Errors

[teloft]

page 22
in the Noble's class skills
Administrate (Int),

page 23
Human Noble Starting Package
Administrate 4 (Int)

page 23
Skills:
Administrate (Wis)


My cous confusin whether the key ability for Administrate is Wis or Int !!!

:ph34r:

by the way, witch is it!! ?

[Osprey]

Administrate was always Intelligence-based (in the original BR game); the Wisdom base was likely a typo. Int makes sense as Admin. is mainly logistics, accounting, and other bookish skills.

[Kyrion]

A case can be made that Wisdom is common sense, which is needed to be a

good administrator. Being able to balance all the various needs is not

something that comes from Intelligence, although that helps a bit. Judgment

calls is what I think it`s talking about.



But that`s just me.



-Scott



At 06:19 PM 10/26/2003 +0100, you wrote:

>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=36&t=2043

>

> Osprey wrote:

> Administrate was always Intelligence-based (in the original BR game);

> the Wisdom base was likely a typo. Int makes sense as Admin. is mainly

> logistics, accounting, and other bookish skills.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>---

>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus Scanner]

[RaspK_FOG]

Well, that's why it is an Intelligence-based skill. Wisdom is the potential of one's mind of perceiving the patterns that come to be in everything (that's why a very wise person is generally humble, whether cynical or not), while Intelligence is the ability to work on your understanding (which is why very intelligent people can become awfully arrogant).

[ConjurerDragon]

Scott M. Baron schrieb:

> A case can be made that Wisdom is common sense, which is needed to be a

> good administrator. Being able to balance all the various needs is not

> something that comes from Intelligence, although that helps a bit. Judgment

> calls is what I think it`s talking about.

> But that`s just me.

> -Scott

>> Osprey wrote:

>> Administrate was always Intelligence-based (in the original BR game);

>> the Wisdom base was likely a typo. Int makes sense as Admin. is mainly

>> logistics, accounting, and other bookish skills.



There is the example of Intimidation: Normally a CHA based skill. But I

read somewhere that STR may be used also instead of CHA to intimidate.



Administration would best be used in the same way that either WIS OR INT

may be used, as both can be argued to be useful in administering.



At least in the civilized realms - perhaps in Vosgaard one uses STR to

get your employees working for lower wages? ;-)

bye

Michael

[irdeggman]

There are some varaints for using skills with different abilities, pg 33 of 3.5 DMG.

One that has popped up in discussion of the past is the Gather Information skill - normally a Cha one, but if the character is performing research in a library then it makes more sense to use Int.

Basically in the BRCS Admin was supposed to be INT based so listing Wis (in the BRCS) is an error. It should be noted in the above variants though, so a DM can choose to apply a different ability modifiet to the skill check in question depending on the situation.

[RaspK_FOG]

A common theme of making things go awry because of naming convessions... If you read carefully, you will notice that an exchange worth of a night and (I think, but not quite sure) 1 gp of giving people stuff is needed for Gather Information to work. That makes it more of an Inquire People skill, but most people don't care to read that level of detail (no offence meant). For the library example you mentioned, Irdeggman, there already is a skill which does the job: Search, which also is Intelligence-based!

[Osprey]

Another big one is the broad Perform skill. CHA is fine for the verbal and musical stuff (though you could definitely substitute DEX for many instruments), but for physical performances like Juggling and Dancing, DEX is far more appropriate. I ran into this recently when the PC's attended an Imperial Ball in the City of Anuire...many of them were making straight DEX checks (untrained Perform), though some of them later took some dancing lessons and a few ranks in Perform: Dance as a result of the experience! Heh heh, nothing like throwing PC's in a non-adventuring circumstance to make them appreciate those oft-overlooked skills like Perform, Profession: Courtier, Kn: Nobilty, etc. They learn the hard way sometimes...

I'm also frequently questiioning INT as the basis for the craft skill. Wouldn't Dexterity be the primary skill? Sure Int, Wis, and sometimes Str are all important (especially in smithing and stonework!), but I've always thought a craftsman's deft and sure hands were his most important feature.

[geeman]

At 02:09 AM 10/28/2003 +0100, Osprey wrote:



> Another big one is the broad Perform skill. CHA is fine for the verbal

> and musical stuff (though you could definitely substitute DEX for many

> instruments), but for physical performances like Juggling and Dancing,

> DEX is far more appropriate. I ran into this recently when the PC`s

> attended an Imperial Ball in the City of Anuire...many of them were

> making straight DEX checks (untrained Perform), though some of them later

> took some dancing lessons and a few ranks in Perform: Dance as a result

> of the experience! Heh heh, nothing like throwing PC`s in a

> non-adventuring circumstance to make them appreciate those oft-overlooked

> skills like Perform, Profession: Courtier, Kn: Nobilty, etc. They learn

> the hard way sometimes...



I think the problem is not with the broadness of the Perform skill, but in

its game mechanic. That is, performing earns one gp or influences

reactions. "Perform" as a skill is really different from just any

performance. In effect, one might be a performer by tumbling, by juggling,

walking a tightrope, etc. The Perform skill itself might be more limited

to things that may or may not actually earn one a living. That is, no one

throws coins to the nobles engaged in a courtly dance--at least, not if

they want to escape whipping--but that is one of the things that would be

appropriate to the perform skill.



In general, what I`m getting at is that the function of "performing" as in

putting on a show should be separate from the actual perform skill. There

are a good dozen skills that might be useful to putting on a show (and

getting access to the revenue function of the perform skill) while perform

itself might be more better described as a sort of broad, crowd influencing

diplomatic skill in that it shifts everyone`s attitude towards the

character. It could still be used to earn a living, like other skills, but

that`s not what should be in the actual skill description.



Gary

[RaspK_FOG]

Actually, Perform is only logical to be a Charisma-based check. Dancing, from my experience, is not dependent on how dexterous you are, but how well a show you can put on (believe me, I've been dancing for quite enough years). As for using different ability scores on some occasions, it has been given as an example in the DMG, but saying that Perform is wrongly done, I thing you are going a bit too far... Perform has always been used as an influencing tool as much as a money-bringing skill.

And yes, Craft is also given as an example for using Dexterity instead of Intelligence, but anyone can tell you that most crafting skills sre not a matter of dexterity as much as a matter of getting used to it. Most people don't understand that habbit and training is more important than sheer talent when it comes to becoming good at something. Talent is only the basis that will allow training to make the person flourish! I have quite the amount of experience from real life to be sure about that.

[Osprey]

And yes, Craft is also given as an example for using Dexterity instead of Intelligence, but anyone can tell you that most crafting skills sre not a matter of dexterity as much as a matter of getting used to it. Most people don't understand that habbit and training is more important than sheer talent when it comes to becoming good at something. Talent is only the basis that will allow training to make the person flourish! I have quite the amount of experience from real life to be sure about that.

Ranks measure practice and training, ability modifiers measuere talent. ranks will usually outweigh talent with skilled craftsmen, the question is which ability best measures the degree of natural talent.

[RaspK_FOG]

To make a long story short, there has also been (in the DMG, nonetheless) the suggestion of using Dexterity for Craft skills whenever the DM feels it is more a matter of intricate detail and such things, just like a DM can rule that in naturally occuring zero-gravity conditions Climb should be a Dexterity skill. My point is that you should better thing of the general application of the skill (for which the current ability assignments are OK in my humble opinion) and only assign different ones whenever you think it should be different. I can still remember the case where the wizard of our party insisted that wizards should have the Use Magic Device skill, and that it should be an Intelligence-based skill; what does this make you think of?