Kenneth Gauck
11-03-1998, 03:12 PM
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gary V. Foss
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 12:42 AM
>
>Actually, this is part of my problem with the concept of chivalry in both
the BR
>setting and AD&D in general. Chivalry was not just a warrior's code based
upon
>self-interest used on the battlefield. It was a philosophy and lifestyle
>adopted by the upper classes, and comprised a culture more than just a code
of
>conduct.
Gary, I completly agree that the total cultural baggage of Western Europe is
not neccesarily a part of Cerilia. However the fact that warriors
everywhere have some kind of code of what constitutes a proper fight
strongly suggests that Cerilia has such a code. It would certainly be
distinctive if it did not. This is why I have constantly argued for a
minimal interpretation of the code to just the warriors battlefield conduct.
The other stuff you can take it or leave it (mush of it I would consider
archaic in Cerilia).
>
>Aside from the fact that I just don't see chivalry being the only logical
code
>of battlefield behavior that could be arrived at (which doesn't exactly
explain
>why it isn't still being used)
I specifically refered to a generalized warrior's code, and once referenced
Bushido. I am *not* talking about any precise code, only that warriors
always have them. Birthright's god of Noble War is also the god of Law,
which for me is enough to per-suppose a formal code of conduct. Further
given the close role of Cuiraécen and Haelyn, I would go so far as to say
the chaotic knights of the stormlord would honor such a code to some extent,
some of the time.
I would also agree with you, Gary, that the various cultures of Cerilia
would have different warrior codes. The Vos code of the warrior is no doubt
derived from Belinik, and may specifically prohibit the taking of prisoners.
But a "proper" warrior style will exist there too. Modeled on Belinik's
exploits or his doctrines, or what have you. I think alot of the warrior
code among the Vos has to do with saving face, and may resemble some of the
harsher aspects of Klingon society (to borrow another society loosely based
on savage Russians).
Outside the Vos, I do think that noble conduct is valued, and plays a part
in the warrior code. Avani, as goddess of reason, no doubt has encouraged a
very enlightened approach to mitigating the horrors of war. I would not be
suprised if the skills of parlay were very highly developed there.
Among the Rjurick, the life preserving spirit of Erik would no doubt frown
on the execution of prisioners, and prefer the re-unification of families,
so that men can return to the fields and forrests.
If the Brechts are so profit minded, I imagine that would extend to their
soldiers as well, so that troops may have contractual protections obligating
their regent to ransom them like any other business contract.
Don't get too hung up on the word "chivalry" I don't mean (and think I was
clear in saying so) western Europe c. 1250. I mean a self interested code
which limits attrocity and scourage on both sides. Haelyn would most
certainly approve.
Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net
From: Gary V. Foss
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 12:42 AM
>
>Actually, this is part of my problem with the concept of chivalry in both
the BR
>setting and AD&D in general. Chivalry was not just a warrior's code based
upon
>self-interest used on the battlefield. It was a philosophy and lifestyle
>adopted by the upper classes, and comprised a culture more than just a code
of
>conduct.
Gary, I completly agree that the total cultural baggage of Western Europe is
not neccesarily a part of Cerilia. However the fact that warriors
everywhere have some kind of code of what constitutes a proper fight
strongly suggests that Cerilia has such a code. It would certainly be
distinctive if it did not. This is why I have constantly argued for a
minimal interpretation of the code to just the warriors battlefield conduct.
The other stuff you can take it or leave it (mush of it I would consider
archaic in Cerilia).
>
>Aside from the fact that I just don't see chivalry being the only logical
code
>of battlefield behavior that could be arrived at (which doesn't exactly
explain
>why it isn't still being used)
I specifically refered to a generalized warrior's code, and once referenced
Bushido. I am *not* talking about any precise code, only that warriors
always have them. Birthright's god of Noble War is also the god of Law,
which for me is enough to per-suppose a formal code of conduct. Further
given the close role of Cuiraécen and Haelyn, I would go so far as to say
the chaotic knights of the stormlord would honor such a code to some extent,
some of the time.
I would also agree with you, Gary, that the various cultures of Cerilia
would have different warrior codes. The Vos code of the warrior is no doubt
derived from Belinik, and may specifically prohibit the taking of prisoners.
But a "proper" warrior style will exist there too. Modeled on Belinik's
exploits or his doctrines, or what have you. I think alot of the warrior
code among the Vos has to do with saving face, and may resemble some of the
harsher aspects of Klingon society (to borrow another society loosely based
on savage Russians).
Outside the Vos, I do think that noble conduct is valued, and plays a part
in the warrior code. Avani, as goddess of reason, no doubt has encouraged a
very enlightened approach to mitigating the horrors of war. I would not be
suprised if the skills of parlay were very highly developed there.
Among the Rjurick, the life preserving spirit of Erik would no doubt frown
on the execution of prisioners, and prefer the re-unification of families,
so that men can return to the fields and forrests.
If the Brechts are so profit minded, I imagine that would extend to their
soldiers as well, so that troops may have contractual protections obligating
their regent to ransom them like any other business contract.
Don't get too hung up on the word "chivalry" I don't mean (and think I was
clear in saying so) western Europe c. 1250. I mean a self interested code
which limits attrocity and scourage on both sides. Haelyn would most
certainly approve.
Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net