Chap 1 - Poll #1

[irdeggman]

In keeping with the spirit of the process used for Chap 2, I'm going to start some polls for Chap 1 subject matter. This is an attempt to quantify opinions and as a default the polls will remain outstanding for approximately 2 weeks.

CW refers to Complete Warrior. Since CW is not OGC we can't simply retype it into the BRCS, we would have to develop something similar. Also, since not everyone - especially in the international market - has ready access to any of the D&D books, except the core 3 (or the SRD that includes them) it is keeping with the policy of the BRCS to not 'require' use of any other books in order to use the ruleset.

[RaspK_FOG]

Even though this is not canonical Birthright, a very interesting concept regarding rangers I once heard of includes allowing only fey and elves any access to spells, and all races having access to another class much like the Wheel of Time's Woodsman; this is in par for those who want Sidhelien to be unique in their nature magic and do not appreciate the canonical non-availability of elven druids... well, mostly! I still cannot understand why players cannot accept setting material and go for the challenge (not the handicap but a REAL challenge!) of playing an elven priest of Erik (a druid, not a typical cleric) who has to keep his mouth shut when he walks in elven lands... Quite a chance for juicy role-playing, isn't it?

[irdeggman]

Results so far are:

Per the PHB - 8
Non-spellcasting ranger - 5
variant for both - 5
Abstain - 0

Which appears to be that the PHB Ranger would be the default with a variant for a non-spellcasting one. Again, things could change.

[the Falcon]

I've voted for using them straight out of the PHb. I would tweak them a little bit though, stating that elven and half-elven rangers of 4th level or higher gain their spells from the forces of nature, while all other rangers of 4th level or higher must be devoted to a specific deity. To me, that's the easiest way to go, while still not going against the flavor of Br.

[RaspK_FOG]

Well, it is not fierctly against the setting's material, and I suppose it's interesting to have it that only lesser followers of Erik (since no other deity has a connection to nature in Birthright) with a bent towards stalking and fighting become rangers, and that rangers of elven heritage can cast spells normally due to their being one with nature.

[RaspK_FOG]

Well, it is not directly against the setting's material, and I suppose it's interesting to have it that only lesser followers of Erik (since no other deity has a connection to nature in Birthright) with a bent towards stalking and fighting become rangers, and that rangers of elven heritage can cast spells normally due to their being one with nature. However, you should remember that all Birthright rangers normally got their spells from nature.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by the Falcon@Apr 4 2004, 07:10 AM
I've voted for using them straight out of the PHb. I would tweak them a little bit though, stating that elven and half-elven rangers of 4th level or higher gain their spells from the forces of nature, while all other rangers of 4th level or higher must be devoted to a specific deity. To me, that's the easiest way to go, while still not going against the flavor of Br.
Interesting concept. But as RaspK_Fog points out only Erik has the necessary affinity for nature to meet the deity requirement.

This could cause problems, IMO, in areas like Vosgaard where Erik is all but unknown and they do not have a shortage of rangers. Also Belnik and Erik are at odds so politically this could even more of an impact. Gaining spells from a deity implies some sort of worship of that deity in order to get the affinity to the deity that goes with the granting of spells.

[BrennanHawkwood]

Originally posted by irdeggman+Apr 6 2004, 11:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (irdeggman &#064; Apr 6 2004, 11:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-the Falcon@Apr 4 2004, 07:10 AM
I&#39;ve voted for using them straight out of the PHb. I would tweak them a little bit though, stating that elven and half-elven rangers of 4th level or higher gain their spells from the forces of nature, while all other rangers of 4th level or higher must be devoted to a specific deity. To me, that&#39;s the easiest way to go, while still not going against the flavor of Br.
Interesting concept. But as RaspK_Fog points out only Erik has the necessary affinity for nature to meet the deity requirement.

This could cause problems, IMO, in areas like Vosgaard where Erik is all but unknown and they do not have a shortage of rangers. Also Belnik and Erik are at odds so politically this could even more of an impact. Gaining spells from a deity implies some sort of worship of that deity in order to get the affinity to the deity that goes with the granting of spells.[/b][/quote]
Which is why I am planning to make non-spellcasting rangers available in my campaigns. I&#39;ve got no problems with the BRCS not including this option though since it seems rather dependant on a given DM&#39;s interpretation of where ranger spells come from and is different from the original material.

My current leanings for my campaign (YMMV) is that all cultures have spell-less rangers. In addition some followers/devotees of Erik become standard, spell-equipped rangers and some elves/half-elves that are particularly attuned to the natural world are spell-equipped rangers. I haven&#39;t decided which set of mechanics I am going to use for the spell-less rangers, though I have read a number of good options. Fortunately I can kind of fudge this right now since none of my PCs or major NPCs are rangers.

-- Blair

[Osprey]

I like the idea of mundane versions of Rangers, as well as other alternatives to the typical spell-casting types (such as the Huntsman, a totemic shapeshifting version I came up with for the Vos and maybe Rjurik or other "barbarians" with more primal connections).

For most human lands I prefer mundane woodsmen and foresters as the default kind of ranger. For elves, the spellcaster type would be a good fit (though I wonder about animal affinity and companions...).

In general, I think the PHB Ranger should be available to anyone of any race, with the assertion that they&#39;re not typical in any human society. In other words, a distinctly PC class suitable for heroes and "special" individuals. The more typical ranger would know his craft well, but not delve into the mystical aspects of that path. Hence, I&#39;d be happy to see a &#39;toned down&#39; NPC version of the ranger class that does not need to be perfectly power-balanced with the PC class. This might help fill out the ranks of scouts and other frontier/wilderness types throughout Cerilia with skilled professionals, without assuming that all of the veterans of 4th level and above are low-level spellcasters.

Osprey

[the Falcon]

Originally posted by irdeggman+Apr 6 2004, 12:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (irdeggman &#064; Apr 6 2004, 12:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-the Falcon@Apr 4 2004, 07:10 AM
I&#39;ve voted for using them straight out of the PHb. I would tweak them a little bit though, stating that elven and half-elven rangers of 4th level or higher gain their spells from the forces of nature, while all other rangers of 4th level or higher must be devoted to a specific deity. To me, that&#39;s the easiest way to go, while still not going against the flavor of Br.
Interesting concept. But as RaspK_Fog points out only Erik has the necessary affinity for nature to meet the deity requirement.[/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t think so. What about Ruornil? He&#39;s clearly in tune with nature. What about Kriesha? She controls natural elements in a certain way (the weather) and is also connected to predatorial animals, like wolves for instance. What about Nesirie? She also has a certain control over the natural elements and is associated with marine life (aquatic animals and plants), dolphins in particular. Those are only the obvious ones; with a little more imagination I&#39;m sure I can find one way or another to make almost any Cerilian deity appropriate to grants spells to a ranger.

[RaspK_FOG]

Originally posted by the Falcon@Apr 6 2004, 11:17 PM
I don&#39;t think so. What about Ruornil? He&#39;s clearly in tune with nature. What about Kriesha? She controls natural elements in a certain way (the weather) and is also connected to predatorial animals, like wolves for instance. What about Nesirie? She also has a certain control over the natural elements and is associated with marine life (aquatic animals and plants), dolphins in particular. Those are only the obvious ones; with a little more imagination I&#39;m sure I can find one way or another to make almost any Cerilian deity appropriate to grants spells to a ranger.
Falcon, I think you hit the nail right on the head... While all deities are in one way or another connected to nature, Erik is in communion with nature&#33;

For example, Ruornil is more mystical in his connection to the natural world (the moon, the night, the Shadow World), and Kriesha has strong ties to more savage parts of it (cold, ice, the winter, the wilderness in such conditions); furthermore, Nesirie is the Lady of the Seas, as at least one person I know put it.

However, these perspectives are only too narrow and personal for someone to truly associate them with the greater picture that is nature, since each one of them catches only a glimpse of it, not the whole. But there stands Erik, who does not see only the mystifying midnight sky, or the harsh northlands, or the untamed waters; he perceives them as one, and this - not by chance, I presume - reminds me of the old druidic traditions which divided the world in Three Realms: the Air, the Earth, and the Sea...

[the Falcon]

Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Apr 7 2004, 12:25 AM
Falcon, I think you hit the nail right on the head... While all deities are in one way or another connected to nature, Erik is in communion with nature&#33;
For example, Ruornil is more mystical in his connection to the natural world (the moon, the night, the Shadow World), and Kriesha has strong ties to more savage parts of it (cold, ice, the winter, the wilderness in such conditions); furthermore, Nesirie is the Lady of the Seas, as at least one person I know put it.
Exactly&#33;&#33; And that&#39;s why Erik is the only one with druids, while all those other deities have rangers. It makes perfect sense. Glad we sorted that out. ^_^

[RaspK_FOG]

Good; I am glad as well...

I would actually go one step forward and say that some deities (or most of them, even all of them, for that) have two orders: the more deifically (not divinely, pay attention to the difference) connected, and the more nature-oriented. However, unlike Erik who has both druids and rangers, the rest can have only rangers.

[the Falcon]

Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Apr 8 2004, 07:18 AM
I would actually go one step forward and say that some deities (or most of them, even all of them, for that) have two orders: the more deifically (not divinely, pay attention to the difference) connected, and the more nature-oriented. However, unlike Erik who has both druids and rangers, the rest can have only rangers.
Actually, I also allow Ruornil to have rangers. ^_^
Hope that didn&#39;t spoil your mood. ;)

[RaspK_FOG]

Originally posted by the Falcon+Apr 9 2004, 11:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (the Falcon &#064; Apr 9 2004, 11:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RaspK_FOG@Apr 8 2004, 07:18 AM
I would actually go one step forward and say that some deities (or most of them, even all of them, for that) have two orders: the more deifically (not divinely, pay attention to the difference) connected, and the more nature-oriented. However, unlike Erik who has both druids and rangers, the rest can have only rangers.
Actually, I also allow Ruornil to have rangers. ^_^
Hope that didn&#39;t spoil your mood. ;) [/b][/quote]
:blink: Why would that ever spoil my mood?

[the Falcon]

Originally posted by RaspK_FOG@Apr 10 2004, 06:22 PM
:blink: Why would that ever spoil my mood?
Well, you just stated that only Erik would have druids and everybody else could only have rangers, when I realized that I&#39;m in favor of giving Ruornil druids as well. You seemed to be glad we came to some sort of consensus, so I hope I didn&#39;t spoil it for you. :o
Anyhoo, there is a "historical" precedent for druids of Ruornil: Treucht. That&#39;s why I think it&#39;s only fair to allow it; my Brecht campaign wouldn&#39;t be the same without it. ^_^
In my campaign, many priests of Ruornil multiclass as cleric/druids. (I use the UA variant that their caster level stack—hell, I&#39;ve even been doing that way before UA came out.)

[RaspK_FOG]

:lol: Now I see why I missed it: you wrote:

Actually, I also allow Ruornil to have rangers. ^_^
Hope that didn&#39;t spoil your mood. ;)

In any case, that is your choice, so why should I mind?

Furthermore, as I was saying some time ago in another thread here, I am writing up a variant that allows me the most of freedom regarding a magic system, works without levels, and tones down the overall power of a spell-caster without disallowing him any of his abilities; it even opens up his ability to cast spells&#33;

What I am doing is writing up a rules system that combines the casting threshold logic introduced from Sovereign Stone and the background logic of D&D for spell-casting classes. Each spell has a casting threshold according to its potency (some have CTs that go by the hundreds&#33;), and each character has both a caster level (as is common) and a spell-casting bonus. Whenever you cast a spell, you roll 1d20, add any modifiers you have and your spell-casting bonus, and add them up to a spell-casting point pool; when these points add up to being equal or more than the spell&#39;s CT, the spell is finally cast and takes effect. Armour applies a penalty to spell-casting checks which cannot lower the points you add to the pool below 0.

In my system, there are three types of magic for which your spell-casting bonus as granted by each class may stack: Arcane
Divine Nature
Priestly

Thus, a druid/priest in my world will cast any divine spell with a combined caster level and spellcasting bonus. However, a bard/priest will cast cure light wounds either as a bard or as a priest...

[irdeggman]

OK, I&#39;m closing this poll.

The results are:

The PHB method - 13
As a non-spellcaster - 7
Variants for both - 5
Abstain - 0

As I interpret these results the default ranger should be the PHB version with a variant for a non-spellcasting one.