Adurian power

[Harri Kemppainen]

On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Bill Seurer wrote:

> > Therefore, if one accepts the possibility of firearms or psionics
> > in fantasy settings, what do you all think of using one or the
> > other in
> > some sort of higher level epic adventure involving an invasion by
> > the
> > Adurian Empire?
>
> The Adurian Empire can be a huge threat simply if it *IS* a big,
> organized empire. Even if it doesn't use magic. Most of the Cerelian
> realms are pretty small and can only field small forces. What if the
> Adurians could field HUNDREDS of army units? *THAT* should be a big
> enough threat to scare the heck out of everyone.

Bills got a point here. In Cerilia no regent can build a really big army,
because it is too cumbersome to rule big realms. Without regency it is
much easier to rule big realm and then you have all the income and
resources to create really big army.

- ---
Harri Kemppainen cshake@kastanja.uta.fi
Java-programmer Attila B288b
Information Studies, University of Tampere +358 3 215 7632

[John]

> The single biggest problem I could see with introducing even crude
> firearms (i.e., arquebus and simple bombards) is technology transfer. Once
> the Cerilians are aware of the existance of these things, what is to stop
> them from divining, mundanely or magically, the nature of their operation
> and turning their own church bells into cannons? In short order the
> Cerilians, or at least the Anuire, Brecht and Khinasi, who appear to have
> the necessary metalworking and (al)chemical skills, would be in possesion of
> both true magic and firearms.
>
> Robert Hammond

There is one solution as to why firearms would not be invented. In
GURPS Fantasy, set on a world populated by humans from our world
(whole mystic-dimensional-portal thing called the Banestorm), in
which magic works and has since been mastered by people since they
arrived from the Middle Ages, which had no 'magic', wizards of all
people have been VERY opposed to the idea of gunpowder. The thought
that anyone except a mage, who can charge huge prices for their
services, having the destructive power presented by gunpowder has led
to wizards who would normally hate the sight of one another clubbing
together to squash anyone who even mentions the word. To quote:
'gunpowder has been brought from Earth at least three times, and
invented by the the inhabitants of Yrth at least once. On all
occasions the local mages got together and destroyed not only the
inventor or owner, but everyone who had associated with them or had
heard of their discovery'. This ensured that only mages could blow
things up, and seems quite a logical reason against the use of
gunpowder in a fantasy campaign, especially one with magic as
powerful as realm magic. Sure, people can invent it, and then they
can become Public Enemy #1 to every mage on
Cerilia with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Can you
say 'terminate with extreme prejudice'?

John.

"Once I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then
the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a
different universe."
"And now you kill the lambs," whispered Dardalion.
"No, priest. No one pays for lambs."
- David Gemmel, Waylander

[Bill Seurer]

> Excerpts from mail: 22-Oct-97 birthright-digest V1996 #334
> birthright-digest@lists. (32107)

> Therefore, if one accepts the possibility of firearms or psionics
> in fantasy settings, what do you all think of using one or the
> other in
> some sort of higher level epic adventure involving an invasion by
> the
> Adurian Empire?

I don't like it. The psionic rules don't mesh with the rest very well
(of course a lot of the other rules don't mesh either, so...) and they
don't have the right "feel" to them. All the major mystical power is
tied to holdings so far; the people's belief for clerics and the land's
power for mages. Are you going to try to work up some sort of "Psychic
holdings" too?

As for firearms, again, they just don't fit.

The Adurian Empire can be a huge threat simply if it *IS* a big,
organized empire. Even if it doesn't use magic. Most of the Cerelian
realms are pretty small and can only field small forces. What if the
Adurians could field HUNDREDS of army units? *THAT* should be a big
enough threat to scare the heck out of everyone.


- - Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillSeurer@aol.com
Home page: http://members.aol.com/BillSeurer/

[Daniel McSorley]

> From: Brian Stoner
>
> Perhaps, as
> someone else has said, the Adurians have access to psionics. Or maybe,
> they have limited knowledge of firearms.

SNIP

Therefore, if one accepts the possibility of firearms or psionics
> in fantasy settings, what do you all think of using one or the other in
> some sort of higher level epic adventure involving an invasion by the
> Adurian Empire?
>
I'm not sure where the original source for this is, but in Chronomancer,
it specifically stated that in the Birthright campaign, no matter how far
you went into the future, guns would never be developed. It didn't really
state a reason, but I know that Greyhawk had a similar rule, which was
explained by some obscure chemical property of the atmosphere of Oerth.
Basically, both probably come down to: the original designer didn't
envision the world having guns. If we wanted to do that in our campaigns,
that would be fine, but I thing a more "Birthrightish" solution would be
to go in a direction that has already been travelled: crossbows.
Birthright crossbows are already improved above their generic AD&D
counterparts, and improved technology in Adurian or Cerilian metalworking
would produce more powerful crossbows. In our history, crossbows were only
discontinued because of the invention of gunpowder: had this never
happened, crossbows would probably have been used for quite some extra
time.
A good, advanced crossbow is one from an old Dragon magazine, the siege
crossbow. It did 1d10/1d12 damage, and RoF 1/3. If we made the Adurians a
metallurgically advanced people, this would be very possible. They could
also have stronger armor and sharper weapons than their Cerilian
counterparts, which would even up the playing field considerably.
I also like another person's suggestion about large armies. Without
bloodlines, blood-theft and blood-lust to drive them, the old world empires
could be much more stable and long lasting, not to mention larger.
About psionics: I personally like the psionics rules, but they don't seem
to fit in, in a Birthright setting. I've never used them in a Birthright
game, and don't really intend to.
That's all for now.

Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu

[Darkstar]

Bill Seurer wrote:

> The Adurian Empire can be a huge threat simply if it *IS* a big,
> organized empire. Even if it doesn't use magic. Most of the Cerelian
> realms are pretty small and can only field small forces. What if the
> Adurians could field HUNDREDS of army units? *THAT* should be a big
> enough threat to scare the heck out of everyone.

This is what I was going to say.
The Adurian Empires are much older than the nations of Cerilia and
therefore would have a much larger population. This would give them more
income to spend on their armies and they would be able to field an army
that could match anything all of the nations of Anuire combined could
raise.

- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/birth.html

From the Darkness we came,
and to the Darkness we will return.