holdings

[Harri Kemppainen]

On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 breye@earthlink.net wrote:

> It seems to me that trade routes produce a LOT of Gold Bars, (and a lot
> of RP for thief regents). I have a thief regent in my campaign and he
> is raking it in by the bushel. Is there something I'm missing?

There are several limiting factors to trade routes.
First province level. You can have only one, two or three trede routes
depending on province level.

province level number of trade routes
1-3 1
4-6 2
7- 3

Second Province terrain type. You can only make trade routes between
different type terrains. Ports are only exeption.

Third roads. There has to be a road between provinces. There were no roads
out of players domains when we started. Players had to build them first to
be able to create trade routes. Roads are of course easy way for invasion
army to walk in, so some fortification may be needed.

Fourth holdings. I haven't found out if holding is needed on both ends of
trade route, so I ruled that there has to be. Most provinces are plains
so to be able to make trade route regant has to have holdings in
different terrain types. Usually domains are only one terrain type so
regent has to have quite a many holdings and in different realms.

Fifth friendly relations. It's very hard run trade routes through waring
or even hostile nation. And anyway other regents might want their share
of profitable bussiness which goes through their lands.


It's possible to still build big incomes as thief regent but it takes time
effort and resources.


- ---
cshake@kastanja.uta.fi

[breye@earthlink.ne]

It seems to me that trade routes produce a LOT of Gold Bars, (and a lot
of RP for thief regents). I have a thief regent in my campaign and he
is raking it in by the bushel. Is there something I'm missing?

It also seems that the Upkeep cost is messed up, the chart extends to
over 100 and provides extention rules for domains at more than 100, but
the rules are specific in saying that these are in NUMBER of holdings
and provinces, not in total levels of all holdings and provinces.
However I don't think that anyone would ever have over 100 holdings, so
in my campaign, I use total levels of all holdings and provinces.

Bryan

[Robin Cantin]

From Bryan:
>It seems to me that trade routes produce a LOT of Gold Bars, (and a lot
>of RP for thief regents). I have a thief regent in my campaign and he
>is raking it in by the bushel. Is there something I'm missing?

I'm afraid you do understand the rules properly, and your thief player does
too. But there are ways you can use to avoid being stuck with a regent that
can literally buy everything in sight. Here are a few that work or might
work in the campaing I'm in:

- - The RPs from trade routes should be included in the domain power, so that
the bloodline score is the absolute limit to RPs gained per turn (aside
from vassalage).

- - Apply collection by every law holding, all the time. It's the law
holder's previlege to do so, why give the guilder a free lunch?

- - Realm regents can cut trade routes by decree, if their law holding's high
enough. Have them use this to negociate their share of the route's profits.
"You'll have to pay me a third of the profits for caravan protection".
Don't forget that if the route crosses domain boundaries, more than one
regent could ask for their share.

- - If you use sea trade routes, get your hands on the Cities of the Sun box.
It explains that sea trade routes need ships to exist. Ships cost money
both to build and to maintain.

- - Since there's so much money to be made with guilds, everyone will want to
have some, even non-thieves. As the market's limited, guilds should
continually have their holdings contested by other guilds, as well as by
newcomers in the business. Notably mages, since their holdings (sources)
are the only ones that don't generate any regular income by themselves.
That should keep your player from having too many guild holdings.

- - Someone who has money atracks attention from weird people sometimes. Like
people who would kidnap family members and lieutenants to ransom them... in
gold bars! In the real world, rich people often spend fortunes on
protecting people close to them (I just read Sharon Stone hired a bodyguard
for her sister; some stars have their pets walked by armed men). So you
drain money from the guilder first by ransom, then by hireing bodyguards.

Of course, one alternative is to play a late-renaissance-style setting,
where the guilders gradually gain power at the expanse of the nobles,
leading the way to a free market economy and global domination. The next
bloke to put his buns on the Iron Throne could be... Chairman ;) of a
corporation.

>It also seems that the Upkeep cost is messed up, the chart extends to
>over 100 and provides extention rules for domains at more than 100, but
>the rules are specific in saying that these are in NUMBER of holdings
>and provinces, not in total levels of all holdings and provinces.
>However I don't think that anyone would ever have over 100 holdings, so
>in my campaign, I use total levels of all holdings and provinces.

Well, it's theorically possible to have 100 holdings (someone big who
really doesn't want to have vassals...), but I've heard a TSR designer said
on this list (I missed it) one must add holding levels, just like you do. I
think it makes domains like Ilien almost impossible to manage for anyone
but a guilder, however.

Robin


Webmaster of the Direct Democracy Pages
http://www.oricom.ca/~rcantin/AIntro.html
Les Pages Democratie Directe
http://www.oricom.ca/~rcantin/Introduction.html

[breye@earthlink.ne]

> > Harri Kemppainen wrote:

> > Fourth holdings. I haven't found out if holding is needed on both
> > ends of trade route, so I ruled that there has to be.

It's in there somewhere, non-port trade routes need to have a guild
holding at each end.

Paul Lefebvre wrote:

> Who exactly profits from a trade route?? I'm assuming that someone
> on the opposite end has to make money out of it. Or is it more
> abstract and the only one who makes money is the regent who is opening
> up that trade route?

The regent who creates the trade route makes the money, but the ruler of
the domains that it is in can make requests for their slice of the pie.

Steaking of trade routes, I also add the number of trade routes to the
holdings when calculating domain upkeep (ya gotta spend money to make
money they say), this adds about one gold bar for every 3 or 4 trade
routes (on average).

Something that I did toy with was the idea that after calculating the
value of a particular trade route for example one from Illien (7/0) to
Braeme (3/2) GB value 5, you then use that number and round up to the
nearest die type (d6) and roll that die each turn to determine what
the regent actually makes. I didn't actually use this rule (yet), but
I have strongly considered it.

Bry