trade route - law claims

[Garamszegi Karoly]

Hello,


during the last game session the following events occured:
There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
without further efforts?


Jerry



*** Whip me. Beat me. Make me maintain AIX. ***

[Sepsis]

At 10:16 PM 10/20/97 +0200, Garamszegi Karoly(jerry@balu.sch.bme.hu)wrote:
>
> during the last game session the following events occured:
>There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
>agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
>trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
>road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
>Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
>turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
>something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
>decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
>the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
>without further efforts?
>

It sure is. But if Ruler 3, or 1, try to skip out on paying the tax, Ruler
2 will have to use other means to enforce it.


Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net (ICQ:3777956)

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html

[James Ruhland]

>
> during the last game session the following events occured:
> There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
> agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
> trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
> road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
> Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
> turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
> something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
> decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal
to
> the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
> without further efforts?
>
Such a decree would be legal, but it would be up to the TRs owner as to
whether he paid the tax or not. If, on the other hand, the TRs owner didn't
pay the tax, the Prov 2 ruler could issue another decree, eliminating the
trade route. So it's in their mutual interest to work out a solution (role
playing, anyone?...) As DM, adjuticating decrees is probably one of the
hardest things to interpret; stuff like getting the d6 GB, that's an
example--it's up to you whether such siezures of goods etc (which is how
the ruler gets the cash) works, and whether that causes unrest, dificulties
with neighbors (diplomacy problems), etc. I.E. siezing property of rebels
and traitors will generate the cash, and *probably* (depending on the
situation) not cause problems, arbitrarily siezing the goods of honest
citizens on the other hand, will cause a change in rulership fairly soon...
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> *** Whip me. Beat me. Make me maintain AIX. ***
>
>
>
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[Tripp Elliott]

Garamszegi Karoly wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> during the last game session the following events occured:
> There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
> agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
> trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
> road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
> Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
> turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
> something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
> decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
> the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
> without further efforts?
>
> Jerry

I would handle this situation by having Ruler 2 make Law claims against
the TR based on the GB it collects use the Claims table.

Tripp

[Ed Stark]

At 10:16 PM 10/20/97 +0200, you wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
>
> during the last game session the following events occured:
>There are 3 provinces with different rulers. Province 1's ruler made an
>agreement with Prov 3's ruler to build a road between their provinces
>trough Province 2. Prov 2's ruler agreed and even helped in building the
>road trough his province. After that Prov 3's ruler made a trade route to
>Prov 1 on the road. Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
>turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
>something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
>decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
>the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
>without further efforts?
>
That's one of the big ways law regents get GB &/or RP. They can "decree"
anything they want. The DM, of course, should keep a couple of things in mind:
Decree, as an action, can't replace other actions. In this case, the
Decree is basically the law regent saying "you have to pay me to use my
road." There's no mechanic for enforcing this Decree (claims against
Holdings works separately), but, basically, the regent is saying "pay up or
you're breaking the law." It's then up to the Guild regent to decide
whether he can (or wants to) resist the Decree.
If the Guild regent resists the Decree, he runs the risk of having the
province ruler occupy the province, shut down his holdings, contest his
actions, and a host of other things. He also won't be able to count on the
province ruler's support when defending against other holders or
aggressors. However, the province ruler can expect Espionage and other
interference as well.
The point is, the province ruler can do this (and probably should, more
often than not), but he has to be circumspect and the holders have to be
realistic. Governments (province rulers) charge for their services. In most
of my campaigns, I don't allow extensive use of the Build action without
the province regent's permission (create a guild house, fine, but you start
building a road through MY province, and I'm gonna have a say).
Basically, the province ruler isn't set up to make money hand over fist,
and warriors don't have the advantages other classes do when it comes to
special actions. They are set up to be kings (or barons, or whatever) and
to use their warcraft to defend territory. In return, they should be able
to expect some financial or moral support.
It's all negotiation.

Ed Stark
Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com

[Taragin@sprintmail.co]

Garamszegi Karoly wrote:
> Prov 2's ruler decreed a 25 percent tax per domain
> turn on the trade route. Is that within his rights or he should have used
> something similar to law claims? In the rule book there's an example for
> decree: generate d6 GB -- but not in every turn, just once. Is it legal to
> the system that he simply decrees a tax and that is collected regularly
> without further efforts?

It's perfectly fair for Province 2 to decree a 25% tax. In the rulebook
under Taxation, Collection, and Trade, on of the 5 ways of making money
is to demand tribute from other realms, which is exactly what this is.
- --
Alexander

“There is no dilemma that cannot be solved by a disciplined Cardassian
mind.” - Gul Dukat