Do you enforce the maximum regency collection rule based on bloodline

[Lawgiver]

Do you enforce the rule that limits a regent's collection of regency to their bloodline score? Meaning a regent with a Domain Power of 56 and a blood score of 27 would only collect 27 regency per daomin turn.

It has been my experience that a regent (of a realm, not a organization) rarely has a bloodline score to match their domain power. I have only had one player with a Bloodline strength greater than their Domain Power... the ruler of Ilien. I have waved this rule basing regency solely on Domain Power. I am I alone in this?

[Magian]

I think I will wait for another boat to come along.

[Yak]

It needs to be enforced. A Regent with a larger bloodline should have more power. Players with smaller bloodlines have a disadvantage, but it is easly turned around with vassalage and paying the needed RPs for an increase.

[Perhelion]

I voted for enforcing:
I'd say this rule is one major reason Anuire is still so divided... without it the Empire would surely have been restored by force of arms by now. Don't bite bigger than you can chew!
The only way to restore an empire would be through trust and vassalage, which sounds reasonable.

[Lawgiver]

If your PC happens to roll patheticallly on the Bloodline table (Tainted = 4d4) and gets an 8 and your DM doesn't adjust it. How in the world could you possibly rule a realm with more than 3 provinces? Much less have the influence to enforce vassalage on someone? Even with all the gold and military might in the world you are striving in vain without regency.

[Perhelion]

Indeed you are. That is a problem when you compete in a world where there is a divine right to rule. Still, with careful nurture of your bloodline, your three provinces may grow over the generations. Rome was not built in a day!
If your DM expects you to take over Cerilia, he should give you the means to do so.

[Riegan Swordwraith]

Here here Perhelion!!!!!:)

I agree fully Perhelion.

[Yak]

Yes, that is a problem with Birthright, the players think they must conquer everything, especialy in PBEMs. Rather then settle on winning a few provinces in a war and make peace, they try and take one massive army and go for the juggular. That is fine but usually makes for one or two states even making a second or third turn because only one or two states can do that tactic in Birthright and survive.

[Magian]

In regards to the example of rome one must also consider that Rome won by the sword. In pbems that I have played in it tends to be politically incorrect to use such tactics, however Roele himself forged his empire this way, of course parrallel to the romans many allies came to his side in the face of his might without the sword. Look at Gavin Tael, his power is overwhelming yet he is held back because he overstepped his bloodline in domain power. He must be careful in the enemies he makes for certainly a small alliance can and will deal him a massive blow. In other words money isn't everything.

If you are a player with 8 bld str and only control 3 provinces, well I say that is your problem. The game of kings is a cutthroat game and if you cannot succeed in your plots you will perish or succumb to another's might.

It is similar to me trying to start up a software company to rival microsoft. Sure I might succeed but it wont be overnight or even easy. Besides if you only considered the domain power of the game the bloodline essentially is negated and the Gorgon could have taken cerilia centuries ago.

[Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel]

I voted that I waive the rule. However, Magians arguments make a lot of sense. However, I still think that if your domain power is higher than your bloodline strength, you should be able to tap the might of at least some of that power.

Perhaps for every one-eighth (or so) of your bloodline strength that your domain power exceeds your bloodline, you get one extra regency up to twice your bloodline score. That way, the bs8 regent would be able to get 16 regency if his domain power were 16, but more would require him to increase his bloodline strength. In further example, a bs40 regent would be able to get one more regency for each 5 points of domain strength over 40, maxing out at 48 regency from 80 domain strength.

A different fraction would probably be more balanced, but that is the idea. I'm not 100% if I would allow the extra regency ever, though, because I've been somewhat persuaded by the other arguments.

[Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel]

to finish, the method above is a way to make bloodline strength be important, without crippling weaker bloodlines and without making them automatically as powerful as stronger ones.

You could limit this at double the bloodline score in regency or domain power that is affected by this scale. In any case, its easier for weaker bloodlines to be exceeded and harder for stronger bloodlines to get extra regency.

[Lawgiver]

Orginally posted by Perhelion

Indeed you are. That is a problem when you compete in a world where there is a divine right to rule. Still, with careful nurture of your bloodline, your three provinces may grow over the generations. Rome was not built in a day!
If your DM expects you to take over Cerilia, he should give you the means to do so.
So you are saying if you want a regent who has any power your DM should cheat for you. SO basically... enforce the rules when they fit, and break them when its to your benefit...
That makes a lot of sense.

[Riegan Swordwraith]

I don't think Perhelion meant to wave the Bloodstrenth-Domain Power rule by that(I am looking at what I think you mean Perhelion),but instead of taking a rule and throwing it out the window,maybe the weak regent has something,info,an important ally,etc,in which to at least give him a fighting chance.

The problem with the rule as I see it Lawgiver is balance.If you ditch that rule to benefit a regent in your game,you have to do it for all.So now(if they couldn't already),Avan and Boeruine can take FULL adavntage of the strength they have at their disposal(or some other regent-antagonist of your choice).As can all other regents,which I think would totally screw the whole system.

[Raesene Andu]

Well, as you may have guessed, I voted to enforce the rule. In my experiences PCs generally end up with vast numbers of RPs and GBs anyway, why allow them any benifit to begin with by collecting as many RPs as their domain score. Anyway, as others have pointed out, if you want a higher bloodline you spend your RPs to raise your bloodline, or get out there and do something heroic that raises your bloodline. Allowing a regent to just collect as many RPs as he can, regardless of his bloodline effectivly makes the bloodline score meaningless, only useful for determining how many blood abilities a regent has. It means that someone with a tainted bloodline can collect as many RPs as Darien Avan, or one of the other regents with Great bloodlines!

That said, if you want to chance the rules, go for it. However, I will be strictly enforcing that particular rule in my games.

[Perhelion]

Lawgiver:
I am saying that if the campaign plans of the DM include the players standing a chance to take over Cerilia, then he should give you ways to increase your bloodline (bloodstones, bloodtheft, divine gifts etc.)
If he plans a campaign where every regent should try to do the best for him/herself, then each regent should carefully consider his assets and choose a policy in accordance with them. There ae more than a hundred other DM controlled regents with much the same objectives out there. You''l need to prove you are worth a bigger crown if you want it.

[Magian]

Originally Posted by Lawgiver

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So you are saying if you want a regent who has any power your DM should cheat for you. SO basically... enforce the rules when they fit, and break them when its to your benefit...
That makes a lot of sense.

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That is quite an odd stance for the originator of this post to take when the subject is in itself breaking the original rules for the benefit of the PC. Just a side note that I found odd, no hard feelings.

[Lawgiver]

Orginally posted by Magian
That is quite an odd stance for the originator of this post to take when the subject is in itself breaking the original rules for the benefit of the PC. Just a side note that I found odd, no hard feelings.
Touche~
I was wondering who would note that irony. Though there is a subtle difference. I wantto change the rule and enforce it while Perhelion merely waved the rule regarding the rolled bloodline. I confess to fudging at times myself. I'm sure if we were all honest we would all be guilty to some extent.

Raesene Andu: I have rarely had a problem with PCs stockpiling RP and GBs. I don't let them ;). There is always plenty of action and radom events, contests, intrigues, etc. that suck the PCs resources before they get to high. I'm not spiteful about it I just make a little more of a challenge then simply collect stuff, roll improve, collect stuff, adventure, improve, collect stuff, roll, rool, etc. (I'm not being critical of anyone here... I've just been a part of such campaigns... which ... well to be blunt--suck!)

Anyway to each his own. I just wanted to get some other's opinions and see if I was alone (which I seem to be :P)

[Temujin]

I'm all in favor of enforcing the rule on regency. That being said, I'm generally lenient on my players when they roll a bloodline, since we like to play heroic characters, not some random bunch of blooded morrons =P Which means that someone who rolls a tainted bloodline probably will get to reroll once, or even twice, so he gets at least a minor bloodline.

If you DO end up being stuck with a bloodline of 8 however, trust me, DON'T be a ruler. Landed regents with 8 points in bloodline will have little or no way to keep their domain since random events, opponents and domain actions will suck all the RPs they can get their hand on. If you get a bloodline of 8, I recommend playing guilds, which are generally less plagued by the random events and war actions, and if they can get the support of a landed regent(usually by some well-placed bribe), they can take their time to slowly increase their bloodline since actions like creating a trade route don't take this many RPs(And if you are less scrupulous than some, feel free to kidnap and disinvest/bloodtheft some of your rivals). Of course, they'll never be as powerful as quickly as any guilder with a big bloodline, but such is life.

[Lawgiver]

As an extreme:
So then a 13th level character with straight 18s for ability scores, high popularity through the realm for heroism, a deep knowledge of administration, law, diplomacy and etiquette, etc. are all in vain if you have an 8 bloodline when you are up against a regent with all 9s for abilitiy scores, who is despised by everyone, who has the first clue how to tie his boots much less rules a country...Isn't that what the rule of regency proposes?

[Perhelion]

True, but if you are such a god-gifted regent with a lowly ancestry, defy your inapt but well born rival into something you can beat him at! (A tournament comes to mind). Impress him! Make him fearful and cower behind his armies! Be heroic for adventure's sake! Don't just rely on mere numbers to define your actions!
If you only play to use the rules of regency, might as well play a board game no?

[blitzmacher]

Well said Perhelion

[Lawgiver]

Perhelion: I agree with your statements. I'm just stating that the rules are jaded toward those with the bloodline. I personally prefer a challenge.

Maybe I should change my screenname from Lawgiver to DebateSparker.

[Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel]

If you really want to be a heroic regent, and your bloodline is low but your abilities are good, cleanse the land of the evil blooded. You can, in this manner, increase your bloodline through bloodtheft (much quicker than regency) and be even more heroic for it. The reverse applies to evil regents (who can be less discriminating on their choice of victims). If your character has an 18 intelligence, then finding other ways to increase bloodline should come naturally.

In any case, I think if you have a low bloodline (like 8) then you should hold off on regency until you have a higher bloodline and can manage a kingdom, then have someone invest you with something. That should be a good-roleplaying oppurtunity in itself.

[Lord Eldred]

So far I would have to vote with the arguments that say to enforce the rules. I think that the weak should focus on building up their bloodline before they try to go out and build an empire.

[Lord Shaene]

I don't feel the rule should not be waived, but I could see where a change in the rule could be more realistic and beneficial,perhaps you could get your bloodline score in regency and say +3 points for every 10 points of your domain power, so if you had a bloodline score of 25 and a domain power of say 60 you would recieve 25 regency points for your bloodline and (60 divided by 10 = 6 times that by 3 for a total of 18) 18 points for your domain power for a combined regency gain of 25 + 18 = 43 points

[Lord Eldred]

Once again I feel that it is necessary to remind Lord Shaene that as his DM that will never happen!

Gargamel, just be careful because a good character that is taking in all this evil blood can't do so without any risks. Especially blood tainted by the Azrai!