A Dragon for DRAGON

[Bearcat]

>On the subject of the almost-a-dragons,

Don't you think we have been overlooking the varsks?

[John]

A dragon in the Rain Serpents with that 'Ones Who Wait' strangeness?
If so, that gets my vote. If not, The Dragon or Swampsblood'd be
cool.

John.

"Once I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then
the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a
different universe."
"And now you kill the lambs," whispered Dardalion.
"No, priest. No one pays for lambs."
- David Gemmel, Waylander

[Ed Stark]

Dave Gross, editor of DRAGON, approached me concerning the upcoming June
issue of DRAGON magazine. He wondered if I wanted to write up another
Cerilian dragon. I told him that sounded like a fine idea. I wrote the
"Fire in the Five Peaks" article that appeared in last June's DRAGON, and
Rich Baker wrote "Tarazin the Grey" for the previous year's (I think it was
the previous year, anyway ... I'll have to check).

Anyway, I have a few ideas about which Cerilian dragon to write up (a few
new ones, and a few that have been mentioned in passing), but I thought I'd
open up the field to suggestions from all of you. If you have any "votes"
on a particular Cerilian dragon that's been mentioned, or a VERY SHORT (50
words or less) recommendation for a dragon you'd like to see written up,
please email me or the list. Keep in mind that if I use your idea, I'll
probably end up sharing credit to the BR mailing list, but you may not get
any other credit. I really don't want anyone feeling I've "stolen" their
idea and run with it, so if you've got something really good that you're
worried about seeing show up in DRAGON under someone else's byline, please
don't feel you need to send it in.

As always, I'll appreciate any ideas you want to share with me, but I'm
sure I can come up with SOMETHING ;-) on my own if you don't have anything
for me. I should be getting started on the article next week sometime.


-- ->-- ->-- ->--@
Ed Stark
Game Designer, Wizards of the Coast/TSR Division
Asst. Brand Manager, BIRTHRIGHT/GREYHAWK/MARVEL Group
TSR Website: http://www.tsrinc.com
(soon to be http://www.tsr.com)

[Daniel McSorley]

I'd like to see the Dragon that has the sources in ?Drachenward? I don't
know exactly where.
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu

[Scott Koester]

I would REALLY like to see a write up of the dragon that is known to roam
the Rain Serpent Mtns. What is the relationship between it and the
mysterious peoples that are rumored to exist there? What does it know of
the disapperance of the Masetians?
So there's my vote on the matter Ed!!!!


Scott Koester
muaddib+@osu.edu

[Dragon3125@aol.co]

I would like to know all about Vore Lenninsky

[Michael Andrew Cullingha]

Personally, I'd like to see the dragon Swampsblood
from eastern Anuire detailed a little more, since
I was sort of planning on using him in connection
with a sudden increase with a new race of lizard
men.

As for other ideas, I have a dragon in my campaign
that I plan on using sometime as well, depending
on the direction that my players head in next...

Grootkoud ("Big Cold" in Dutch I believe)
- - hails from north-eastern Rjurik / north-west Brechtur
- - uses a variety of cold-based spells rather
- - killed in a major battle with a mage who used "Trap the
Soul" to place its soul within a gem.
- - later tricked a young mage into ressurrecting (sp?) him/her.

I'll probably detail this dragon more anyways, but if I've
triggered some spark of an idea, anyone out there can feel
free to use him/her.

Mike

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Ed Stark wrote:

> Anyway, I have a few ideas about which Cerilian dragon to write up (a few
> new ones, and a few that have been mentioned in passing), but I thought I'd
> open up the field to suggestions from all of you. If you have any "votes"
> on a particular Cerilian dragon that's been mentioned, or a VERY SHORT (50
> words or less) recommendation for a dragon you'd like to see written up,
> please email me or the list. Keep in mind that if I use your idea, I'll
> probably end up sharing credit to the BR mailing list, but you may not get
> any other credit. I really don't want anyone feeling I've "stolen" their
> idea and run with it, so if you've got something really good that you're
> worried about seeing show up in DRAGON under someone else's byline, please
> don't feel you need to send it in.

Well I can just imagine that the frontrunner in this race is going to be
the mysterious Dragon mentioned as a Source Holder in the Drachenward. He
has had a lot of build-up in numerous publications, and would appear to be
both very powerful and schemingly involved in Cerillian politics. He would
make a logical choice, and seeing as many Dragon readers like to see the
Gee-whiz stuff published (seeing the FR dragons stuff that has been
published in there lately) this may be a logical way to get more folks
interested in BR. ("See, our dragons are even cooler than yours; ours get
Realm Spells".)

On the other hand, I think one of the strengths of BR is its rich
background for role-playing, and I would like to see a Dragon article that
focuses on encountering a dragon as a unique possibility for role-playing
realm rulers, whether they be guilders, priests, wizards or political
leaders, rather than Gee-Whiz power stats or a flashy story. For this
reason, I would like to place my vote for the mysterious Swampsblood,
mentioned in the Ruins of Empire as a dragon legendarily encountered in
the swamps of Elinie, Coeranys and Osoerde. I would like to see ideas on
the likely reaction of the dragon if he does "wake up" and discover the
encroachment of civilization all around his home, how he is likely to
effect things like law and source holdings, trade routes, dealing with
armies sent after him, likely relationship with elves and awnsheighlein,
and ways that different regents are likely to respond to his appearance.
This idea also has the benefit of helping to advertise the forthcoming
relaunch of the BR rules, as I believe the Anuirean area will be detailed
in that book as in the box, while the Brecht/Vos area will not.

So, my vote is for Swampsblood. Anyone else want to jump on my bandwagon?

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Craig Greeson]

Ed Stark wrote:
> Anyway, I have a few ideas about which Cerilian dragon to write up (a few
> new ones, and a few that have been mentioned in passing), but I thought I'd
> open up the field to suggestions from all of you. If you have any "votes"
> on a particular Cerilian dragon that's been mentioned, or a VERY SHORT (50
> words or less) recommendation for a dragon you'd like to see written up,
> please email me or the list.

Ed,
My vote would be for "The Dragon" who controls the source network in
Drachenward. Of course, that means I'm assuming this wizard is truly
a Cerilian dragon... Regardless of what you choose, I'll look forward
to the article.

Regards
Craig

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

> I'd like to see the Dragon that has the sources in ?Drachenward? I don't
> know exactly where.

- ----- End Included Message -----


IMC it's undetermined (by both the DMs and the Players) if the Dragon of
Drachenward/Grabentod is actually a Dragon or not. I think I prefer to keep it
that way. Some story/stats about his motivations would be good though. If
concensus is that he is a Dragon, by all means, write him up- hey, I can play
well with others #:).

An alternative would be the Dragon of Vstaive Peak. Since he just woke up, some
insight into his Draconian plans would be useful.

Randax

[prtr02@scorpion.nspco.co]

> From muaddib+@osu.edu Fri Feb 13 16:19:44 1998
> X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-birthright@lists.MPGN.COM using -f
> X-Sender: koester.6@pop.service.ohio-state.edu
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:48:39 -0500

> I would REALLY like to see a write up of the dragon that is known to roam
> the Rain Serpent Mtns. What is the relationship between it and the
> mysterious peoples that are rumored to exist there? What does it know of
> the disapperance of the Masetians?

There's an "official" Dragon in the Rain Serpent Mts? If so I change my vote.

Randax

[Sepsis]

Greetings,
I just wanted to thrown in my GBs for a write up of Swampsblood. I've
always loved Black Dragons, and I would hope even a Cerilian Dragon who
lairs in swamps would be of the acid-spitting variety. :-)


Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net (ICQ:3777956)

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html

[Darkstar]

Ed Stark wrote:

> Anyway, I have a few ideas about which Cerilian dragon to write up (a few
> new ones, and a few that have been mentioned in passing), but I thought I'd
> open up the field to suggestions from all of you. If you have any "votes"
> on a particular Cerilian dragon that's been mentioned, or a VERY SHORT (50
> words or less) recommendation for a dragon you'd like to see written up,
> please email me or the list. Keep in mind that if I use your idea, I'll
> probably end up sharing credit to the BR mailing list, but you may not get
> any other credit. I really don't want anyone feeling I've "stolen" their
> idea and run with it, so if you've got something really good that you're
> worried about seeing show up in DRAGON under someone else's byline, please
> don't feel you need to send it in.

I would defintily like to see something more about Vore Lenninsky, my
current favorite dragon.
- - what are his aims.
- - why did he wake up, was it normal or did someone stumble into his
lair.
- - how do Cerilian dragons control source holdings
that sort of thing.


- --
Ian Hoskins

e-Mail: hoss@box.net.au
ICQ: 2938300
Home Page: http://darkstar.cyberserv.com

From the Darkness we came,
and to the Darkness we will return.

[Jim Cooper]

jonathan.w.ingram@exgate.tek.com wrote:
>
> This makes me curious. Not having the rulebook in front of me I can't
> check on this, but aren't swamps limited to a level 5 source?

No, swamps constitute 0/8 level provinces; ie a source max in a swamp
terrain province is 8.

Darren

[Trizt]

On 13-Feb-98, Ed Stark (ted@wizards.com) wrote about [BIRTHRIGHT] - A Dragon
for DRAGON:
- ->Dave Gross, editor of DRAGON, approached me concerning the upcoming June
- ->issue of DRAGON magazine. He wondered if I wanted to write up another
- ->Cerilian dragon. I told him that sounded like a fine idea. I wrote the
- ->"Fire in the Five Peaks" article that appeared in last June's DRAGON, and
- ->Rich Baker wrote "Tarazin the Grey" for the previous year's (I think it was
- ->the previous year, anyway ... I'll have to check).

Something what I would like to se in Cerilia would be unintelligent dragons,
animals which resembles of dragons. They may be a bit smaller, have a much
weeker breathweapon, no spell use, don't speak any language, don't collect
treasure (treasure which can be found should only be things their food
happened to carry with them).

If there would have been dragonriders, they would have used thise
unintelligent dragons as they are so much easier to master than a real dragon,
but they are still quite dangerous for the dragon riders.

IMO this kind of anmilas are missing in AD&D.


//Trizt of Ward^RITE

-

[Taragin@sprintmail.co]

On the subject of the almost-a-dragons, look in the MONSTEROUS MANUAL
under Lizard, Fire and you'll see that they "resemble wingless red
dragons and are sometimes called 'false dragons.'" Also, though small,
Firedrakes and Pseudodragons could fall under this heading. In the
Rjurik Highlands, some of the less powerful Linnorm Dragons from the 1st
MONSTEROUS COMPENDIUM Annual might be useful.
That book also contains the Foulwing and the Gorynych (both originally
from DRAGON Magazine). In the 3rd MONSTEROUS COMPENDIUM Annual, there's
the Scalamagdrion (though they may be native to FR or Grayhawk, I'm not
sure) and Giant Striders (though that stretching it).

- --
Alexander

"I am the undefeated captain of this school's kendo club; the rising
new star of the high school fencing world. The sound of my voice strikes
fear into the hearts on my enemies. My peers call me the 'Blue Thunder
of Furinkan High;' Tatewaki Kuno, age seventeen."

[Jim Cooper]

Glenn Robb wrote:
>
> Trizt wrote:
>
> > Something what I would like to se in Cerilia would be unintelligent dragons,
> > animals which resembles of dragons.
> > IMO this kind of anmilas are missing in AD&D.
> >
> Now here is something that I would totally agree with Trizt. In Rolemaster and
> other RPGs like GURPS, the concept of lesser dragons are known. Fell beasts,
> lesser drakes, and other dracoforms fall into this catagory. All we need is some
> of these `lesser dragons' to be made known for AD&D. Wyverns count, but there
> isn't enough species.
>
> What do you all think?
>
IMO this would be just as bad as having too much magic or high level
PC/NPCs; I would rather that fantastic monsters/species (and spin-offs
of such) are limited & *rare*, keeping in flavour with the feel of the
BR milieu.

Darren

[Neil Barnes]

On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Glenn Robb wrote:
>
> Now here is something that I would totally agree with Trizt. In Rolemaster and
> other RPGs like GURPS, the concept of lesser dragons are known. Fell beasts,
> lesser drakes, and other dracoforms fall into this catagory. All we need is some
> of these `lesser dragons' to be made known for AD&D. Wyverns count, but there
> isn't enough species.

Persoanally I'm quite happy with the rarity of Dragons within Cerilia.
However, what I'd like to see in the Dragon article is a _dumb_ Dragon.
One who doesn't have hugely convoluted plots and schemes (or tries to
and fails), but just flies around and eats people (preferably virgin
princesses :).

I'm a bit disheartened by all these ubercunning dragons that are in the
air (pun intentional) at the moment. To continue with todays theme of
Realms bashing, what is it with the Wyrms of the North feature in
Dragon? Do any of these Dragons have normal abilities? Or are they all
shit hot spell casters? Can a 'normal' dragon just not hack it in the
Realms? Bleargh!

neil

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

I recommend doing a thing on the Dragon (in command of dozens of source
holdings in Grabentod, Drachenward, Gnoll Fells and possibly some other places
you've written about).

Second choice vote would be doing Vore Leninskiy from your TotHW recent game
expansion.

I would be great to see some Cerilia-style dragon magic...(I love to terrify
PCs!)

- -DKE

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-02-13 18:43:46 EST, you write:

> I just wanted to thrown in my GBs for a write up of Swampsblood. I've
> always loved Black Dragons, and I would hope even a Cerilian Dragon who
> lairs in swamps would be of the acid-spitting variety. :-)
>
Actually, all Cerilian dragons' breath weapon is actually burning acid. Hey,
you were closer to Black Dragon than you though! ;)

- -DKE

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 98-02-15 06:49:54 EST, you write:

> Something what I would like to se in Cerilia would be unintelligent dragons,
> animals which resembles of dragons. They may be a bit smaller, have a much
> weeker breathweapon, no spell use, don't speak any language, don't collect
> treasure (treasure which can be found should only be things their food
> happened to carry with them).
>
Can you use wyverns, then? I believe I saw somewhere (Darkstar's homepage?)
someone did a whole bunch of different types of wyverns that were really
interesting...

- -DKE

[Sepsis]

At 09:03 AM 2/16/98 EST, DKE(DKEvermore@aol.com)wrote:
>
>Actually, all Cerilian dragons' breath weapon is actually burning acid. Hey,
>you were closer to Black Dragon than you though! ;)
>

I don't know, I've always thought of the Cerilian Dragon's "stream of acid
and fire" as more a form of napalm and less that of "true" acid. Although
the effect is essentially the same (ie. painful death), I was hoping for
something more classically BD. Truthfully I'm not hung up on breath
weapons, and my original Post may have been to general. When I said I hoped
Swampsblood would be of the "acid-spitting variety", I spoke less of his
breath weapon and more about his nature. I just love the image of the Black
Dragon floating just below the surface of a fetid pool, fouled by his evil
presence, just his eyes breaking the water (Ala alligator). The trees about
his foul lair are huge weeping beasts with moss hanging off their skeletal
shapes like rotting flesh sliding off bone. Thick clouds of insects fill
the air stinging and biting at any warm-blooded animal that enters their
domain. All of this made more oppressive by the steaming hot air filled
with the overwhelming sent of rotting vegetation, and the constant danger
of quicksand. Such foreboding lairs can be made more sinister by including
appropriate "swamp-like" minions such as: Lizard Men slave tribes, Violet
Fungi (and/or Shriekers), Giant Insects and/or Reptiles (a Dinosaur or two
works well here), Evil Plants (Yellow-Musk, Quickwoods, Evil Treants,
etc.), Slimes, Jellies, Oozes, Puddings (insert Cerilian Pudding here
), and of course one of my all time favorites Sandlings (in the
quicksand don't you know). That is of course just a small list of
possibilities, but I think you get my drift. My love of the BD comes from
this dank, creepy image (it may have to do with living in an area thats
more then 50% swamp) and I would really like to see such a creature in the
BR mythology. Take a BD, add in Realm Magic and a desire to spread his
"kingdom" and you get an incredible antagonist.


Sepsis, richt@metrolink.net (ICQ:3777956)

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

BR Netbook: http://webpages.metrolink.net/~veleda/birth.html