Racial Effects On Domain Action

[Raesene Andu]

Below are rules covering racial modifiers to domain actions that were cut from the original BRCS. As I use some of these in my pbem, I thought you all might find them useful.

Note: These are presented in the original form and haven't been edited to suit the final domain rules adapted in the BRCS.

Race
A province may also be defined by population type – dwarves, elves, and humans all affect their environment in different ways, and have very different ways of taming or using the land. This has a certain effect on the way their provinces are made up, as noted below.

Anuirean, Brecht and Khinasi provinces are assumed to be the norm; the rules apply normally to them in all ways.

Rjurik and Vos lands are on the frontiers of Cerilia, and most inhabitants must learn to fight at an early age to defend themselves from attackers. Because of this, provinces in these lands can raise irregular units as levies instead of normal levy units. Their locality, however, ensures that their population and development levels remain low and any Rule actions attempted in those regions have +2 to their DC.

Elven provinces are unique in that the elven people do not affect source potential as their population and development level increases. The elven people live in harmony with their surrounding and their provinces can be developed up to level 6 in any forest terrain without affecting the source potential of a province. However, the elven birth rate is much lower than other races, and any Rule actions aimed at increasing the province level have +8 to their DC. Also, due to the elven people’s naturally chaotic nature, Law holdings have no special bonus with regards to loyalty in elven provinces.

Dwarven provinces are built entirely underground, with few settlements or dwellings visible above the ground. In fact, the first construction most visitors to a dwarven province encounter are a set of great gates embedded in the side of a mountain. As such, a dwarven province can be developed up to level 7 in any mountainous terrain. They are considered fortified up to the province level at no additional expense. Dwarves are also master craftsmen, especially when working with stone and when taking the build action, they roll 1d8 in place of 1d6 for progress. Because of these skills, other races like to hire out dwarven craftsmen to speed up the construction of their own projects.
However, like the elves, dwarves have a low birth rate and suffer a +4 penalty to the DC of a Rule action aimed at increasing the province level.

Goblin provinces are violent and dangerous realms prone to frequent tribal conflicts. Most goblins learn to fight as soon as they can walk, and because of this the goblin people have a strong base of warriors to draw on for their armies. Goblin provinces can raise irregular units as levies in place of normal levy units. However, this chaotic nature also means that goblins are difficult to rule and control. Any Rule action aimed at increasing the level of a holding in a goblin province, with the exception of Source holdings, has a +2 to its DC.

Orog provinces are similar to those provinces under the control of their great enemies, the dwarves. Like the dwarven provinces, they are built underground and can be developed up to level 7 in any mountainous terrain. They are considered fortified up to the province level at no additional expense.

Gnolls control few provinces of their own, but those in their hands tend be even more dangerous that provinces in goblin kingdoms. Gnolls war constantly with each other, and with anyone else they can find. As a result of this, gnoll provinces can muster irregular, or marauder units in the place of normal levies. Gnolls are an even more chaotic race than the goblins and any Rule action aimed at increasing the level of any holding in a gnoll province, with the exception of Source holdings, has a penalty of +4 to its DC.

Awnshegh-held provinces are generally treated according to the dominant race of the province; however, in certain cases, special rules may apply, individual to each awnshegh.

Halfling-held provinces are treated the same as any human province in the same region.

[Osprey]

Wow, I really like all of these rules, practically without exception! I think it's a shame they didn't make it into the BRCS, and would love to see them added into the revised edition.

There's only 2 questions: one is, when you refer to irregulars instead of levies, I assume you mean regular-level Irregulars (as opposed to Green units).

With Dwarves and Build: since the Build action in the BRCS was 1d4 GB per action, would dwarves by these rules be 1d6 or even 2d3 per action instead? Or simply 1d4+1 might work pretty well, too (as the Stonecunning racial trait is only a +2 skill modifier, after all...). Plus the BRCS rule that Master Engineers can maximize Build actions (a rule I like, all in all) also gives dwarves a good chance of REALLY fast construction if the die type is high...

But overall, excellent job...

[teloft]

what about Gnolls eating the fiona and the flora equally, so there population dont have to cultuvate the land in order to populate it.

So in efect thay could use source holdings in stead of provience holding for thet pop ???

:ph34r:

[lordofallandnothing]

i have always liked the rules for underground provinces that i have seen on the net is why i like the dwarves so much they know how to build a good defensive structure while keeping it in the budget :)

[Osprey]

what about Gnolls eating the fiona and the flora equally, so there population dont have to cultuvate the land in order to populate it.

So in efect thay could use source holdings in stead of provience holding for thet pop ??

Check out the rules on Tribal units in the War section of the BRCS. They are based on the province's source rating. The source rating equals the active maintenance in GB of tribal units that can live off the land. Raesene's rules would apply to those provinces more formally organized under non-human regents.

[teloft]

I dint remeber thet one. :) its a must have.

:ph34r:

[Raesene Andu]

Wow, I really like all of these rules, practically without exception! I think it's a shame they didn't make it into the BRCS, and would love to see them added into the revised edition.

There's only 2 questions: one is, when you refer to irregulars instead of levies, I assume you mean regular-level Irregulars (as opposed to Green units).

Yes. The war rules weren't complete when chapter 5 was being worked on, and as this part of the rules didn't make it into the playtest document, they weren't checked against the rest of the BRCS.


With Dwarves and Build: since the Build action in the BRCS was 1d4 GB per action, would dwarves by these rules be 1d6 or even 2d3 per action instead? Or simply 1d4+1 might work pretty well, too (as the Stonecunning racial trait is only a +2 skill modifier, after all...). Plus the BRCS rule that Master Engineers can maximize Build actions (a rule I like, all in all) also gives dwarves a good chance of REALLY fast construction if the die type is high...

It should be 1d6. Again, as I mentioned above these rules were never finialised. In the original draft of the domain rules, the build action was 1d6 per round (same as original rules), but this was lowered to 1d4 to better balance the action.

[Raesene Andu]

Looking at the rules themselves, is everyone happy with the +8 to DC for elves trying to rule provinces?

With all the bonuses possible, I tried to make it difficult, but not impossible to rule a level 5 province to level 6. So if you are an elven regent with Master Administrator Feat (+2 to certain actions), 15+ skill ranks in administrate (+3 to roll) , Regent Focus (rule province), and maximum loyalty (+1). Then the action is still fairly possible.

So to rule a level 5 province to level 6, the DC is 10+5+8 = 23, and this is then modified to 13 if the regent has all the feats, skills, etc I mentioned, well within the realms of possibility, but still not overly easly.

[Osprey]

With all the bonuses possible, I tried to make it difficult, but not impossible to rule a level 5 province to level 6. So if you are an elven regent with Master Administrator Feat (+2 to certain actions), 15+ skill ranks in administrate (+3 to roll) , Regent Focus (rule province), and maximum loyalty (+1). Then the action is still fairly possible.

So to rule a level 5 province to level 6, the DC is 10+5+8 = 23, and this is then modified to 13 if the regent has all the feats, skills, etc I mentioned, well within the realms of possibility, but still not overly easly.


My only hangup is that I don't favor the idea of elven regents being Master Administrators and focused on Rule Province...the former especially is a very lawful kind of feat, one built on logistics, organization, and other very un-elven characteristics.

It also depends on the final form of those feats...will Master Administrator still directly add +2 to all Administrate-based domain actions? Will Regent Focus still grant a +4 or will it be lowered to +3? The latter especially seems more in-line with 3.5.

If any of the above things are taken into consideration, I think something like +6 to Rule Province might be more appropriate. Especially if we threw in a limitation of once per year or even less as to how often the Rule Province action might be attempted.

[The Jew]

Elven should also granted the scout special training for free. Right now it is required for all their units and yet it provides substantial negatives besides the benefits.

Currently the combination of no temples, unlikely to have trade routes, and now possibly a +8 (or even +6) are significantly greater penalties than the benefit of being able to rule up provinces to level 6 without affecting the source potential.

[Raesene Andu]

The exact benifits of master administrator and regent focus still have to be decided, but will probably go with +3 for the later. I've always thought the +4 was a little high.

As for what races can get what feats, the BRCS has a small section on regional feats that are tied to a particular region or race. Master Administrator wasn't one of these, although I'd consider changing that if enough people thought it necessary. Elves are already restricted from a lot of feats though (assuming you use the region feat rules).

Regional feats: Conqueror (Anuire, Vos), Discipline (Anuire, Dwarf), Dwarven Artisan (Dwarf), Elven Artisan (Elf), Forestdweller (Rjurik, Elf), Hardiness (Rjurik, Vos, Dwarf), Highlander (Rjurik, Vos), Inscribe War Tattoo (Vos), Master Diplomat (Anuire, Brechtür, Khinasi), Master Merchant (Brechtür, Khinasi), Mounted Archery (Khinasi, Elf), Northerner (Rjurik, Vos), Plainsrider (Khinasi), Seafarer (Brechtür, Khinasi), Spirited Charge (Anuire), Two Weapon Defense (Brechtür)

[teloft]

I remember there begin a counter on how many times a faild atemt had been maid on a rule provience, and thet counter would be added on the next roll.

I could also think of this as a asist check, where you wount increas the counter unless you roll a natural 10 or higer on your roll but still fail.

not sure. this has perhaps been droped becous of to much book keeping.

but then there could be a rule stating thet if the land chanses hands this bonus would be droped.

or if some other harmfull evenst would hapen, as a volcanic eruption, an invation, pirate attack, or some large unbalance taking away any efort maid so far.

lowering the prov lv would ofcours reset the counter.

or what ever is the most siple. :)

then elves would not need to be master administrators in order to be able to rule up proviances.

:ph34r:

[ConjurerDragon]

Raesene Andu schrieb:

> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=36&t=2047

>

> Raesene Andu wrote:

>...

> As for what races can get what feats, the BRCS has a small section on regional feats that

are tied to a particular region or race. Master Administrator wasn`t

one of these, although

I`d consider changing that if enough people thought it necessary.

Elves are already restricted

from a lot of feats though (assuming you use the region feat rules).

> Regional feats: Conqueror (Anuire, Vos), Discipline (Anuire, Dwarf), Dwarven Artisan (Dwarf),

Elven Artisan (Elf), Forestdweller (Rjurik, Elf), Hardiness (Rjurik,

Vos, Dwarf), Highlander

(Rjurik, Vos), Inscribe War Tattoo (Vos), Master Diplomat (Anuire,

Brechtür, Khinasi), Master

Merchant (Brechtür, Khinasi), Mounted Archery (Khinasi, Elf), Northerner

(Rjurik, Vos),

Plainsrider (Khinasi), Seafarer (Brechtür, Khinasi), Spirited Charge

(Anuire), Two Weapon

Defense (Brechtür)



I always wondered why Elves should have access to mounted archery. For

example in The Iron Throne is is stated several times that sidhelien can

pass through forests on foot as fast as mounted, so they would have no

need of horses (at least those in Tuarhievel).

And they face the problem to feed large numbers of horses for whole

mounted units when they don´t work the land and plant oats. Are there so

many places to graze n ancient forests as compared to the plains of Khinasi?

bye

Michael

[RaspK_FOG]

I see Mounted Archery being open to the Sidhelien in the sense that they can let arrows loose on horseback as easilly as if they had their feet on the ground - or on top of a small tree-top balkony, for that...

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----

From: "Michael Romes" <Archmage@T-ONLINE.DE>

Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:53 AM



> I always wondered why Elves should have access to mounted archery.

> For example in The Iron Throne is is stated several times that sidhelien

> can pass through forests on foot as fast as mounted, so they would have

> no need of horses (at least those in Tuarhievel).



I don`t think the elven mounts are neccesarily horses as human might ride.

There are stories of the fey which involve horses which appear to be

fey-touched or otherwise fey themselves. Such sidhe mounts might be adapted

to eating leaves or nuts rather than grasses, and capable therby (like deer

or swine) of restoring their forest soils with their manure. Its also

possible that such creatures would have other fey attributes. Fey stories

often involve human-animal bonding by means of fey magic. Given the

Arthurian influence on paladins, its quite possible that the paladin`s mount

has some of this quality as well. Perhaps the sidhe make a call and horses

from nearby grasslands answer the call. The possibilities here are

consisderable.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[geeman]

Kenneth Gauck writes:



> Given the Arthurian influence on paladins, its quite possible

> that the paladin`s mount has some of this quality as well.

> Perhaps the sidhe make a call and horses from nearby grasslands

> answer the call. The possibilities here are consisderable.



It would have some parity with the new, 3.5 version of the paladin if the

mounts that elves ride are summoned, magical creatures rather than mundane

animals. Personally, I find that explanation more plausible for BR elves

than for typical paladin`s for whom the summoned mount thing is a bit goofy.



Gary

[RaspK_FOG]

"Goofy"? :lol: Well, the idea of making the mount a summoned creature really has two valid points:


The fact a paladin does not lose XP when the mount is killed (many would argue that a killed animal companion does not cost XP to its humane companion).
I find it more proper "calling" for a magical beast to become your faithful special mount than searching for the most appropriate and suitable animal to you in stables all around. :blink:

[geeman]

RaspK_FOG writes:



> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=36&t=2047

>

> RaspK_FOG wrote:

> "Goofy"? :lol: Well, the idea of making the mount a summoned creature really has two valid points:

>

>

> The fact a paladin does not lose XP when the mount is killed (many would argue that a killed animal companion does not cost XP to its humane companion).

> I find it more proper "calling" for a magical beast to become your faithful special mount than searching for the most appropriate and suitable animal to you in stables all around. :blink:

>



Well, I grant you that it does have a kind of "Hi-ho, Silver! Away!" kind

of vibe... Personally, I find it a bit silly, though. A summoned mount

that vanishes (is there a little cartoonish "poof!" to accompany that

disappearance) strikes me as much less proper than searching for a suitable

animal. Asidefromwhich, I`ve had much fun playing out the quests/deeds that

paladins had to accomplish in order to earn their mount.



One of the players in my group pointed out that the rules describing the

mount`s disappearance and reappeance with all equipment could wind up making

the paladin`s warhorse a sort of transdimentional pack animal of great

capacity. Load the thing up as much treasure as one likes, send it off to

where ever it comes from, ride to town on a light, unencumbered horse,

summon paladin`s warhorse, unload. That`s a rather goofy byproduct of the

new version of the mount....



Gary

[RaspK_FOG]

I have to agree that some of the quests would become very interesting. What you really are most correct about is the goofiness of it being summoned in the first place, but whatever...

[teloft]

a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides.



sould it not have the teplet &#39;celestial&#39; &#33;&#33; And be unable to be summond, for there is no acsess to the celestial realms from Birthrigth. &#33;&#33;



I do play a paladin in Birthrigth.

As I play it:
my mount will not apear until 1d4*10 min afther I call it. and it comse running. but if Im fx by a river, it migth be on the other side, or some inconviniences like thet.

But my mount has a nother ability, thet is it senses when the need is the most. and will be on the rigth side of the river, only few rounds away.

Im a paladin of Cuiraécen. And I figurde thet My mout was chosen for my by the stormlord.

So I went asking my DM

- whad kind of horses rome the Feasthalls hill ?


Cuiraécen (Cuiraécen’s Feasthall): Cuiraécen’s realm is a
gigantic hall that sits atop of a steep sided hill, surrounded by
storm clouds. Here great warriors celebrate their success in
battle and forever recount the great events of their lives. The
hall is home to a continuous feast where warriors may forever
enjoy the spoils of the victory.

:ph34r:

________________variant__________________________

Or perhaps the spesial mount was Reincarnated spirit from the Feasthalls brougth here to aid the paladin as a mount.

It will be funny, when the horse is telling the paladin talse of his past life as a fearsom warrior, Then the Mount can acsuly have lodse of usefull knowledge readily awailable to the paladin, if he is willing to tell. it can also lead to fearsome arguments about what is good and what is not. and the horse migth even refuse to do what would lead the paladin to act agenst his god.

...

:ph34r:

[OsricIlien]

I think limiting the amount of times in a particular period an Elven Regent can rule province is as appropriate as giving them a small penalty for attempting it. Another possibility is a limit on province level. The elves may be strong but they would have trouble building their numbers up to a large amount. Elves as a culture (at least in Cerilia) are not very cohesive and a large city of them would be a very odd sight.
The Former Osric Ilien
-Bloooood&#33;

[teloft]

heres a thougth.

if we put a counter on rule provience, thet you add to your die roll with everything else you migth have, agenst a wery hig DC based on the race populaiting the prov. then if we like a lower DC, we can always import a difrent race. :)


But what I would like to see is somehow a difrence betvine

A: a non-province land, (sutable for the create province action)
B: province with only source holdings
C: tribse living of Source versus, nomansland

IM mostly thinking this for the PHP script Im writing.

how would create province afect the land.

Im also thinking of a variant where there are difrent typse of provience acording to race/purpuse.

...

Im off to bed :ph34r:

[Osprey]

There&#39;s a good point in there:

Can a source regent use the source of an area that hasn&#39;t been "created" as if it were a Level 0 province? I would think so...

This makes the whole Create Province action a beast of a different color when we look at it in this light. To the mage or druid, such lands are all level 0 provinces with maximum source potential. Create Province is really there for landed regents who need to define the political boundaries of an area before they start imposing rulership upon it.

[The Jew]

Originally posted by Osprey@Nov 1 2003, 06:51 PM

This makes the whole Create Province action a beast of a different color when we look at it in this light. To the mage or druid, such lands are all level 0 provinces with maximum source potential. Create Province is really there for landed regents who need to define the political boundaries of an area before they start imposing rulership upon it.
If it is a forest province and unclaimed by any regent, then maybe it would have a level 9 source potential, like if it was under the care of elves. It would be a truly pristine area unblemished by any connection to humanoids.

[RaspK_FOG]

Seems good to me... B)

[teloft]

well, if it arnt a province,

lets say, there is civilization present, even more then the common tribse, lets say if unblooded people settle and build a city. but noone has spent an action to &#39;create province&#39; and defind the boundry.

in terms this sould be land of lesser source potential. &#33;&#33;

:ph34r:

[The Jew]

You are correct teloft, it would have to be both unclaimed and have a province level of 0.

[teloft]

How can something have province level
if it is unclaimed

thet is dos not have bounderys

or is not a provience

or has not been maid into a provience with the &#39;create provience action&#39;

:ph34r:

[The Jew]

It seems to me like a civilization should be able to exist without, without their being bloodlines. Someone could occupy an area either through troops or with law holdings and collect taxes, just not regency. This area would have a province level and act as a political and economic unit, but would not be a province in the birthright sense of being mystically owned by a blooded regent.

[teloft]

Or for a human settlment to work propperly
the land must fyrst be broken
by the hand of god

or somone as powerfull, like the regent
thet has the essence of god within him.

Or the create prov, is a GB action,

it creates a small local court
where mater of settlements are handled.

maters like, how much sould the head of this family pay the head of the other family, for the son of the fyrst family killed a son of the second family. and petty maters like thet. the court of the people.

thees courts funktion as a bridge betvine the tribes and the settlements.

...

One could rule thet difrent races usualy have so difrent way of cultuvating the land, thet a provience of humans needs fyrst to be totaly destroyed and uncreated in order for elves to clame there land as there own, and create a elven prov.

creating an elven prov usualy takse long time, where the elves have to rearange the forrests, or grow them. and use magic to align them with there nature. in order to coexsist with the wild life, and gaining regeneration when in thet forrest.

while dwarfen regions can be under ground, thay still need the food from above the ground. thay could if willing alow somone else to rule the fields but would invade if somone would cut there food suply, reclaming there fields.

Halfling Province is something of the shadow world. and it is mistery how one thing like thet would look like here.

the raceial type of province is not realy conected to the race itselfe, but rather there way of life. well, some races can have difrent ways of life, like elfs, begin imune to time and so.

...

:ph34r:

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----

From: "The Jew" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 10:04 PM



> It seems to me like a civilization should be able to exist without,

> without their being bloodlines.



It is totally possible to use the BR system to represent other forms of

legitimacy. However governments argue for their legitimacy, ultimatly they

must make such a case. In a game setting one`s ability to command political

authority will ultimatly be reduced so a score which will function very much

like the blood score.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com