Bloodlines and Inheritance

[Pieter A de Jong]

In recent discussions of inheritance and how bloodlines are passed
on there has been a suggestion that John Roele, Bloodstrength 100 and Jane
Doe, Bloodstrength 30, can get together and have 3 children, each of which
will have
a 65 bloodstrength. When John Roele dies and one child inherits, there will
be 2 children with a 65 bloodstrength and 1 child with a 100 bloodstrength.
Assuming Jane Doe also died (without passing on her bloodline) we are then
left with a total bloodstrength of 230, having started with 130. It seems
unreasonable that the total amount of godly essence around is steadily
increasing without any connection to the power of the land (collected
regency). My question is should bloodlines be conservative? (Like
conservation of energy, the total amount of bloodstrength out there should
not increase without added strength from an outside source, i.e. bloodline
strength raised through accumulated regency)

Pieter A de Jong
Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-03-24 11:06:35 EST, you write:

> egency). My question is should bloodlines be conservative? (Like
> conservation of energy, the total amount of bloodstrength out there should
> not increase without added strength from an outside source, i.e. bloodline
> strength raised through accumulated regency)
>
I think in a realistic sense the bloodlines are, overall, roughly conserved in
spite of the evidence you gave to the contrary. We mustn't forget the acts of
blood theft and regicide that happen with nail-biting regularity in the world
of Aebrynis. Producing offspring with bloodlines whose total is much greater
than the parents' totals are then necessary in order to achieve a balance.

In other words, if there were an ever-increasing number of scions running
around in the world, these scions would soon be going about with greater
frequency sticking each other through the heart to absorb whatever portion of
bloodline they could from their victims. And the overall gross amount of
blood points would then decrease.

It's therefore much faster to loose a great deal from the gross total of
bloodpoints in Cerilia than it is to gain them, since it takes longer to
conceive and give birth to new scions than it does to kill them. So let them
try to multiply like rabbits. It's going to even out in the end anyway.

At least, this is my take on the matter. ;)

- -DKE

[Pieter A de Jong]

At 12:04 PM 3/24/98 -0500, you wrote:

>I think in a realistic sense the bloodlines are, overall, roughly conserved in
>spite of the evidence you gave to the contrary. We mustn't forget the acts of
>blood theft and regicide that happen with nail-biting regularity in the world
>of Aebrynis. Producing offspring with bloodlines whose total is much greater
>than the parents' totals are then necessary in order to achieve a balance.
>
>In other words, if there were an ever-increasing number of scions running
>around in the world, these scions would soon be going about with greater
>frequency sticking each other through the heart to absorb whatever portion of
>bloodline they could from their victims. And the overall gross amount of
>blood points would then decrease.
>
>It's therefore much faster to loose a great deal from the gross total of
>bloodpoints in Cerilia than it is to gain them, since it takes longer to
>conceive and give birth to new scions than it does to kill them. So let them
>try to multiply like rabbits. It's going to even out in the end anyway.
>
>At least, this is my take on the matter. ;)
>
>-DKE
>************************************************** *************************
>>In general, such quasi-conservation would occur. I am just wondering how
you keep evil PC's/NPC's from doing just what was ascribed to the Gorgon.
(having a harem and committing bloodtheft on the offspring). The other
question such quasi-conservation raises is what happens to the lost
bloodstrength (godly essence) does it just evaporate? Is it absorbed by the
land? Does it result in local lifeforms being changed by and infusion of
godly essence?

Pieter A de Jong
Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

[DKEvermore]

In a message dated 98-03-24 12:31:58 EST, you write:

> In general, such quasi-conservation would occur. I am just wondering how
> you keep evil PC's/NPC's from doing just what was ascribed to the Gorgon.
> (having a harem and committing bloodtheft on the offspring). The other
> question such quasi-conservation raises is what happens to the lost
> bloodstrength (godly essence) does it just evaporate? Is it absorbed by the
> land? Does it result in local lifeforms being changed by and infusion of
> godly essence?
>
Good questions, and I think these would have as many answers as there are DMs.
I don't believe there is any specific rulings on the matter. IMC, alignments
should limit the harvesting behavior. If a PC does have an alignment which is
tolerant of slaughtering one's own offspring, then soon I believe this PC
would have other problems... ;)

I would also assume lost bloodstrength is absorbed back into the world of
Aebrynis, but I'm interested in other people's ideas on this, too. And the
question of it changing/transforming the local life is one I hadn't considered
yet...

- -DKE

[Adam Theo]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- --------------14C48175B4C89474D381199E
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

hello, Adam Theo here,
well, all i have to say is that, sure, conservation of energy can work in this
'bloodpoints' thing. after all, using the conservation of energy law, and
einstein's e=mc^2, which together say that matter can be interchangable with
energy and to get more of one you have to decrease a proportional amount of the
other, we can easily say that:
Bloodline Points used by mortals in BR are one side of the coin, and as the
number of and strength of the scions in Cerilia increase, then some other factor
has to decrease.
let's say that as Bloodline Points increase across the world, then something
else (the strength of the new Cerilian gods, the 'life energy' of nature, the
barrier between the Shadow World and Cerilia) decreases. how's that?

Pieter A de Jong wrote:

> In recent discussions of inheritance and how bloodlines are passed
> on there has been a suggestion that John Roele, Bloodstrength 100 and Jane
> Doe, Bloodstrength 30, can get together and have 3 children, each of which
> will have
> a 65 bloodstrength. When John Roele dies and one child inherits, there will
> be 2 children with a 65 bloodstrength and 1 child with a 100 bloodstrength.
> Assuming Jane Doe also died (without passing on her bloodline) we are then
> left with a total bloodstrength of 230, having started with 130. It seems
> unreasonable that the total amount of godly essence around is steadily
> increasing without any connection to the power of the land (collected
> regency). My question is should bloodlines be conservative? (Like
> conservation of energy, the total amount of bloodstrength out there should
> not increase without added strength from an outside source, i.e. bloodline
> strength raised through............................

- --------------14C48175B4C89474D381199E
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Adam Theo
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"

begin: vcard
fn: Adam Theo
n: Theo;Adam
org: Theorie WebWorks
adr: 3101 Elwood Trail;;;Tallahassee;Florida;32308;United States of America
email;internet: adamtheo@usa.net
title: Owner, Webmaster, Internet Consultant
tel;work: 850 894 1661
tel;home: 850 894 1661
x-mozilla-cpt: ;0
x-mozilla-html: TRUE
version: 2.1
end: vcard


- --------------14C48175B4C89474D381199E--

[rad smith]

On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Adam Theo wrote:


> well, all i have to say is that, sure, conservation of energy can work
> in this 'bloodpoints' thing. after all, using the conservation of
> energy law, and einstein's e=mc^2, which together say that matter can be
> interchangable with energy and to get more of one you have to decrease a
> proportional amount of the other, we can easily say that:

you can easily /say/ it, but you can't necessarily say it correctly or
justifiably.

firstly, it's "magic" (or divine, which is the same but bigger) and is
thus not necessarily susceptible to scientific analysis. (or indeed
rational thought)

secondly, there is no particular reason why the laws of physics are the
same in adnd as they are IRL. in fact, if you take spelljammer as canon,
they they are definitely *not*.

> Bloodline Points used by mortals in BR are one side of the coin, and as
> the number of and strength of the scions in Cerilia increase, then some
> other factor has to decrease.

as to this "conservation of bloodstrength" thing; bloodstrength appears to
be highly non-linear. 5 random scions of 20 bloodstrength do not the
gorgon make.


- --
rad

just because something might be the case does not make it
intrinsically worthy of investigation. the human navel
might contain untold secrets of the universe; presumably
that is why so many spend so long in contemplation of it.

[Pieter A de Jong]

At 12:54 PM 3/26/98 +0000, rad smith wrote:

>
>as to this "conservation of bloodstrength" thing; bloodstrength appears to
>be highly non-linear. 5 random scions of 20 bloodstrength do not the
>gorgon make.
>
>
>--
>rad
>
This isn't really the point I was trying to get to. What I was asking is
where does the extra bloodstrength come from? As in yes, bloodstrength is
clearly a
non-linear quantity, but more and more is generated with each passing
generation. I used to believe that when the old gods died they released their
godly life-force and this is what made up the bloodlines. However, this
would be a finite (if large) quantity. This was then collected in various
beings, with the gods champions collecting the large majority of it and
ascending to godhood. The remainder is passed on from generation to
generation. But, the example with John Roele and Jane Doe makes it clear
that more godly life force/ bloodstrength is being generated. I would like
to hear where people think it comes from.

Pieter A de Jong
Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

[Gary V. Foss]

Pieter A de Jong wrote:

> At 12:54 PM 3/26/98 +0000, rad smith wrote:
> >
> >as to this "conservation of bloodstrength" thing; bloodstrength appears to
> >be highly non-linear. 5 random scions of 20 bloodstrength do not the
> >gorgon make.
> >
> This isn't really the point I was trying to get to. What I was asking is
> where does the extra bloodstrength come from? As in yes, bloodstrength is
> clearly a
> non-linear quantity, but more and more is generated with each passing
> generation. I used to believe that when the old gods died they released their
> godly life-force and this is what made up the bloodlines. However, this
> would be a finite (if large) quantity. This was then collected in various
> beings, with the gods champions collecting the large majority of it and
> ascending to godhood. The remainder is passed on from generation to
> generation. But, the example with John Roele and Jane Doe makes it clear
> that more godly life force/ bloodstrength is being generated. I would like
> to hear where people think it comes from.

I like to think of bloodlines as being something came from the gods, but can be
expanded upon by the mortals. There is no "maximum" amount of bloodstrength in
the universe, otherwise entropy would take over and the power of the gods would
fizzle out sooner or later. The power of the gods is more like yeast. Put a glop
of it in the corner with something to grow on and it will. Put another glop in
another corner from the original sample and that will grow too. Theoretically,
everyone could have some of the divine essence in them eventually.

- -Gary

[veryfastperson@juno.com]

>>as to this "conservation of bloodstrength" thing; bloodstrength
>appears to
>>be highly non-linear. 5 random scions of 20 bloodstrength do not the
>>gorgon make.

>This isn't really the point I was trying to get to. What I was asking
>is
>where does the extra bloodstrength come from? As in yes, bloodstrength
>is
>clearly a
>non-linear quantity, but more and more is generated with each passing
>generation. I used to believe that when the old gods died they
>released their
>godly life-force and this is what made up the bloodlines. However,
>this
>would be a finite (if large) quantity. This was then collected in
>various
>beings, with the gods champions collecting the large majority of it
>and
>ascending to godhood. The remainder is passed on from generation to
>generation. But, the example with John Roele and Jane Doe makes it
>clear
>that more godly life force/ bloodstrength is being generated. I would
>like
>to hear where people think it comes from.

hmm, i have always been led to believe that when the gods divine essance
washed over those present at diesmaar, their /physical/ bodies were
changed. i'm not sure, but i think that's mentioned in the boxed set.
that is why people can keep having children that have bloodlines (in the
John Roele and Jane Doe example). the "godly essance" was a one time
deal... people today just have something similar to a mutiation of the
blood that makes them different.

__________________________________________________ ___________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Pieter A de Jong wrote:

> where does the extra bloodstrength come from? As in yes, bloodstrength is
> clearly a
> non-linear quantity, but more and more is generated with each passing
> generation. I used to believe that when the old gods died they released their
> godly life-force and this is what made up the bloodlines. However, this
> would be a finite (if large) quantity. This was then collected in various
> beings, with the gods champions collecting the large majority of it and
> ascending to godhood. The remainder is passed on from generation to
> generation. But, the example with John Roele and Jane Doe makes it clear
> that more godly life force/ bloodstrength is being generated. I would like
> to hear where people think it comes from.

It is well known that gods can reproduce (i.e. Laerme and Eloele), and
presumably can do so without reducing their own power. Thus "godpower"
acts more like a biological "substance" (like regular blood) rather than a
physical "substance" subject to laws of conservation of mass and energy.
That is, it is a product of certain living organisms, produced naturally
as part of their normal functions. The addition of "godsblood" simply
added that "part" or "module" of superhuman biology to normal humans,
without fundamentally changing them in any other way. It might be more
realistic to portray children as "growing" in bloodstrength as they reach
maturity (and reaching "full strength" by age 14 or so).

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Pieter A de Jong]

At 03:18 PM 3/26/98 -0500,Mark VanderMeulen wrote:
>
>It is well known that gods can reproduce (i.e. Laerme and Eloele), and
>presumably can do so without reducing their own power. Thus "godpower"
>acts more like a biological "substance" (like regular blood) rather than a
>physical "substance" subject to laws of conservation of mass and energy.
>That is, it is a product of certain living organisms, produced naturally
>as part of their normal functions. The addition of "godsblood" simply
>added that "part" or "module" of superhuman biology to normal humans,
>without fundamentally changing them in any other way. It might be more
>realistic to portray children as "growing" in bloodstrength as they reach
>maturity (and reaching "full strength" by age 14 or so).
>
>Mark VanderMeulen
>vander+@pitt.edu
>
All right, god power grows as a biological system. Then as god power can be
accumulated in individuals, are we sooner or later going to see more divine
ascensions a la Diesmaar; as one scion (or awnsheglien) accumulates enough
bloodline strength from this biological growth in the amount of god power in
the environment?
General question : How many people believe that accumulation of a large
enough bloodline strength would result in Divine ascension?

Pieter A de Jong
Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

[veryfastperson@juno.com]

>General question : How many people believe that accumulation of a
>large
>enough bloodline strength would result in Divine ascension?

Count me on that list. I am a firm believer in Divine ascension through
bloodline acqumulation. (sorta gives a guy hope that he too can get into
heaven w/o formal accpetance:)

__________________________________________________ ___________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

[Gary V. Foss]

Pieter A de Jong wrote:

> All right, god power grows as a biological system. Then as god power can be
> accumulated in individuals, are we sooner or later going to see more divine
> ascensions a la Diesmaar; as one scion (or awnsheglien) accumulates enough
> bloodline strength from this biological growth in the amount of god power in
> the environment?
> General question : How many people believe that accumulation of a large
> enough bloodline strength would result in Divine ascension?

Well, if it would the Gorgon would have probably done it by now. He's had 1,500
years.... Maybe that is his LONG term goal, but even if it is, I don't see
dozens of Cerilians getting enough power to become gods all that quick....

On the other hand, there aren't too many gods in BR. Maybe a couple of divine
ascensions would do the pantheon some good!

- -Gary

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Pieter A de Jong wrote:

> All right, god power grows as a biological system. Then as god power can be
> accumulated in individuals, are we sooner or later going to see more divine
> ascensions a la Diesmaar; as one scion (or awnsheglien) accumulates enough
> bloodline strength from this biological growth in the amount of god power in
> the environment?
> General question : How many people believe that accumulation of a large
> enough bloodline strength would result in Divine ascension?

I see such ascensions as possible, although very, very difficult. The
Serpent certainly seems to be having a go in that direction, what with his
little Serpent Cultists running around (AND casting spells successfully, I
might add). It probably won't be a problem for most PC's, as it seems
likely to require the blood ability Immortality, which I believe only
comes with Azrai's derivation (although also seems to be available to
other derivations once the Ersheigh transformation has occured). But, of
course, once a PC has successfully completed the transformation to
Awn/Ersheighlein, they become NPC's.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Drake90094]

god like ascension? umm..no.


ray

[Aaron Sanderson]

>> General question : How many people believe that accumulation of a
large
>> enough bloodline strength would result in Divine ascension?
>
>Well, if it would the Gorgon would have probably done it by now. He's
had 1,500
>years.... Maybe that is his LONG term goal, but even if it is, I don't
see
>dozens of Cerilians getting enough power to become gods all that
quick....

The way I read it is that the Gorgan and most of the other major ansh.
recieved almost as much blood as did the other champions. But that for
some strange reason were not elevated to the position of diety. Given
the hints about the Cold Rider being Azari (just read the previews
section of the TSR web page) I would say that they weren't because their
god, Azari, is still around (although limited to the Shadow World).
Which gives rise to the idea that there can only be a limited number of
gods and that one must die for another to rise.

Just a few thoughts,
A.



__________________________________________________ ____
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Anthony K.G.Shewan]

Pieter A de Jong asks:
> General question : How many people believe that accumulation of a large
> enough bloodline strength would result in Divine ascension?
>

I believe it. The Ascension of the new gods came with the absorption of
the destroyed gods "blood" (divine essence). Everyone (well almost) at
Deismar absorbed the same "blood" just in lower doses. So if, for example,
Haelyn ascended because he simply absorbed most of Andurias' "blood", why
couldn't someone else. How much would it take? Hopefully more than any sane
DM would be willing to allow. But then again instead of uniting Anuire or
conquering Cerilia as a campaign thread, maybe ascension to godhood would
strike someone's fancy. Not me, but you never know :)

Regards
Anthony K.G. Shewan
abcdshewan@coastnet.com

[Jonathan Picklesimer]

On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Aaron Sanderson wrote:

> The way I read it is that the Gorgan and most of the other major ansh.
> recieved almost as much blood as did the other champions. But that for
> some strange reason were not elevated to the position of diety. Given
> the hints about the Cold Rider being Azari (just read the previews
> section of the TSR web page) I would say that they weren't because their
> god, Azari, is still around (although limited to the Shadow World).
> Which gives rise to the idea that there can only be a limited number of
> gods and that one must die for another to rise.
>

So how do you explain the ascension of both Kreisha and Belenik. If there
can only be a limited number of gods, then why did these two ascend to
replace Azrai? I don't think that it is an anomolly limited by the number
of gods. We know that Raesane was highly favored by Azrai, but not
necessarily his chapion. The same is true of Rhoube. You must also
consider that there are awnsheighlen around who were not present at
Desimaar. They have built their power through blood theft. Just because
the Gorgon now has an unreal blood strength, does that mean he has always
had a blood strength that high?

I feel that we are operating here on some assumptions taht we are unable
to verify. How do we know that the old gods did not predetermine who
their predecessors would be and that only these chosen few actaually
ascended to godhood status. The BoP discusses in the Rournil section how
Vorynn gave Rournil an amulet of an owl before the battle began. Perhaps
it was this amulet that held the essence of Vorynn and when his physical
body was destroyed, he essence became part of Rournil. We have no
evidence that the other gods did not do the same.

I feel that if there was someone running around Cerillia with a desire to
be god and a fairly decent bloodline strength that there would be several
major players, perhaps even chosen of the current gods, who would be more
than happy to send the arrogant fool to meet THE gods of Cerillia a little
sooner than he had expected, and on slightly different footing than he had
hoped.

Just my 2 GBs
jsp