D&d Miniatures Handbook

[Mourn]

Is there a chance that Birthright d20 will use the D&D Miniatures system in order to deal with skirmish and massive battles?

[DanMcSorley]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Mourn wrote:

> Is there a chance that Birthright d20 will use the D&D Miniatures

> system in order to deal with skirmish and massive battles?



There is not a 0% chance. But the version I`m writing right now is based

on Malhavoc Press`s "Cry Havoc" book, which features an excellent

mass-combat rules set based on regular D&D tactical rules. Someone who

can handle a character in D&D can pick up these rules, note a couple small

changes, and go. The "cry havoc" rules are open content, which means we

can use them without any hassle or getting special permission. The

miniatures rules are not yet, and I don`t know if they`ll ever be.



The D&D minatures book is not intended for "mass combat" on the scale that

a political game like Birthright requires. It claims to be for

"skirmishes", which is apparently "as many figures as you and your

opponent can afford to put on the table". The mass combat rules will

probably be something like "say each figure represents 10 guys instead of

1, and use the same rules", which is what most all mass combat rules are

at heart, but it will take a 30 dollar book and "collectible" packs of

miniatures to pull it off. Cry Havoc is like $13 (and I recommend it to

anyone interested in games with wars), and the BRCS will be free.



The miniatures book basically a hardcover moneymaker for wizards, to

supplement the "collectable miniatures" they`re putting out for that game-

remember, they found that hardcovers make the most money, and decided

that`s all they`ll be producing. With the minis themselves, they

apparently think they`ve figured out a way to bring the continuous income

model (booster packs) of Magic: the Gathering to D&D. In my opinion, it`s

a rediculous proposition.



I haven`t yet seen the miniatures book, who knows, it could be

tremendously better than Cry Havoc. But Wizards` last mini game flopped

in like a year, this is probably a rehash of that, but New! Improved!

Collectible! Heh.



If it turns out to be great, it would be simple for me to put up stats for

BR units in the required format.



Sorry if this sounds angry, I`m still kind of hacked off at wizards for

the censorship provisions in the d20 license.

--

Daniel McSorley

[Raesene Andu]

I think you will find that the rules in the current version of the BRCS are not too difficult to use minitures with, just substitute them in place of warcards.

I'd agree with Dan with my current assesement of this Minitures thingy that WotC is releasing and will personally be unlikely to buy anything from that product line. Besides, it is the intention of the BR team to produce a product that can used with just the core rules, and does not need a vast array of additional material to play. That way it is accessable by everyone.

That said, if someone wants to write up a version of mass combat rules for BR using the D&D minitures rules, then we will consider including it in the BRCS.

[RaspK_FOG]

That who would do such a thing would be abrave soul indeed...

Anyhow, do you know where can I buy Malhavoc products without resorting to getting an abhorred credit card? I know it would make online orders possible, which is something I dream of, resorting to whatever other option there is, but I hate to have people on my neck and avoid the things if I can!

[DanMcSorley]

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, RaspK_FOG wrote:

> Anyhow, do you know where can I buy Malhavoc products without resorting

> to getting an abhorred credit card? I know it would make online orders

> possible, which is something I dream of, resorting to whatever other

> option there is, but I hate to have people on my neck and avoid the

> things if I can!



Most of their books are in print and available at game stores. Cry Havoc

is coming out in print in october I believe. Game stores love cash :)



--

Daniel McSorley

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----

From: "RaspK_FOG" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 5:58 PM





> Anyhow, do you know where can I buy Malhavoc products

> without resorting to getting an abhorred credit card?



Consider a bank debit card with a VISA logo. Many banks issue them now.

They work like checks as far as your account goes, but work like credit

cards as far as the vendor goes.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[RaspK_FOG]

Ahem... It seems I forgot to mention that I actually live in Greece. Now, aside the fact that just somewhere around the end of Spring several reporters said that RPGs were Satan&#39;s work to lure the children (we are talking about 8-year-olds who played Vampire, a gorry gothic horror RPG, of all RPGs in the world) in his embrace and such rubbish, RPG (lining up with anime) products are not exactly as popular with vendors as with people...

If you know of an agency that delivers RPG products abroad so that I can arrange anything (even an association&#33;) to deliver stuff in my country I would be grateful&#33; Is there anyone who knows such an agency/vendor/[whatever]?

[DanMcSorley]

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, RaspK_FOG wrote:

> Ahem... It seems I forgot to mention that I actually live in Greece.

> Now, aside the fact that just somewhere around the end of Spring several

> reporters said that RPGs were Satan`s work to lure the children (we are

> talking about 8-year-olds who played Vampire, a gorry gothic horror RPG,

> of all RPGs in the world) in his embrace and such rubbish, RPG (lining

> up with anime) products are not exactly as popular with vendors as with

> people...



That`s lovely. Did Greece have the anti-D&D phase the US did in the 80s?

If not, then those reporters are just a little behind :)



> If you know of an agency that delivers RPG products abroad so that I can

> arrange anything (even an association&#33;) to deliver stuff in my

> country I would be grateful&#33; Is there anyone who knows such an

> agency/vendor/[whatever]?



Mmm, that`s a tough one, I know very little about RPG sales in Greece,

heh. You might be able to catch a ferry to Italy and try there :)



Really, I`d try bookstores, Wizards and White Wolf (who does the print

versions of Malhavoc books I think) both go through major distributors, so

if you can find the ISBN of the book, you ought to be able to order it.



--

Daniel McSorley

[Osprey]

Check out Amazon.com - they have a pretty broad international sales base, I think.

[Mourn]

Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Sep 26 2003, 05:07 AM
Ahem... It seems I forgot to mention that I actually live in Greece. Now, aside the fact that just somewhere around the end of Spring several reporters said that RPGs were Satan&#39;s work to lure the children (we are talking about 8-year-olds who played Vampire, a gorry gothic horror RPG, of all RPGs in the world) in his embrace and such rubbish, RPG (lining up with anime) products are not exactly as popular with vendors as with people...

If you know of an agency that delivers RPG products abroad so that I can arrange anything (even an association&#33;) to deliver stuff in my country I would be grateful&#33; Is there anyone who knows such an agency/vendor/[whatever]?
Um. Vampire isn&#39;t gory.

[RaspK_FOG]

Thank you all for the information; I&#39;ll try to check it out, but assuring many of the hints I had been able to pick up till now was very helpful (and no, I meant if you knew any international agency, not a greek one ;) ).

Err, I don&#39;t know what&#39;s the picture you have from Vampire, Mourn, but if you were a 5-century-old mostly inhuman being who drunk blood and could not really depend on anything, I would assume you would, in the end, become a beast; surely magnificent, but always a beast. Not that there are not any interesting ideas I&#39;ve worked through, with good, humane vampires.
As for gore, Vampire: the Masquerade has a very nice picture where a vampire is missing half its ribcage and belly... From a grenade, nonetheless.

[Mourn]

Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Sep 27 2003, 02:12 AM
Thank you all for the information; I&#39;ll try to check it out, but assuring many of the hints I had been able to pick up till now was very helpful (and no, I meant if you knew any international agency, not a greek one ;) ).

Err, I don&#39;t know what&#39;s the picture you have from Vampire, Mourn, but if you were a 5-century-old mostly inhuman being who drunk blood and could not really depend on anything, I would assume you would, in the end, become a beast; surely magnificent, but always a beast. Not that there are not any interesting ideas I&#39;ve worked through, with good, humane vampires.
As for gore, Vampire: the Masquerade has a very nice picture where a vampire is missing half its ribcage and belly... From a grenade, nonetheless.
And I&#39;ve seen medical dictionaries with far worse. Vampire is not gory.

I&#39;ve been playing it since &#39;92, and I own every single supplement (including all the Black Dog books).

[RaspK_FOG]

Just like in all other things, I believe that what really matters is rendition...

[Rhylandor]

I recently have downloaded and printed a copy of the playtest and am getting some others interested. Some of my friends and I really liked the skirmish rules, and used to fight out large combats using them (comes from our strategy boardgame days).

I am writing up a set of basic and advanced skirmish rules for d20. Hopefully the advanced will allow you to customize your units as to what common feats you want them to train. Makes you think twice before you have the knights charge that pike unit. =)
Where should I submit these rules, and the, umm, corrections to typos in the playtest book?

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Rhylandor@Sep 22 2004, 04:35 AM
I recently have downloaded and printed a copy of the playtest and am getting some others interested. Some of my friends and I really liked the skirmish rules, and used to fight out large combats using them (comes from our strategy boardgame days).

I am writing up a set of basic and advanced skirmish rules for d20. Hopefully the advanced will allow you to customize your units as to what common feats you want them to train. Makes you think twice before you have the knights charge that pike unit. =)
Where should I submit these rules, and the, umm, corrections to typos in the playtest book?


Welcome.

Here is the thread for discussion on Chap 6.

http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2773

Every chapter has gotten it&#39;s own thread for discussion (with Word versions of the chapter {no pictures} to use for writting, etc.)

Only Chap 2 has been fully &#39;sanctioned&#39;, but Chap 1 is mostly &#39;sanctioned&#39;.

Check some of the other threads for related discussions. Osprey in particular had some interesting ideas on how units can gain experience.


A few of things to keep an eye on though.

While using any source for house-rules is perfectly acceptable, if posting them for use in public forums make sure that they are not derivative of non-OGC material.

It is the policy of the BRCS to not require any books other than the 3 core books (PHB, MM and DMG) in order to play.

The BRCS is being updated to 3.5 rules so ensure that is the current ruleset being used.

Check out the FAQ (pinned) topics for a discussion of the &#39;contract&#39; that is required for the "Official" fansite (i.e, this one for Birthright). There is some pretty specific things in there that WotC expects.

If you need to post your material as a download word/pdf document then you can e-mail it to me, Arjan, Osprey or Geeman and they can post it for you. Check the individual accounts for the appropriate e-mails.

[Rhylandor]

Well, I have no clue if parts are OGC or not. The plan was to write up the rules and run them by the folks here running the show. If you think they are not kosher, then I can make changes.

[tcharazazel]

If you want, you can check out the Battle system rules Osprey came up with here: Southern Alliance (http://home.earthlink.net/~birthright/id11.html) Under Battle System v1.3. Good for scrimishes and full on battles.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Rhylandor@Sep 22 2004, 05:27 PM
Well, I have no clue if parts are OGC or not. The plan was to write up the rules and run them by the folks here running the show. If you think they are not kosher, then I can make changes.
Check your source material.

They all have some statement in the front saying whether or not it is OGC/OGL.

Not everyone has access (or remembers) every d20 product that has been published. So if you can say what your material is based on, it helps a lot. It is assumed that most people know what they based their material on. If it wasn&#39;t self-created.

That is the major issue.

I have seen examples of people trying to use sections (almost in entirety) from material that specifically states it is not OGC/OGL and then try to pawn it off to a publisher as original.

Don&#39;t even want to get into the legal issues that may arrise with that if it is used in the BRCS. Could endanger the status of this site at the very least. :blink: