Magic levels

[Harri Kemppainen]

On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Chrys murphy wrote:

> Brian Stoner wrote:
>
> I have always assumed (in my game at least) that Humans had no knowledge of
> Wizardly Magic until they first encountered the Elves (This is assuming there
> were Elves in Aduria & goes back many many years into pre-deismaar history).
> The early peaceful meetings led to the Elves trying to teach this new people to
> use Magic & finding that they lacked the "Link to the Land" necessary to use
> the higher Magics. Thus, before Deismaar there were only Human Magicians,
> capable of learning & using the "Lesser Magics".Deismaar changed all that,
> suddenly blooded Humans could access the higher or "True" Magics formerly
> accessible to the Elves only. With this advantage gone, the Elves rapidly lost
> ground to Humans who now wielded the full force of both Priestly and Wizardly
> magic.

This would be my ruling too. There is maybe a small problem though,
blooded elven mages. As they have access to magic by connection to land
they have it also by bloodline. One answer could be that elves have never
bothered to master casting by bloodline. Anyway are these two
ways of casting cumulative, overlapping or noncumulative. Cumulative could
mean that spell effects would be doubled. Overlapping could mean that
there would be some increase in spell effect and noncumulative does not
give any increase.
There is also sort of panteistic answer to this problem. universe it self
is divine and elves are so attuned to land that they gain a bloodline from
land. That would explain also why elves don't believe in gods.

- ---
Harri Kemppainen cshake@kastanja.uta.fi
Java-programmer Attila B288b
Information Studies, University of Tampere +358 3 215 7632

[dsolie]

Espen A. Johnsen wrote:
>
> I was just woundering, the human wizards that lived before deismaar,
> could they cast only Illution & Divination spells ( Above 2 lvl. ) or was this
> something that happened after Deismaar? This would have been a traumatic
> experience ( if he survived ) for a wizard, just waking up one day and trying to
> cast a Fireball and nothing happened.....What do you think?????
>
> Espen Johnsen
I think that most of the high level mages were at Deismaar. Thus, only
some found out they couldn't memorize the high end (3rd or higher)
spells. They still could cast the ones in their memory though....

Also this is not a problem in any of my campaigns outside Cerilia,
because all the mages are elves, none are human. So when they come,
they can't use Realm or True magic, but they can still cast 3rd or
better spells...

[Sepsis]

At 12:17 PM 10/9/97 +0200, Espen Johnsen(iu103@brems.ii.uib.no)wrote:
>
> I was just woundering, the human wizards that lived before deismaar,
>could they cast only Illution & Divination spells ( Above 2 lvl. ) or was
this
>something that happened after Deismaar? This would have been a traumatic
>experience ( if he survived ) for a wizard, just waking up one day and
trying to
>cast a Fireball and nothing happened.....What do you think?????
>

I don't think this fact is approached in any of the source material, so I
always went with Human magic being the same as a "standard" AD&D world
until the blast at Deismaar. When the fabric of magical forces were turned
inside out. I believe that before Deismaar there were very few Human Mages.
That may or may not be official, but it is how I see it. Humans had
Priests, the Elves had all the magic. Now again this may not be official,
but its the way I interpreted what I read from the books. Of course that
doesn't mean there weren't a few Human Mages running around anyway. IMC,
they were all Specialists of one type or another, no General Wizards. As
this is all ancient history it has little effect on the present(except for
the occasional discovery of a lost Spellbook from the past), but I did
center an adventure around a Chronomancer, from long before Deismaar, who
found himself trapped in the "present." Most of his magical ability was
lost, and his time-traveling spells were rendered worthless because a
crucial component(a rare orchid)was now extinct on Cerilia.


Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net (ICQ:3777956)

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html

[Brian Stoner]

Sepsis wrote:

> At 12:17 PM 10/9/97 +0200, Espen Johnsen(iu103@brems.ii.uib.no)wrote:
> >
> > I was just woundering, the human wizards that lived before
> deismaar,
> >could they cast only Illution & Divination spells ( Above 2 lvl. ) or
> was
> this
> >something that happened after Deismaar? This would have been a
> traumatic
> >experience ( if he survived ) for a wizard, just waking up one day
> and
> trying to
> >cast a Fireball and nothing happened.....What do you think?????
> >
>
> I don't think this fact is approached in any of the source material,
> so I
> always went with Human magic being the same as a "standard" AD&D world
>
> until the blast at Deismaar. When the fabric of magical forces were
> turned
> inside out. I believe that before Deismaar there were very few Human
> Mages.
> That may or may not be official, but it is how I see it. Humans had
> Priests, the Elves had all the magic. Now again this may not be
> official,
> but its the way I interpreted what I read from the books. Of course
> that
> doesn't mean there weren't a few Human Mages running around anyway.
> IMC,
> they were all Specialists of one type or another, no General Wizards.
> As
> this is all ancient history it has little effect on the present(except
> for
> the occasional discovery of a lost Spellbook from the past), but I did
>
> center an adventure around a Chronomancer, from long before Deismaar,
> who
> found himself trapped in the "present." Most of his magical ability
> was
> lost, and his time-traveling spells were rendered worthless because a
> crucial component(a rare orchid)was now extinct on Cerilia.
>
> Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net (ICQ:3777956)
>

The way I've always looked at all this, before Deismaar humans could
only be Magicians. After Deismaar, those with bloodlines received the
ability to cast spells like the Elves always could. Similar to the way
Elves don't have access to priestly spells...

Brian

[Chrys murphy]

Brian Stoner wrote:

> Sepsis wrote:
>
> > At 12:17 PM 10/9/97 +0200, Espen Johnsen(iu103@brems.ii.uib.no)wrote:
> > >
> > > I was just woundering, the human wizards that lived before
> > deismaar,
> > >could they cast only Illution & Divination spells ( Above 2 lvl. ) or
> > was
> > this
> > >something that happened after Deismaar? This would have been a
> > traumatic
> > >experience ( if he survived ) for a wizard, just waking up one day
> > and
> > trying to
> > >cast a Fireball and nothing happened.....What do you think?????
> > >
> >
> > I don't think this fact is approached in any of the source material,
> > so I
> > always went with Human magic being the same as a "standard" AD&D world
> >
> > until the blast at Deismaar. When the fabric of magical forces were
> > turned
> > inside out. I believe that before Deismaar there were very few Human
> > Mages.
> > That may or may not be official, but it is how I see it. Humans had
> > Priests, the Elves had all the magic. Now again this may not be
> > official,
> > but its the way I interpreted what I read from the books. Of course
> > that
> > doesn't mean there weren't a few Human Mages running around anyway.
> > IMC,
> > they were all Specialists of one type or another, no General Wizards.
> > As
> > this is all ancient history it has little effect on the present(except
> > for
> > the occasional discovery of a lost Spellbook from the past), but I did
> >
> > center an adventure around a Chronomancer, from long before Deismaar,
> > who
> > found himself trapped in the "present." Most of his magical ability
> > was
> > lost, and his time-traveling spells were rendered worthless because a
> > crucial component(a rare orchid)was now extinct on Cerilia.
> >
> > Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net (ICQ:3777956)
> >
>
> The way I've always looked at all this, before Deismaar humans could
> only be Magicians. After Deismaar, those with bloodlines received the
> ability to cast spells like the Elves always could. Similar to the way
> Elves don't have access to priestly spells...
>

I have always assumed (in my game at least) that Humans had no knowledge of
Wizardly Magic until they first encountered the Elves (This is assuming there
were Elves in Aduria & goes back many many years into pre-deismaar history).
The early peaceful meetings led to the Elves trying to teach this new people to
use Magic & finding that they lacked the "Link to the Land" necessary to use
the higher Magics. Thus, before Deismaar there were only Human Magicians,
capable of learning & using the "Lesser Magics".Deismaar changed all that,
suddenly blooded Humans could access the higher or "True" Magics formerly
accessible to the Elves only. With this advantage gone, the Elves rapidly lost
ground to Humans who now wielded the full force of both Priestly and Wizardly
magic.

[Jan P. M. Arnoldus]

> On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Chrys murphy wrote:
> > Brian Stoner wrote:
> >
> > I have always assumed (in my game at least) that Humans had no
> knowledge of
> > Wizardly Magic until they first encountered the Elves (This is
> assuming there
> > were Elves in Aduria & goes back many many years into pre-deismaar
> history).
> > The early peaceful meetings led to the Elves trying to teach this
> new people to
> > use Magic & finding that they lacked the "Link to the Land"
> necessary to use
> > the higher Magics. Thus, before Deismaar there were only Human
> Magicians,
> > capable of learning & using the "Lesser Magics".Deismaar changed all
> that,
> > suddenly blooded Humans could access the higher or "True" Magics
> formerly
> > accessible to the Elves only. With this advantage gone, the Elves
> rapidly lost
> > ground to Humans who now wielded the full force of both Priestly and
> Wizardly
> > magic.

I don't remember where (probably the Atlas of Cerillia) but is was
explained in the
campaign setting that Ruornil (yes the god of magic) thought the humans
to cast magic.
The tribe that followed him however were the Vos. When everybody fled
Aduria the
Vos came to the most inhospitable terrain of Cerillia, in order to
survive they focussed more on might of arms and strength of sword and
lost faith in Ruornil.
Thus the humans first learned magic from Ruornil, but most later forgot
or the knowledge was lost. There could ofcourse still be Vos sects
faithful to Ruornil hidden in the Heartless Wastes (mages 20+).

Jan Arnoldus

[Darkstar]

Brian Stoner wrote:


> The way I've always looked at all this, before Deismaar humans could
> only be Magicians. After Deismaar, those with bloodlines received the
> ability to cast spells like the Elves always could. Similar to the way
> Elves don't have access to priestly spells...

This is the way I have always thought of it too. In fact for my Adurian
empire that I am creating there will only be magicians and priests for
the most part, and only in two realms will ture magic exist.
I have always thought that before they came to Cerilia human did not
know true magic, and learned it from the Elves who because of their
connection with the land were able to become wizards. After Diesmaar
blooded humans gained the connection they needed with the land and so
could also cast true magic.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/birth.html

From the Darkness we came,
and to the Darkness we will return.

[Darkstar]

Jan P. M. Arnoldus wrote:

> I don't remember where (probably the Atlas of Cerillia) but is was
> explained in the
> campaign setting that Ruornil (yes the god of magic) thought the humans
> to cast magic.
> The tribe that followed him however were the Vos. When everybody fled
> Aduria the
> Vos came to the most inhospitable terrain of Cerillia, in order to
> survive they focussed more on might of arms and strength of sword and
> lost faith in Ruornil.
> Thus the humans first learned magic from Ruornil, but most later forgot
> or the knowledge was lost. There could ofcourse still be Vos sects
> faithful to Ruornil hidden in the Heartless Wastes (mages 20+).

Rournil is the new god of magic, and from what I can remember the Vos
were originally powerful Diviners and Illusionist, but they lost these
skills in their new homeland. I do not remember anything about either
them or the other tribes casting true magic.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/birth.html

From the Darkness we came,
and to the Darkness we will return.

[Taragin@sprintmail.co]

I'd just like to make a few points about elven magic. In the book 'The
Iron Throne,' the elven mage Gylvain casts a spell that greatly
resembles the spell 'needlestorm' from the Complete Druid's Handbook.
All throughout the BR books, it is constantly mentioned that elven and
human magic is different. In my campain, the elves cast spells from all
the elemental schools (earth, air, etc.) and also have access to the
priest spheres of plant and animal (as described in the Player's Options
books), while humans are restricted to the schools of philosophy
(alteration, necromancy, etc.). Also, true mages with the blood of Azrai
are allowed to specialize in Shadow Magic.
Also, just because any elf (blooded or not) can cast true magic, they
must still have a bloodline and control a source to cast realm spells.
- --
Alexander

“There is no dilemma that cannot be solved by a disciplined Cardassian
mind.” - Gul Dukat