004, 09:50 PM
teloft:

> an idee for a dm to conect the Spell level thay can grant with there

> RP.

>

> If I am to grant a 2nd level spell for 3 month I burn 2 RP. Now

> everyone devoded to me with cleric levels can cast this 2nd lv spell as

> any other cleric.



Scions are gods now?

In My Cerilia I would *certainly* not allow this as a general rule; and I would

baulk at using it even in highly specific cases (i.e. like the Serpent and the

weirdness involved there). Are godless clerics really a good addition to the

Cerilian setting?



--

John Machin
You are reading too much into this. The discussion revolved around awns (and potentially ersh) that have (in 2nd specifically) followers that have divine spell casting abilties and trying to come up with some game-mechanic explanation for it.

There was some discussion over this a while back (I can't remember when and don't have the inclination to do a more in depth search for the threads) talking about this. The belief was generally that for awn/ersh with true bloodlines they could begin to make the ascension to godhood. This process is some what covered in Deities and Demigods. Awn/ersh are more than just scions and this needs to be remembered whenever something involving them is brought up.

Regardless of the tact taken - this process would be limited to only those with true bloodlines. And in 2nd ed (as well as 3/3.5) a scion cannot 'gain' a true blood line by any act he undertakes. Raising his bloodline strength through the process detailed in the Book of Regency (2nd ed) or the Revised Chapt 2 of the BRCS does not allow gaining a true bloodline sttrength.

[Trithemius]

irdeggman :

> You are reading too much into this. The discussion revolved around awns

> (and potentially ersh) that have (in 2nd specifically) followers that

> have divine spell casting abilties and trying to come up with some

> game-mechanic explanation for it.



No no, that is exactly what I thought it was.



> There was some discussion over this a while back (I can`t remember when

> and don`t have the inclination to do a more in depth search for the

> threads) talking about this. The belief was generally that for awn/ersh

> with true bloodlines they could begin to make the ascension to

> godhood. This process is some what covered in Deities and Demigods.

> Awn/ersh are more than just scions and this needs to be remembered

> whenever something involving them is brought up.



I`m not convinced that awnsheghlien and erhsheghlien *are* a lot more than just

powerful scions. I think they might just be scions who consider their bloodline

to be their defining characteristic, instead of their ability to rule more

efficiently (or however you describe the RP generation and expenditure process).



These creatures certainly become something else, I do not think that

this "something else" is a god though.



--

John Machin

(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)

-----------------------------------------------------

"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."

-----------------------------------------------------

- Athanasius Kircher, `The Great Art of Knowledge`.