Realm Spells

[Fredrik Lundberg]

Det hdr dr ett multipart-meddelande i MIME-format.

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Since there seems to be some kind of collective writers block I thought =
I'd post some questions for everyone to think about and answer.

* Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the =
appropriate holding?

* Can a blooded character be a magician? If he/she can, can he/she then =
cast realm spells?

* If a human wizard is subjected to bloodtheft and there by loses his =
life (and bloodline) and is later raised or resurrected would he/she =
become a magician?

* What would happen with the spells that he/she knew as a wizard and now =
can't cast because he/she is a magician? Would they be lost from his/her =
spellbook? If he/she before the accident had his full allotment of =
spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how can he/she learn =
new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm spells? Would =
he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or would he/she =
forget them?

* If that same character later gained a new bloodline would he/she then =
be a magician or a wizard? And what would happen with the his/her spells =
that he/she lost above?

Here are a few words from Carl von Clausewitz that is very true in =
Birthright world
"War is but a continuation of politics with other means."

Thank you all for your time,
Fredrik "Fro" Lundberg
ICQ UIN: 4022817

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Since there seems to be =
some kind of=20
collective writers block I thought I'd post some questions for everyone =
to think=20
about and answer.
 
* Can Rangers, Paladins =
and Bards=20
cast realm spells if they have the appropriate holding?
 
* Can a blooded =
character be a=20
magician? If he/she can, can he/she then cast realm spells?
 
* If a human wizard is =
subjected to=20
bloodtheft and there by loses his life (and bloodline) and is later =
raised or=20
resurrected would he/she become a magician?
 
* What would happen =
with the spells=20
that he/she knew as a wizard and now can't cast because he/she is a =
magician?=20
Would they be lost from his/her spellbook? If he/she before the accident =
had his=20
full allotment of spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how =
can=20
he/she learn new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm =
spells?=20
Would he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or would =
he/she=20
forget them?
 
* If that same =
character later gained=20
a new bloodline would he/she then be a magician or a wizard? And what =
would=20
happen with the his/her spells that he/she lost above?
 
Here are a few words from Carl von =
Clausewitz that=20
is very true in Birthright world
"War is but a =
continuation of=20
politics with other means."
 
Thank you all for your=20
time,
Fredrik "Fro" =

Lundberg
ICQ UIN:=20
4022817

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[Tripp Elliott]

Fredrik Lundberg wrote:
>
> Since there seems to be some kind of collective writers block I
> thought I'd post some questions for everyone to think about and
> answer.
> Â*
> * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
> appropriate holding?

Sure, why not, I'd even let Priests of Ruornil cast Wizard Realm Spells
if they controlled a source.

> * Can a blooded character be a magician? If he/she can, can he/she
> then cast realm spells?

Sure, but only first and second level ones, provided the character owns
sources.

> * If a human wizard is subjected to bloodtheft and there by loses his
> life (and bloodline) and is later raised or resurrected would he/she
> become a magician?

Hmmm, I'm not gonna touch this one.

> * What would happen with the spells that he/she knew as a wizard and
> now can't cast because he/she is a magician? Would they be lost from
> his/her spellbook? If he/she before the accident had his full
> allotment of spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how can
> he/she learn new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm
> spells? Would he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or
> would he/she forget them?

Not doing this one either.

> * If that same character later gained a new bloodline would he/she
> then be a magician or a wizard? And what would happen with the his/her
> spells that he/she lost above?

Ditto

These are all great questions though, I just don't fell qualified to
answer some of them.

Tripp

[Trizt]

- ->Fredrik Lundberg wrote:

- ->> * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
- ->> appropriate holding?

I think that it was ment that only wizards and priests could cast realms
spells. But IMO Bards should have some access to cast realms spells, maybe
that their source is counted as half their value when casting realms spells
(eg a bard needs a level 2 source holding for casting a spell which needs a
level 1 source). Rangers and Paladins should never have access to Realm spells
as thise always needs to be of "high" level before they can cast spells.


- ->> * Can a blooded character be a magician? If he/she can, can he/she
- ->> then cast realm spells?

Yes they can and when it comes to Realms Spells they should not be as good as
true wizards, so prolly the same thing as I suggested for Bards.


- ->> * If a human wizard is subjected to bloodtheft and there by loses his
- ->> life (and bloodline) and is later raised or resurrected would he/she
- ->> become a magician?

I would say that the wizard would still be a wizard, but can only cast spells
like a magican.


- ->> * What would happen with the spells that he/she knew as a wizard and
- ->> now can't cast because he/she is a magician? Would they be lost from
- ->> his/her spellbook? If he/she before the accident had his full
- ->> allotment of spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how can
- ->> he/she learn new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm
- ->> spells? Would he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or
- ->> would he/she forget them?

Nothing would happen to the spells, they just would take up a place in the
"wizards" mind, so they should be counted when checking how many spells the
"wizard" knows. The spells will still occupy the pages, spells don't know how
to disappear, it's just that the "wizard" can't handle the energies which is
needed to understand this spell.
How the "wizard" would learn new spells? In the same manner s/he would done
before s/he died. And the "wizard" would remember those Realm spells, but as
with true magic spells, thise can't be used.


- ->> * If that same character later gained a new bloodline would he/she
- ->> then be a magician or a wizard? And what would happen with the his/her
- ->> spells that he/she lost above?

When gained new blood the "wizard" would again be able to cast the spells
which s/he couldn't during her/his unblooded period.
It's just like a priest who falls from his religion and looses all his magical
powers as his god no longer supports him, he still is a priest, as soon as he
somhow gains the trust of a new (or the old) god, he will get back his
abilities to cast spells.



//Trizt of Ward^RITE

-

[Trizt]

- ->Fredrik Lundberg wrote:

- ->> * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
- ->> appropriate holding?

I think that it was ment that only wizards and priests could cast realms
spells. But IMO Bards should have some access to cast realms spells, maybe
that their source is counted as half their value when casting realms spells
(eg a bard needs a level 2 source holding for casting a spell which needs a
level 1 source). Rangers and Paladins should never have access to Realm spells
as thise always needs to be of "high" level before they can cast spells.


- ->> * Can a blooded character be a magician? If he/she can, can he/she
- ->> then cast realm spells?

Yes they can and when it comes to Realms Spells they should not be as good as
true wizards, so prolly the same thing as I suggested for Bards.


- ->> * If a human wizard is subjected to bloodtheft and there by loses his
- ->> life (and bloodline) and is later raised or resurrected would he/she
- ->> become a magician?

I would say that the wizard would still be a wizard, but can only cast spells
like a magican.


- ->> * What would happen with the spells that he/she knew as a wizard and
- ->> now can't cast because he/she is a magician? Would they be lost from
- ->> his/her spellbook? If he/she before the accident had his full
- ->> allotment of spells and he/she don't loses those wizard spells how can
- ->> he/she learn new magician spells? What would happen to his/her realm
- ->> spells? Would he/she still remember them but be unable to cast them or
- ->> would he/she forget them?

Nothing would happen to the spells, they just would take up a place in the
"wizards" mind, so they should be counted when checking how many spells the
"wizard" knows. The spells will still occupy the pages, spells don't know how
to disappear, it's just that the "wizard" can't handle the energies which is
needed to understand this spell.
How the "wizard" would learn new spells? In the same manner s/he would done
before s/he died. And the "wizard" would remember those Realm spells, but as
with true magic spells, thise can't be used.


- ->> * If that same character later gained a new bloodline would he/she
- ->> then be a magician or a wizard? And what would happen with the his/her
- ->> spells that he/she lost above?

When gained new blood the "wizard" would again be able to cast the spells
which s/he couldn't during her/his unblooded period.
It's just like a priest who falls from his religion and looses all his magical
powers as his god no longer supports him, he still is a priest, as soon as he
somhow gains the trust of a new (or the old) god, he will get back his
abilities to cast spells.



//Trizt of Ward^RITE

-

[Scotty]

- ->> * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
- ->> appropriate holding?

IMO, I would say yes to both paladins and rangers casting realm spells
both would have some connection and interest in the realm. Bards are
typically wanderers, with few to know loyalties.

Scott Stokes
"I am the soul of honor, trust me in all things."

[Tripp Elliott]

Trizt wrote:
>
> ->Fredrik Lundberg wrote:
>
> ->> * Can Rangers, Paladins and Bards cast realm spells if they have the
> ->> appropriate holding?
>
> I think that it was ment that only wizards and priests could cast realms
> spells. But IMO Bards should have some access to cast realms spells, maybe
> that their source is counted as half their value when casting realms spells
> (eg a bard needs a level 2 source holding for casting a spell which needs a
> level 1 source). Rangers and Paladins should never have access to Realm spells
> as thise always needs to be of "high" level before they can cast spells.

Now, for this, I have to disagree. I would look at a Realm spell, let's
use a Priest one, say it can only be cast by a third level Priest. Ok,
I'd look at the spell table, and say, ahh, that's a "2nd" level Realm
Spell. So, when do Paladin's get 2nd Level spells? 11th Level, Ok, an
11th Level Paladin can cast this Realm spell. That's how I would rule,
and similarly for Rangers.

Tripp

[TSR Carrie]

In a message dated 97-12-05 23:33:15 EST, you write:

>

As the editor and developer of *The Book of Magecraft*, I would have to say
NO. From a story perspective, it takes someone who has devoted his or her
entire life to the study of magic or worship of a god to control such powerful
magic, whereas rangers, paladins, and bards have also developed other talents.
From a game balance perspective, realm spells are too powerful to allow access
to classes from all four character groups.

Carrie Bebris

[Rich Baker]

At 06:12 PM 12/11/97 EST, Carrie Bebris wrote:
>
>appropriate holding? >>
>
>As the editor and developer of *The Book of Magecraft*, I would have to say
>NO. From a story perspective, it takes someone who has devoted his or her
>entire life to the study of magic or worship of a god to control such
powerful
>magic, whereas rangers, paladins, and bards have also developed other
talents.

Carrie is, as always, correct. Realm spells are the special prerogative of
the true wizard and the priest (and specialty priest and druid) -- no other
classes with spell abilities can make use of these powerful magicks.

Rich Baker
Birthright Designer

[hobbychest@pcsia.co]

Its nice to see Carrie and Rich have joined the discussion. I haven't
seen either of you post since I've been on.

Robert Thomson
rthomson@geocities.com

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

Hey everybody- glad we're back! I was worried during the outage that I had been
somehow banished to the Shadow world.

Carrie; good to "see" you here.

I would agree, in general that allowing classes such as Rangers and Bards to
cast realm spells is unbalancing. The only one I'm waffling on is Paladins.
Without realm spells, a Paladin couldn't be the leader of a church; at least
not a very effective one. The crippling factor is that he couldn't invest
anyone. No published domains that a straight Paladin as their head come to
mind. (Taliene??) Hmmmm, guess the decision lies in how one envisions paladins.

Militant defenders of the faith or heads of fighting orders only.
Warriors who know some dogma, rituals and other priestly stuff, or who have
experienced some special calling to serve their god.

Enlightend warriors who see the best way to serve their god is through their
skill at arms. Priests who are really good fighters.

Hmmm, looks like I'm answering my own questions once again. I see them, and
their class is defined as, that of the militant defender. They're warriors
first and priests second. No realm spells for you buckaroo. (except maybe
investiture??)

Bummer for my player who is a paladin- tentatively, I was going to let him get
away with it.

Randax

[hobbychest@pcsia.co]

BI>I would agree, in general that allowing classes such as Rangers and Bards to
BI>cast realm spells is unbalancing. The only one I'm waffling on is Paladins.
BI>Without realm spells, a Paladin couldn't be the leader of a church; at least
BI>not a very effective one. The crippling factor is that he couldn't invest
BI>anyone. No published domains that a straight Paladin as their head come to
BI>mind. (Taliene??) Hmmmm, guess the decision lies in how one envisions paladi

Ariya is led by a paladin. (Gerad ibn el Arrassi, paladin of Avani) I
am also kind of questioning this part. I think bards and rangers
wouldn't have the focus required to cast realm spells. Paladins don't
have this problem. They tend to be very focused individuals.
I see Paladins being just as strong in faith as priests, so I see them
being able to wield power of gods just like priests. However, I am
still kinda unsure about the connection to the land and being able to
draw divine power from it to power realm spells.

Robert Thomson
rthomson@geocities.com

[TSR Carrie]

In a message dated 97-12-13 05:39:41 EST, you write:

>

Thank you. I've been buried under a deadline for some Shadow World material
(and I do mean "buried" quite literally--you should see my desk ;)

Carrie Bebris

[Ed Stark]

At 12:05 PM 12/12/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Its nice to see Carrie and Rich have joined the discussion. I haven't
>seen either of you post since I've been on.
>
>Robert Thomson
>rthomson@geocities.com
>
Well, you know, they're lazy ...

JUST KIDDING! JUST KIDDING! PUT DOWN THE AXE!!!

;-0
-- ->-- ->-- ->--@
Ed Stark
Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com
(soon to be http://www.tsr.com)