enq@completesystems.com.
08-31-1998, 04:21 AM
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Sindre Berg wrote in reply to Daniel McSorley;
Though the book says later that the firearms was the ther real "killers"
of the knights on the battlefield...(though then we are talking
1400-1450 and out)
You got that bit from an encyclopedia ???
1415 was the year that Henry V whipped the French at Agincourt - with =
longbow, I recall no use of firearms, with the possible exception of =
cannon. There were also Swiss cross-bowmen present, but that's another =
story.
Mid 1500's, field plate was still being used (check out Henry Niii's =
suit that he wore while campaigning in France), over the next century, =
it's use did dwindle out for a number of reasons. Historians did assume =
for many years given the evidence like so many breastplates with no =
other mark on them but a single bullethole. Sounds like a reasonable =
assumption, doesn't it? Museums (as they do), collected a lot of this =
stuff, shiny -as-new breastplates with a single hole (identifiable as =
that caused by a musket ball), and several very used breastplates with =
many dents. I don't recall who, but someone, this century, decided that =
this looked a little odd and got hold of the records from a company that =
rolled out bulk breast-plates during the time of Cromwell (late 1600 or =
early 1700, I think) and found that each plate upon finishing was placed =
against a sandbag and were fired at with a musket from a certain =
yardage. If they were pierced by the shot, they were rejected, if not, =
they were proven as saleable!
This was followed by Darryl Willis;
Hmm....Same as the battle of Agincourt, if I'm not mistaken. But, and =
this
is a big "but", the reason the English longbow was so devastating to the
French knights was not the extreme penetrating power, but the fact that =
the
knights were riding horses. Horses are killed by arrows rather quickly,
just like an unarmored human. The knights were pretty well protected =
from
the longbow. Their horses, however, were not.
Ouch! Horses of the time wore barding, in the case of the French =
nobility (and don't forget the high percentage of titled French on the =
field that day), the barding was of the same type as the armor that the =
rider wore.
Penetration power: bodies have been dug up from that field (not every =
corpse was placed in a mass grave, or carted home for burial in some =
family plot), and there are several examples of where a single arrow has =
pierced several layers of such armor. The most relevant to this =
discourse is where an arrow had passed through both sides of a full =
greave (lower leg armor), the leg bone, the PLATE barding of the horse =
and out the other side.
I'll get off the soapbox now and be quiet again now shall I ? ;-)
Regards all,
Dubhghaill (Doyle)
Victoria, Australia, 613 9563 5085
enq@completesystems.com.au
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Sindre Berg wrote in reply to Daniel McSorley;
Though the book says later that the firearms was the ther real "killers"
of the knights on the battlefield...(though then we are talking
1400-1450 and out)
You got that bit from an encyclopedia ???
1415 was the year that Henry V whipped the French at Agincourt - with =
longbow, I recall no use of firearms, with the possible exception of =
cannon. There were also Swiss cross-bowmen present, but that's another =
story.
Mid 1500's, field plate was still being used (check out Henry Niii's =
suit that he wore while campaigning in France), over the next century, =
it's use did dwindle out for a number of reasons. Historians did assume =
for many years given the evidence like so many breastplates with no =
other mark on them but a single bullethole. Sounds like a reasonable =
assumption, doesn't it? Museums (as they do), collected a lot of this =
stuff, shiny -as-new breastplates with a single hole (identifiable as =
that caused by a musket ball), and several very used breastplates with =
many dents. I don't recall who, but someone, this century, decided that =
this looked a little odd and got hold of the records from a company that =
rolled out bulk breast-plates during the time of Cromwell (late 1600 or =
early 1700, I think) and found that each plate upon finishing was placed =
against a sandbag and were fired at with a musket from a certain =
yardage. If they were pierced by the shot, they were rejected, if not, =
they were proven as saleable!
This was followed by Darryl Willis;
Hmm....Same as the battle of Agincourt, if I'm not mistaken. But, and =
this
is a big "but", the reason the English longbow was so devastating to the
French knights was not the extreme penetrating power, but the fact that =
the
knights were riding horses. Horses are killed by arrows rather quickly,
just like an unarmored human. The knights were pretty well protected =
from
the longbow. Their horses, however, were not.
Ouch! Horses of the time wore barding, in the case of the French =
nobility (and don't forget the high percentage of titled French on the =
field that day), the barding was of the same type as the armor that the =
rider wore.
Penetration power: bodies have been dug up from that field (not every =
corpse was placed in a mass grave, or carted home for burial in some =
family plot), and there are several examples of where a single arrow has =
pierced several layers of such armor. The most relevant to this =
discourse is where an arrow had passed through both sides of a full =
greave (lower leg armor), the leg bone, the PLATE barding of the horse =
and out the other side.
I'll get off the soapbox now and be quiet again now shall I ? ;-)
Regards all,
Dubhghaill (Doyle)
Victoria, Australia, 613 9563 5085
enq@completesystems.com.au
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