Airgedok
04-20-2003, 12:01 PM
I'm new to the boards and new to birthright because I stopped playing D&D well before 2nd edition and second edition didnt change the things I hated about D&D enough to return to it. 3e has made some major advancements to the system enough so that I have happily returned. One thing that has been a problem with D&D is how it chooses to balance things. A PC races stats all banance to zero and humans are all most always given no stat bonuses. This makes them sterile, bland no flavour to them but a simple change of making all PC races stats balance to +1 means that you have a vast amount of playing room to make Balanced characters with unique feel to them.
A balanced 0 character is a character that balances to 0 when all its racial stat scores are added (ie elf +2 dex, + cha, -2 str, -2con = 0 )
A balanced +1 character is a character that balances to +1 when all its racial stat scores are added (ie elf +2 dex +2 cha +1 int, -2 str -2 con)
The key is to determine which races get which stat at +1 some are easy like
dwarves---+1 str
halflings---+1 con
elves-------+1 int
humans----???? +1 str or perhaps +1 wis or whatever
but these can be determined any way to fit what best fits a campaign world.
D&D takes the balance to zero method to almost everything and this limits their ability to deal with balance issues. When you try to balance all aspects of a character to zero then it becomes difficult or rather imposible. THe key isnt to try to make all characters equal in "combat power" using feats(including class abilities) & hit ponts with the three primary methods of combat abilities - skills (rogue) attacks via weapons (fights) or spells (wizards or clerics). This leads to frustration and limits the roles that these characters play in fantasy literature as game mechanics are used to limit other areas of the character so that the character cant use these aspects to increase combat ability. The key is not make them balanced overall. One character loses combat ability for gains in non combat areas.
The most striking example is the wizard. In MOST fantasy literature wizards are the "brains" of the group the ones with the most knowledge about things they often know a little of everything. But in D&D they only have 2 skill points and those 2 points are needed in concentration and spellscraft. Scry and arcane knowledge are also very important and you already have eaten up 2 bonus skill points from Int bonus. This doesnt allow you to create the "brain" character. So why is this done??? Well its done to help balance the rogue class with its 8 skill points. Along with feats (including class abilities) the rogue uses its skills to gain its advantage in combat. A rogue with bluff and a good cha can get a decent chance to sneak attack every combat turn. The stealth skills let it gain tactical advantage. Search and disarm skills allow it to defeat inanimate combat threats like traps. So its skills are what balance its combat abilities compared to the other classes. Now the rogue has the ability to give up its combat balance for other skills that are not a help in combat like forgery and it has the skill points to afford cross class skills. So the rogue has veratility in its character design.
The fighter, cleric and wizard have so few skill points and so few class skills that its hard to provide variety to the characters that is not combat orientated.
So what does this all have to do with scions and balance??? Because the balance sytem in D&D is primarily geared to combat when you add a new element to the mix you find that you cant quiet get it to fit. Birthright is a game that has two levels other campaign worlds do not. Most deal with the adventure level and that it. Birthright deals also with the regent level as well and so we now have a two areas that a scion character has to fit into and be balanced all the while being added to a class sytem that is almost wholely balanced for combat.
I feel that the system of trying to make a scion charater equal to a non-scion character is a hopeless. You cant. The scion will be either far more powerful or far to penalised.
So perhaps the way to handle the situation is not to try.
When using the point buy system this is very easy. IF a character takes a scion that isnt minor, as minor scions are close enought to balanced with the point buy system. Then the non scion gets the advantage on not having to put points into his blood score.
If a player chooses a major blood strength as the highest blood strenght type of the party then
all other non or minor blooded characters get to add +2 to one stat and +1 to two other stats (excluding blood)
Great blood type
minor and non - +4 to one stat, & +2 to two other stats (excluding blood)
major - +2 to one stat and +1 to two others (excluding blood)
Great heritage
any non great heritage charater - +4 to one stat, & +2 to two other stats (excluding blood)
This goes a long way to balance out the differences in blood strength. Yes it add large stat bonuses BUT this isnt a problem because birthright is a high powered campaign setting. This doesnt lead to munchionism that would happen in the standard setting as the birthright setting is such that you meet on average more powerful foes. Thus over all campaign balance it still acheived. What you get is non blooded characters with higher stats but bloods with weaker stats but blood abilities to compansate.
This method doesnt try to make the balance perfect nor does it try to nerf blooded characters or limit their powers which seem to be independant of experience but can be increased through events in life. This apprears to be the idea behind the scenes.
Let us also not forget that as a DM I could give all my characters +4 skill points a level, with +2 to every stat and bonus feats without one step towards munchinism and unbalance. How you ask?? It is all on what the players encounter. If I shift my challenges to take into account that the players have more skills and highter stats and more feats then they are not more powerful they only appear more powerful. What they are is more powerful when compared to generic characters not when compared with the challenges of my campaign. This is why birthright isnt a joke. I may have far more powerful characters in BR when compared to generic D&D but not when I compare it to the challenges of the BR campaign setting.
A balanced 0 character is a character that balances to 0 when all its racial stat scores are added (ie elf +2 dex, + cha, -2 str, -2con = 0 )
A balanced +1 character is a character that balances to +1 when all its racial stat scores are added (ie elf +2 dex +2 cha +1 int, -2 str -2 con)
The key is to determine which races get which stat at +1 some are easy like
dwarves---+1 str
halflings---+1 con
elves-------+1 int
humans----???? +1 str or perhaps +1 wis or whatever
but these can be determined any way to fit what best fits a campaign world.
D&D takes the balance to zero method to almost everything and this limits their ability to deal with balance issues. When you try to balance all aspects of a character to zero then it becomes difficult or rather imposible. THe key isnt to try to make all characters equal in "combat power" using feats(including class abilities) & hit ponts with the three primary methods of combat abilities - skills (rogue) attacks via weapons (fights) or spells (wizards or clerics). This leads to frustration and limits the roles that these characters play in fantasy literature as game mechanics are used to limit other areas of the character so that the character cant use these aspects to increase combat ability. The key is not make them balanced overall. One character loses combat ability for gains in non combat areas.
The most striking example is the wizard. In MOST fantasy literature wizards are the "brains" of the group the ones with the most knowledge about things they often know a little of everything. But in D&D they only have 2 skill points and those 2 points are needed in concentration and spellscraft. Scry and arcane knowledge are also very important and you already have eaten up 2 bonus skill points from Int bonus. This doesnt allow you to create the "brain" character. So why is this done??? Well its done to help balance the rogue class with its 8 skill points. Along with feats (including class abilities) the rogue uses its skills to gain its advantage in combat. A rogue with bluff and a good cha can get a decent chance to sneak attack every combat turn. The stealth skills let it gain tactical advantage. Search and disarm skills allow it to defeat inanimate combat threats like traps. So its skills are what balance its combat abilities compared to the other classes. Now the rogue has the ability to give up its combat balance for other skills that are not a help in combat like forgery and it has the skill points to afford cross class skills. So the rogue has veratility in its character design.
The fighter, cleric and wizard have so few skill points and so few class skills that its hard to provide variety to the characters that is not combat orientated.
So what does this all have to do with scions and balance??? Because the balance sytem in D&D is primarily geared to combat when you add a new element to the mix you find that you cant quiet get it to fit. Birthright is a game that has two levels other campaign worlds do not. Most deal with the adventure level and that it. Birthright deals also with the regent level as well and so we now have a two areas that a scion character has to fit into and be balanced all the while being added to a class sytem that is almost wholely balanced for combat.
I feel that the system of trying to make a scion charater equal to a non-scion character is a hopeless. You cant. The scion will be either far more powerful or far to penalised.
So perhaps the way to handle the situation is not to try.
When using the point buy system this is very easy. IF a character takes a scion that isnt minor, as minor scions are close enought to balanced with the point buy system. Then the non scion gets the advantage on not having to put points into his blood score.
If a player chooses a major blood strength as the highest blood strenght type of the party then
all other non or minor blooded characters get to add +2 to one stat and +1 to two other stats (excluding blood)
Great blood type
minor and non - +4 to one stat, & +2 to two other stats (excluding blood)
major - +2 to one stat and +1 to two others (excluding blood)
Great heritage
any non great heritage charater - +4 to one stat, & +2 to two other stats (excluding blood)
This goes a long way to balance out the differences in blood strength. Yes it add large stat bonuses BUT this isnt a problem because birthright is a high powered campaign setting. This doesnt lead to munchionism that would happen in the standard setting as the birthright setting is such that you meet on average more powerful foes. Thus over all campaign balance it still acheived. What you get is non blooded characters with higher stats but bloods with weaker stats but blood abilities to compansate.
This method doesnt try to make the balance perfect nor does it try to nerf blooded characters or limit their powers which seem to be independant of experience but can be increased through events in life. This apprears to be the idea behind the scenes.
Let us also not forget that as a DM I could give all my characters +4 skill points a level, with +2 to every stat and bonus feats without one step towards munchinism and unbalance. How you ask?? It is all on what the players encounter. If I shift my challenges to take into account that the players have more skills and highter stats and more feats then they are not more powerful they only appear more powerful. What they are is more powerful when compared to generic characters not when compared with the challenges of my campaign. This is why birthright isnt a joke. I may have far more powerful characters in BR when compared to generic D&D but not when I compare it to the challenges of the BR campaign setting.