About elven players

[Bearcat]

>> I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
>>with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
>>getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
>>old. What do I do?
>
>Find a way to kill them and do so ruthlessly

Now that we are on the topic of killing off a bunch of super-elves I
will throw in my two GBs. Remember how a while ago I wrote about elementals
in Birthright? (If you don't have the post it is on my web page). Well,
according to those rules a scion with the elemental control BA must find a
pool of elven soul stuff to create an elemental. Normally these pools are
difficult to find.

However, a cruel, evil, dastardly (etc), human (soon to be awnshegh)
wizard has discovered a method to drain some of the elemental energy from a
living elf, namely one element (1/4 of an elf soul). The only problem is
that he lives in human lands and there are no elves around :(

Or are there? The party of super elves come to his attention quite
naturaly ("What? Elves in human lands? They are the perfect subjects for my
cruel, evil, dastardly (etc.) expirament!").

Anyway, after a long adventure(ie. fill in the blank) the elves are
captured and taken to the wizard's tower where he sucks out part of their souls.
What happens to the poor sods? Well, I believe a system shock is in order.
If they fail their souls decompose (god I love saying that :) in the normal
elfy fashion, otherwise they lose their immortality and if they are not
blooded they lose their ability to use true magic (hey, they aren't elves
anymore, they are 75% elves). Of course if they have bloodlines the wizard
is trying to become an awnsheghlien (even if he isn't he sure acts like he
is) ...

Bearcat
lcgm@elogica.com.br
Come visit Bearcat's Birthright Homepage at:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/6204

[John]

> I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
> with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
> getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
> old. What do I do?

I have had a number of half-elves in my campaign group, but only once
a pureblood elf. Why? Because elves are xenephobic homicidal maniacs
who do not get on too well with humans. This makes playing them very
tricky in a mixed-race party, and so I always say that those wishing
to play elves in my campaign must have a good excuse for why they are
on social terms with members of the human race. My only elf PC was an
emissary/ambassador/advisor from Tuarhievel at the court of Dhoesone,
and as such got on OK with humans, but that's not a common attitude.
In an all-elf or elf-friendly party, that doesn't work, of course,
but then it becomes less of a problem. If they always want to play
elves because they're immortal, point out that in the majority of
campaigns, aging is not going to be a problem even for humans, so
being immortal is not such a big deal.
Another, more extreme solution is to simply say - 'Look guys, this
elf fighter/mage thing is getting a bit worn. Stop playing them
please - think of all the fun you could be having playing other kinds
of characters, so do cut it out!' And grin. ;-)

John Rickards.

"Once I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then
the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a
different universe."
"And now you kill the lambs," whispered Dardalion.
"No, priest. No one pays for lambs."
- David Gemmel, Waylander

[Alexander]

Hey,

I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
old. What do I do?
Me

[Neil Barnes]

On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Alexander wrote:

> Hey,
> I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
> with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
> getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
> old. What do I do?

Well, I've never seen any elven players, just human ones. :)

As for preventing elven PCs, I just forbad my players from playing elven
regents, and emphasised the fact that humans conisder the elves to be
genocidal nutcases - it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the
reputation of the rest. Point out that elven PCs might find themselves
being run out of town by human lynch-mobs. I certainly wouldn't allow
elven regents of human realms.

neil

[relve@Otdk.Helsinki.F]

> > I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
> > with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
> > getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
> > old. What do I do?

Start an elven campaign. It would have a different approach, of
course (smth like elves trying to bring the whole Alvinwode under
elven rule) but I think its worth of trying.

KaaRel

P.S. As for me, I really cannot understand what's the advantage to be
immortal in the game. (except resisting aging attacks) Of course,
it's pleasant to know that you live forever (unless some nasty human
cuts you down) but as all campaigns (that I know) last only a couple
of decades, it really doesn't make any difference.

And even if your regent character dies (for old age), most DM's
(that I know) are kind enough to allow you to continue as a heir.

BTW, have look into the Book of Magecraft. The section on the High
Mage Aelies gives a good example how the immortality (or very long
life span as in case of Aelies) SHOULD affect character attitude.

Just to illustrate the point:
The best tactics for a vampire to deal with his mortal enemy may
often be just sitting and waiting until the enemy dies.

KaaRel

[Ed Stark]

At 11:39 AM 10/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey,
>
> I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
>with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
>getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
>old. What do I do?

Probably not being all that helpful, but ...

Tell 'Em To Stop! You're the DM--tell 'em there just AREN'T that many elves
out there wanting to adventure. Make 'em mix things up a little.

I have a feeling they like being elves because of the special abilities and
the multi-classing, not just because of the immortality (a knife in the
throat'll stop that--and what adventurer expects to die of natural causes
anyway?). You can always employ a system similar to what the old
DragonQuest RPG did.

The designer figured out a percentage chance a PC would have to come from a
particular race or species. The more "special" the race (like shapechanger
or giant), the lower the chance (I think shapechanger was like 4%). A PC
could ALWAYS choose to be human, but the player got to pick two or three
races (I forget) to roll for before automatically defaulting to human. So,
if you tried for shapechanger (4%), giant (10%), and elf (25%) and none of
your three rolls made it, you were a human.

This takes some control out of the hands of the players, but it sounds like
your group might need it. As an extremely rough guess, I'd go with the
following percentages:

Human (any race): AUTO (and also the default)
Dwarf: 50%
Elf: 35% (I give this such a low chance because elves aren't really keen on
adventuring, and 'cause your group seems to want them so much)
Half-elf: 50% (There may be fewer of them, but they get out more ;-))
Halfling: 60%
Goblin: 30% (If you use humanoids, these guys have a hard time adventuring
in predominatly human-centric Cerilia)
Orog: 5% (Moreso)
Gnoll: Nil (Sorry, I just can't see it)

Let 'em pick ONE race other than human to roll for--after they've generated
their ability scores. Tinker with the percentages if you want--you might
even want to provide percentages for different type humans in different
areas (I've seen a lot of Vos warriors roaming the world--that +1 Strength
is tough to pass up).

This is just an idea.

Ed Stark
Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com

[Tripp Elliott]

Alexander wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
> with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
> getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
> old. What do I do?
> Me

Because they are immortal huh? That's silly, anyone ever played a
campaign long enough for that to matter? I'd say the not having to
sleep would be a better reason.

Ok, wanna solve this problem. Ever consider that Humans can have their
own version of "The Hunt".

Hope this helps,

Tripp

[Squirrel06@aol.co]

make up a campaign where they all cant be elves as dm its your choice to say
no you cant be an elf and tell to pick races for good role playing not
abilities.somtimes i play as a halfling even if they dont have the best
abilitys

[James Ruhland]

As a player I always used to prefer elves myself, not just because I'm a
min/maxer (though that did, I'll admit, have something to do with it). But
then I played thouse old SSI Pools Computer games, and learned the fun of
"dual" classing. Try to get your players interested in that; it holds some
power for the player, but in the future, and they have to plan ahead (they
do need good stats, but I'd bend that rule if you want to encourage 'em to
get away from demi-humans only). Then, they have to "start over" (yes, they
keep their HP, so it shouldn't be too bad for 'em, and if they planed ahead
they might even have some magic and other items useful to their next class.
I always looked for scrolls, spellbooks that other mages in the party
didn't want to fight to hard over, etc, if I planed on becoming a mage
next, for example).

I don't see much advantage in the immortality bit; so they live forever? As
has been pointed out, any character, including humans, is unlikely to die
in bed. For me, and probably for the players, it's more of a vanity thing
than anything else; they don't want to think of their character becoming
aged and decrepit, like they are becoming in real life (the player). It
doesn't matter much game wise, so I wouldn't worry about that aspect too
much.

I for one, as a DM and a player, hate to restrict players choices through
rules, or die rolls (a la the system suggested). Instead, FIRMLY enforce
the level restrictions (and other restrictions) already in place. And
FIRMLY enforce the cultural restrictions (all the humans that aren't part
of the party are always insulting, they have to pay more for rooms etc
"because even if I like you, well, the others might cause trouble, and that
will cost me. Heck, even letting you stay here will cost me business if I
get known as an elflover" --inkeeper). Tell the players in advance that
this is how it's gonna be: elves and humans don't get along well in
Cerilia, and you're not going to pretend otherwise. Lots of players will
shrug, then start fights (in bars, in villiages, in towns even, as they get
more powerful) because they don't like putting up with this; then they're
outlaws. Make 'em hunted men. Soon, only Rhoubhe will take 'em in. And he's
an autocrat. They obey, or they die.

>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
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[RMoraza@aol.co]

When we first started our campaign, I told my players up front that BR was
NOT an elf-friendly world and that I would only allow "progressive" elves to
be played as characters. We wound up with one elf, one half-elf, and three
humans. It's made for some interesting role-playing, and has been a nice
change of pace from the "all-powerful, all-elven" FR games I used to play in.

You just have to take charge of your game. The DM is, ultimately, God.

Alison
RMoraza@aol.com
alison@lycosemail.com

[penley@omen.net.a]

At 11:39 17/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey,
>
> I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
>with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
>getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
>old. What do I do?
> Me
>
>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>
>
Find a way to kill them and do so ruthlessly

[James Ruhland]

> >
> >
> Find a way to kill them and do so ruthlessly
>
>
No, no no! I have to disagree strenuously. The game is supposed to be fun
for the players, not just the DM. If you start killing them arbitrarily,
then you'll find yourself without players. Let 'em play whoever they want;
just enforce the rules (as I said before). Killing them for making
decisions you don't like is, IMO, bad DMing. Killing them because they make
stupid choices, on the other hand, is ok. Eventually, I'd hope, they'd want
to play something different. Make other options attractive to 'em (good way
is through NPCs at first, perhaps. NPCs who they'd like to emulate 'cause
of particular skills, getting along better with the human inhabitants that
are always insulting their elves, or whatever). But if you try to FORCE 'em
to do anything, your game will either 1) stop being fun for anyone, at
which point they'll quit or 2) they'll become resigned and passive in the
face of your awesome power (since you decide everything, why should they
bother?) eventually they'll quit here, too.

>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[James Ruhland]

> >
> > I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
> >with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
> >getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
> >old. What do I do?
> > Me
> >
>
> >
> Find a way to kill them and do so ruthlessly
>
Oh wait; I might have been confused. When you said that, I thought you
meant the characters. If that is true, then what I just said will suffice.
If you meant the PLAYERS, well, then that might be a good solution. 8-)

[Robert Harper]

At 05:44 PM 10/18/97 -0300, you wrote:
>>> I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
>>>with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
>>>getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
>>>old. What do I do?
>>
>>Find a way to kill them and do so ruthlessly

Also never forget a rule for elves in human lands in any D&D campaign which
uses the suggestion that elven blood is an ingredient of longevity potions
(I make it lifesblood, not just a 'donation', that's required). Any
unscrupulous mage views an elf as a chance to get a few years younger or a
few gp's wealthier.

Another reason for elven distrust of humans.

__________________________________________________ _________________
| |
| We ask ourselves if there is a God, how can this happen? |
| Better to ask, if there is a God, must it be sane? |
| |
| Lucien LaCroix |
|_________________________________________________ __________________|

[Bryan Ruther]

Alexander wrote:

> Hey,
>
> I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
> with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
> getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
> old. What do I do?
> Me

Keep in mind that in Cerilia, humans tend to be at least distrustful of elves, and
inmany cases outright hostile. One elf walking into town with a group of humans as

chaperones won't attract too much attention, but a group of well armed elves sure
will. Make sure to make them feel unwelcome in any human lands. Adventures
where priests and or thieves are needed will help too.

Bryan

>
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> >

- --
Mankind being originally equals in the order of creation,
the equality could only be destroyed by some subsequent
circumstance...
Thomas Paine, Common Sense

[voelkman]

>Hey,
>
> I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
>with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
>getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
>old. What do I do?
> Me

Hi there

I believe there will be no problems, if U tell Ur players to think of the
disadvantages of an elven campaign. Elves tend to be isolated. Nearly all
elven domains are surrounded by nasty neighbours, which might cause
serious troubles if the regent starts quarreling around.
Remind them, that U know Cerilia and explain (without revealing too much)
that Ur players would miss a lot of fun when choosing too many elven PCs.

BTW, I have one elven PC, being regent of the temple holdings (!) of
Berhagen. All my players went to Cerilia with their old characters, as
they got used to them. In our old world, the elf was trained to be a
templar, and certainly did not loose his profession by going to Cerilia.
So I got an elven cleric; I think U can imagine what that means for elven
regents?
Lots of fun...

CU

Manni

[wiliam bokey]

> At 11:39 AM 10/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hey,
> >
> > I have a DM problem that needs to be answered. All of the people I play
> >with want to be Elves because they are immortal. How do I stop this? I's
> >getting out of hand. They are always Elven fighter/mages. It's getting
> >old. What do I do?
>

Here is a rather quirky way to solve your problem which I have stumbled on accidently:

My character is a "priestess" of the god Erik, so she is out in the wild alot much like elves. On one particular expedition, I encountered what I thought was a wolf. It turned out to be a rabid wolf that was a carrier of the lycanthropy disease. Of course with my luck, I mananged to contract the dreaded disease. Although this is alot of fun to play as a human, lycanthropy is deadly to elves. Thus, if they encounter a group of lycanthropes and a couple of them manage to contract the disease and die, maybe they will start playing other races of characters. If they do not take the hint, you could have them start a 'war' with a powerful lycanthrope, thus making every battle possibly their last. Eventually they will give up and play humans, where they can cross over to the dark side.

Curt