Holdings after regent death

[Bearcat]

At 18:59 21/10/97 -0600, you wrote:
>I think the best way to settle this is to use a tournament. A knightly
>tournament. The sort of thing that happens when a noble is accused of
>commiting a crime and he has to fight for it. Suspose that the High King did
>it this way and the lands were granted to the victor(s)?

I think that this sort of thing would vary from case to case, in the
case of the Anuirean Empire for example the whole kaboodle fell apart, but
with Aerenwe the kingdom was came under Liliene swordwraith. I would say
that all the holdings act as if they were contested, and that anyone who
wished could invest them.
Bearcat
lcgm@elogica.com.br
Come visit Bearcat's Birthright Homepage at:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/6204

[Bill Seurer]

Suppose a regent dies with no heir, what happens to the regent's
holdings? This isn't covered in the rules anywhere. I think source
holdings would just fade away since they are tied only to the regent.
But guild, law, and temple holdings usually involve lots of other people
and physical structures and so should have some persistance.

One thing I was thinking of is that every turn there would be an
automatic "contest" on the holdings with a failure indicting the level
reduces by one. This would represent the gradual chaos as the
leaderless organization falls apart.

If someone wants to invest the former regent's holdings, what would they
have to do? What if the holdings were scattered over many provinces?
What if two people tried to grab such a leaderless holding at once?


- - Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillSeurer@aol.com
Home page: http://members.aol.com/BillSeurer/

[Glenn Robb]

I think the best way to settle this is to use a tournament. A knightly
tournament. The sort of thing that happens when a noble is accused of
commiting a crime and he has to fight for it. Suspose that the High King=
did
it this way and the lands were granted to the victor(s)?

=97 Elton Robb
"Your Generously Liberal GM."
If you want to play a BR FTF campaign and you are in SLC,
E-Mail me privately.

Bill Seurer wrote:

> Suppose a regent dies with no heir, what happens to the regent's
> holdings? This isn't covered in the rules anywhere. I think source
> holdings would just fade away since they are tied only to the regent.
> But guild, law, and temple holdings usually involve lots of other peopl=
e
> and physical structures and so should have some persistance.
>
> One thing I was thinking of is that every turn there would be an
> automatic "contest" on the holdings with a failure indicting the level
> reduces by one. This would represent the gradual chaos as the
> leaderless organization falls apart.
>
> If someone wants to invest the former regent's holdings, what would the=
y
> have to do? What if the holdings were scattered over many provinces?
> What if two people tried to grab such a leaderless holding at once?
>
> - Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
> Business: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillSeurer@aol.com
> Home page: http://members.aol.com/BillSeurer/
>
> ************************************************** *********************=
****
> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the =
line
>

[Brian Stoner]

Bill Seurer wrote:

> Suppose a regent dies with no heir, what happens to the regent's
> holdings? This isn't covered in the rules anywhere. I think source
> holdings would just fade away since they are tied only to the regent.
> But guild, law, and temple holdings usually involve lots of other
> people
> and physical structures and so should have some persistance.
>
> One thing I was thinking of is that every turn there would be an
> automatic "contest" on the holdings with a failure indicting the level
>
> reduces by one. This would represent the gradual chaos as the
> leaderless organization falls apart.
>
> If someone wants to invest the former regent's holdings, what would
> they
> have to do? What if the holdings were scattered over many provinces?
> What if two people tried to grab such a leaderless holding at once?
>
> - Bill Seurer

In some of these cases I would say that everything breaks apart.
Essentially, the local rulers become regents. If it is a landed ruler,
then each provence becomes the territory of the local lord. Guilds turn
over to the local manager. Temples are then overseen by the local head
priest. I like the idea of sources dissipating. After this, whatever
happens is decided by the standard play. Obviously this leaves a lot of
small, weak domains, but that is what happens. Most of these small
rulers will find that they need to ally with the others to survive. In
fact, they may decide to establish a new ruler to replace the lost one.
Others may find it more advantageous to ally with outside domains. Some
may decide to tough it out on their own. Neigboring domains may decide
to invade or contest. This situation provides alot of opportunity for
role playing and power grabbing.

Brian

[Bill Seurer]

> Excerpts from mail: 22-Oct-97 birthright-digest V1996 #334
> birthright-digest@lists. (32107)

> In some of these cases I would say that everything breaks
> apart.
> Essentially, the local rulers become regents.
> ...
> This situation provides alot of opportunity for
> role playing and power grabbing.

Ok, I can see that. And it will fit in well with my campaign. This is
where my campaign is heading and I wanted some ideas how to handle it.

One of the PCs is the last true heir to the kingship of Drachenward *.
He is being backed by a group of nobles unhappy with the current leader.
The way things are leading the current leader is unlikely to survive...

* In Drachenward the "Soldat" (== Soldier in English) of the King rules
the kingdom since the Hag made off with the heir to the thrown
generations ago.


- - Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillSeurer@aol.com
Home page: http://members.aol.com/BillSeurer/

[Ed Stark]

At 10:57 AM 10/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Suppose a regent dies with no heir, what happens to the regent's
>holdings? This isn't covered in the rules anywhere. I think source
>holdings would just fade away since they are tied only to the regent.
>But guild, law, and temple holdings usually involve lots of other people
>and physical structures and so should have some persistance.

You can handle this any way you want, but I believe it HAS been
convered--probably very briefly--somewhere in the rules. If it hasn't, the
ruling we always intended was that the holdings/provinces would "attach"
themselves to someone the land "felt" had the greatest connection to it.
This would have to be a blooded person, of course, but it could be some
schmuck who doesn't even know he/she is a scion. The person would probably
feel different all of the sudden, but maybe not even know why.

We've even left the door open for regency to pass to unintended parties
when there IS an heir. That's the whole reason Investiture is so important.
If a regent doesn't step down (willingly or otherwise) and use Investiture
to designate a true heir, his son, daughter, or favored lieutenant isn't
automatically going to get the job. Oh, sure, the odds are good, but
spending the GB is probably worth the future of a kingdom ...


-- ->-- ->-- ->--@
Ed Stark
Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com

[RMoraza@aol.co]

Even if there is an heir that doesn't mean that the transfer of power runs
smoothly. In our game the Gov of Mieres died. He had three children who
started fighting over his holdings. Civil war broke out and in the end Avanil
sent in troops to restore order.

And another thing about the sources - if left untended, they would fade away
but a non-wizard regent can control sources; he just can't use them. This is
mentioned in the Tuarhievel Domain Sourcebook, as Savane controls the sources
but as a ranger can't utilize them. An enterprising person could seize the
sources of a dead wizard and then "rent them out" or sell them to local
wizards.

Alison
RMoraza@aol.com

[James Ruhland]

> This would have to be a blooded person, of course, but it could be some
> schmuck who doesn't even know he/she is a scion. The person would
probably
> feel different all of the sudden, but maybe not even know why.
>
Ah, thus the source of the traditional Cerlian "schmuck hunt;" where
blooded aristorcrats (trained in the arts of combat, priestcraft, etc)
search the land for the benighted pesant who became invested with that
free-flowing power. 1st one to sword him down becomes regent! (like the
Dynatoi are going to let some unskilled peon atttain power. I'd feel
diferent without a head, too...)

[Bryan Ruther]

> Bill Seurer wrote:
>
> > Suppose a regent dies with no heir, what happens to the regent's
> > holdings?

Brian Stoner wrote:

> In some of these cases I would say that everything breaks apart.
> Essentially, the local rulers become regents. If it is a landed ruler,
> then each provence becomes the territory of the local lord. Guilds turn
> over to the local manager. Temples are then overseen by the local head
> priest.

I actually had something like this happen in the game I run, theDuchess of
Dhoesone died and left no heir, several factions were
then vieing for the control of the now uncontrolled provinces and
holdings. I treated them as 'Uncontrolled' until some PC or NPC
acted to invest them. What was once Dhoesone is now 3 different
realms. The mad scramble for power and position had many
back room deals and involved at least 1 character making several
powerful enimies.

Bryan


- --
Mankind being originally equals in the order of creation,
the equality could only be destroyed by some subsequent
circumstance...
Thomas Paine, Common Sense

[Adam Theo]

Bryan Ruther wrote:
>
> > Bill Seurer wrote:
> >
> > > Suppose a regent dies with no heir, what happens to the regent's
> > > holdings?
>
> Brian Stoner wrote:
>
> > In some of these cases I would say that everything breaks apart.
> > Essentially, the local rulers become regents. If it is a landed ruler,
> > then each provence becomes the territory of the local lord. Guilds turn
> > over to the local manager. Temples are then overseen by the local head
> > priest.
>
> I actually had something like this happen in the game I run, theDuchess of
> Dhoesone died and left no heir, several factions were
> then vieing for the control of the now uncontrolled provinces and
> holdings. I treated them as 'Uncontrolled' until some PC or NPC
> acted to invest them. What was once Dhoesone is now 3 different
> realms. The mad scramble for power and position had many
> back room deals and involved at least 1 character making several
> powerful enimies.
>
> Bryan
>
> --
> Mankind being originally equals in the order of creation,
> the equality could only be destroyed by some subsequent
> circumstance...
> Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > - --
hello, Adam Theo here,
this is how i did it as well. a guild holding network fell apart and
was "uncontrolled" for almost two seasons as possible regent after
regent rose and fell.

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