Drow?

[patera]

Do drow exist under Aebrynis?

[Daniel McSorley]

>Do drow exist under Aebrynis?
Gut rxn: For the love of god, no!
Reasoned response: I have never heard anything about an underdark per se in
Aebrynis, though there is occasional mention of the network of orog tunnels
(I think exaggerated). The elves in Cerilia, at least, have been too busy
warring with the humaniods, then the humans, and now the awnshegh plus the
other two, to have time for a intraracial war to drive some off their number
underground. Plus, drow don't seem to fit the atmosphere of BR, and if you
want me to explain that, then you wouldn't understand :) It's something I
can't express real well, it just is.
Daniel McSorley
mcsorley.1@osu.edu
ICQ:5299865
AIM:DanMcS

[Craig Greeson]

Greetings,
IMO, it's totally up to the DM whether Dark Elves exist. In a few BR products
(particularly the adventure Warlock of the Stonecrowns) it is hinted that they
can be found. IMC they are. The Dark Elves are descendants of the elves who
remained loyal to Azrai in the War of Shadow and at Mt. Deismaar. I've
rationalized it by saying the elves that stayed loyal to Azrai were shunned by
their Sidhelien brethren and mercilessly hunted by the humans. They fled to the
Underdark to avoid extermination. If you don't want dark elves, however, it is
easy to rationalize that the elves hated the Underdark so much that they would
never have fled there.

Regards
Craig

patera wrote:
>
> Do drow exist under Aebrynis?
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[patera]

I agree that the drow don't fit into the setting, but the underdark is
present in one of the published adventures(I can't remember which one off
the top of my head). This leads me to believe that the drow or svirfneblin
are present down there(could these be the cerilian gnome in hiding?).

- ----------
> From: Daniel McSorley
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Drow?
> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 6:27 PM
>
> >Do drow exist under Aebrynis?
> Gut rxn: For the love of god, no!
> Reasoned response: I have never heard anything about an underdark per se
in
> Aebrynis, though there is occasional mention of the network of orog
tunnels
> (I think exaggerated). The elves in Cerilia, at least, have been too
busy
> warring with the humaniods, then the humans, and now the awnshegh plus
the
> other two, to have time for a intraracial war to drive some off their
number
> underground. Plus, drow don't seem to fit the atmosphere of BR, and if
you
> want me to explain that, then you wouldn't understand :) It's something
I
> can't express real well, it just is.
> Daniel McSorley
> mcsorley.1@osu.edu
> ICQ:5299865
> AIM:DanMcS
>
>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[LordSchmit]

>Greetings,
>IMO, it's totally up to the DM whether Dark Elves exist. In a few BR
products
>(particularly the adventure Warlock of the Stonecrowns) it is hinted that
they
>can be found. IMC they are. The Dark Elves are descendants of the elves who
>remained loyal to Azrai in the War of Shadow and at Mt. Deismaar. I've
>rationalized it by saying the elves that stayed loyal to Azrai were shunned
by
>their Sidhelien brethren and mercilessly hunted by the humans. They fled to
the
>Underdark to avoid extermination. If you don't want dark elves, however, it
is
>easy to rationalize that the elves hated the Underdark so much that they
would
>never have fled there.

That doesn't explain Rhoubhe Manslayer. He stayed loyal to Azrai, and he is
still, in a sense, an elf. The other elves that stayed loyal to Azrai simply
stayed with Rhoubhe. The other elves, while they don't totally accept these
elves, don't totally shun them either. Rhoubhe and his followers could be
considered "dark elves" in a sense. But Drow, as they appear in Greyhawk or
FR, simply don't fit into the Birthright world. The normal elves are dangerous
enough.

[Memnoch]

Actually, again, I have spoken to the Various BR people at Gen Con and they
stated and the rulebook also states that the Sidhelein are the only race of
elves on (or below) Aebrynis. Now, this doesn't preclude the possibility of
inter-planar travel, but there are no BR native drow at least as far as the
official product goes. The reference to the dead drow in Warlock of the
Stonecrowns is an editorial error at least as far as I've been told...

Memnoch
- -----Original Message-----
From: Craig Greeson
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Drow?


>Greetings,
>IMO, it's totally up to the DM whether Dark Elves exist. In a few BR
products
>(particularly the adventure Warlock of the Stonecrowns) it is hinted that
they
>can be found. IMC they are. The Dark Elves are descendants of the elves
who
>remained loyal to Azrai in the War of Shadow and at Mt. Deismaar. I've
>rationalized it by saying the elves that stayed loyal to Azrai were shunned
by
>their Sidhelien brethren and mercilessly hunted by the humans. They fled
to the
>Underdark to avoid extermination. If you don't want dark elves, however,
it is
>easy to rationalize that the elves hated the Underdark so much that they
would
>never have fled there.
>
>Regards
>Craig
>
>patera wrote:
>>
>> Do drow exist under Aebrynis?
>>>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
line
>> 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[John Ewan]

At 23:05 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Actually, again, I have spoken to the Various BR people at Gen Con and they
>stated and the rulebook also states that the Sidhelein are the only race of
>elves on (or below) Aebrynis. Now, this doesn't preclude the possibility of
>inter-planar travel, but there are no BR native drow at least as far as the
>official product goes. The reference to the dead drow in Warlock of the
>Stonecrowns is an editorial error at least as far as I've been told...

I don't want drow in my BR campaign, I like the orogs being the bad guys
underground along with the goblins in places like Kal Karathor. However,
the drow description could be used to make for interesting denizens on the
Shadowworld; what would the court of Tuarheival be like there? The Thorn
Throne would be rather dangerous, I think.
John Ewan, Sysop | Look for me online at MPG-Net
Multi-Player Games Network | as Gimli jwe@mpgn.com
http://www.mpgn.com |

[Gary V. Foss]

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John Ewan wrote:

> At 23:05 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >Actually, again, I have spoken to the Various BR people at Gen Con and they
> >stated and the rulebook also states that the Sidhelein are the only race of
> >elves on (or below) Aebrynis. Now, this doesn't preclude the possibility of
> >inter-planar travel, but there are no BR native drow at least as far as the
> >official product goes. The reference to the dead drow in Warlock of the
> >Stonecrowns is an editorial error at least as far as I've been told...
>
> I don't want drow in my BR campaign, I like the orogs being the bad guys
> underground along with the goblins in places like Kal Karathor. However,
> the drow description could be used to make for interesting denizens on the
> Shadowworld; what would the court of Tuarheival be like there? The Thorn
> Throne would be rather dangerous, I think.

That's an interesting idea. The Thorn Throne could indeed be a pretty hairy
place to spend the weekend. Though I'm not wild about the thought of drow
inhabiting the Shadowworld. Putting drow (and gnomes that people have pointed
out might exist) in Cerilia just seems to water down the campaign setting IMO.

One of the things that differentiates BR from other worlds in the AD&D universe
is that there aren't half a dozen derivations of the demi-human races running
around. In fact, the opposite is true. Humans have subraces, demi-humans do
not. Personally, I like that. It never made sense to me that beings who breed
so much more slowly than humans (as almost all demi-human races seem to do) would
have a more diverse population. Oh, you can justify it by saying that its the
influence of the gods, or the cultural niche that the subraces found themselves
in, but at a certain point these justifications start getting a little contrived
and they take away from the epic feeling of the BR setting.

For the same reasons, I don't like psionics in BR, or planewalking, or very many
standard DMG magic items. These are things that belong to the generic AD&D
universe and, therefore, tend to blur the distinctiveness of the BR setting.

There will, no doubt, be an effort to throw more of these things into BR. In
fact, I'd say it has already begun. The folks at WoC/TSR have to pay attention
to the marketplace and their demographics just like anybody else trying to make a
living in what many people have found to be a shaky business. The generic AD&D
stuff sells. That's why it's still around. My rudimentary understanding of
marketing leads me to believe that from a marketing standpoint the more of that
stuff you get into a campaign world the more likely you are to keep that campaign
world alive.

Hmmm. This message has taken on a decidedly preachy tone that I hadn't really
intended when I started. I'll sign off now before I decide to pass around the
collection plate....

- -G.

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John Ewan wrote:
At 23:05 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Actually, again, I have spoken to the Various BR people at Gen Con
and they
>stated and the rulebook also states that the Sidhelein are the only
race of
>elves on (or below) Aebrynis.  Now, this doesn't preclude the
possibility of
>inter-planar travel, but there are no BR native drow at least as far
as the
>official product goes.  The reference to the dead drow in Warlock
of the
>Stonecrowns is an editorial error at least as far as I've been told...

I don't want drow in my BR campaign, I like the orogs being the bad
guys
underground along with the goblins in places like Kal Karathor. 
However,
the drow description could be used to make for interesting denizens
on the
Shadowworld; what would the court of Tuarheival be like there? 
The Thorn
Throne would be rather dangerous, I think. <g>
That's an interesting idea.  The Thorn Throne could indeed be a pretty
hairy place to spend the weekend.  Though I'm not wild about the thought
of drow inhabiting the Shadowworld.  Putting drow (and gnomes that
people have pointed out might exist) in Cerilia just seems to water
down the campaign setting IMO.

One of the things that differentiates BR from other worlds in the AD&D
universe is that there aren't half a dozen derivations of the demi-human
races running around.  In fact, the opposite is true.  Humans
have subraces, demi-humans do not.  Personally, I like that. 
It never made sense to me that beings who breed so much more slowly than
humans (as almost all demi-human races seem to do) would have a more diverse
population.  Oh, you can justify it by saying that its the influence
of the gods, or the cultural niche that the subraces found themselves in,
but at a certain point these justifications start getting a little contrived
and they take away from the epic feeling of the BR setting.

For the same reasons, I don't like psionics in BR, or planewalking,
or very many standard DMG magic items.  These are things that belong
to the generic AD&D universe and, therefore, tend to blur the distinctiveness
of the BR setting.

There will, no doubt, be an effort to throw more of these things into
BR.  In fact, I'd say it has already begun.  The folks at WoC/TSR
have to pay attention to the marketplace and their demographics just like
anybody else trying to make a living in what many people have found to
be a shaky business.  The generic AD&D stuff sells.  That's
why it's still around.  My rudimentary understanding of marketing
leads me to believe that from a marketing standpoint the more of that stuff
you get into a campaign world the more likely you are to keep that campaign
world alive.

Hmmm.  This message has taken on a decidedly preachy tone that
I hadn't really intended when I started.  I'll sign off now before
I decide to pass around the collection plate....

-G.

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[Phil Burge]

LordSchmit wrote:

> That doesn't explain Rhoubhe Manslayer. He stayed loyal to Azrai, and he is
> still, in a sense, an elf. The other elves that stayed loyal to Azrai simply
> stayed with Rhoubhe. The other elves, while they don't totally accept these
> elves, don't totally shun them either. Rhoubhe and his followers could be
> considered "dark elves" in a sense. But Drow, as they appear in Greyhawk or
> FR, simply don't fit into the Birthright world. The normal elves are dangerous
> enough.

Rhoubhe Manslayer did not remain loyal to Azari as such but fought on
his side as Azari was, like Rhoubhe, intent on destroying humanity. I am
inclined to think that Rhoubhe felt (and feels) no loyalty to Azari at
all, they were simply two beings with the same goals working together.

Phil.

[Brian Stoner]

At first, I thought there were no Drow. Then I saw the mention of them in
Warlock of The Stonecrowns. I concluded that the original intention (and indeed,
the current idea) is that there are no Drow. I decided that for the sake of
keeping things in that campaign "by the book", as it was my first, I would make
up a reason. I told the elves of the party that there were Drow on Cerilia.
These Drow however, were few and far beneath the surface...farther down than the
Dwarves or Orogs ever went. Elves, Orogs, and Dwarves knew of them...but no
human did, or ever had. And, they were so rare, that they were not likely to
ever encounter them.

My subsequent campaigns do not have them...at all. But, the possibility of some
sort of Dark Elf in the Shadow World intrigues me...

Brian...aka Dearnen