Roele the Title

[Magian]

While I am sitting in my western civilization class I am in awe at all the material and ideas that I can use for Birthright.

One such idea comes from the Roman title of Augustus. Could we not use Roele to embelish this? For example say that Boeruine conquers Avan and his vassals then unites the empire or consolidates at least some of the warring factions under his rule could we not, or the Imperial Temple, name him Aeric Roele?

[Mortis]

Are we writing some new story to carry on the birthright timeline? If so would love to get involved. But i think you are slightly mistaken to have boeruine make any significant gain. My first bet would be another gorgon push into mhoried and Cariele. But that could spark a mjor sugence of new wars. Most notably led by Ghoere. I always figured Ghoere would make a giant pact with Alamie and Osoerde, secretly at first, and have them slowly expand influence in Tuornen. Then declare war either on them or head south into Roesone. Those three nations could field a massive army and with the distraction of another gorgon rampage, could cause some serious problems. And of course, though endier would try to stay neutral, it could easily be forced into the pact by sheer force of power, adfter all, ghoere has a way with getting what it wants, especially under the Baron's rule :)
Also, i figure before they took action, they would try to entice the pot to boil over in the boeruine avanil struggle sending those two into a major war. Anyways, these are some of my idea's, but this is just if updating timeline As for your idea, i do like that and it sounds cool, but i doubt the other nations would go for it, nor allow boeruine to gain control.

[Lord Eldred]

The cool thing about Birthright and any role playing game for that matter is you can make happen anything that you can imagine and your DM allows. In our campaign, Roesone has been taken over by a ruling council that has conquered Ilien. Taken over Osoerde. And is expanding its influence in all of the surrounding territories. What binds the council is its dedication to expanding the influence of Haelyn.

[Magian]

I thank you for your insight and ideas of how the progress of events would transpire, though I don't think the three evil rulers could trust each other enough to make much of anything last long.

However, with sufficient plotting Boeruine is the prime candidate for such a task, that is with a canny player at the helm. This is of course contrary to the popular Avanil and Mhoried candidates.

To the original point, I think this game parrallels very closely with our actual history hence my idea of the honorable title of Roele bestowed upon worthy rulers. Also I would rather think a new empire come about from the east similar to Islam under the name of Avani which also parallels our history.

To the other response, yes I agree that this game is great in that you can do anything that you want to DM willing which makes it wonderful and limited to the imagination. That is why each campaign is unique and worth discussing to spark new ideas. But of course for any plot we could come up with innumerable counter plots, all part of the fun.

[morgramen]

I VERY MUCH liek the idea of using Roele the title!!

I think it would suit rather well to have the heir appearant officially become known as "Bobby Roele" upon gaining the title of Emperor. This would also signify the transition from a Lord being tied to a specific family/house/land, and instead be tied to the entire realm - a very important aspect of the position I think. It would not due for the Emperor to so visibly retain a direct and public link to his ancestral lands and family. THe Emperor IS Anuire, not Boeuine or Avanil or Mhoried.

I don't think that any of the big candidates would rock the boat either with this concept. Boeruine is a staunch traditionalist in my opinion, and if it was done a thousand years ago, it is still done in Boeruine today. Avan I think is a bit more .... opportunistic and more of a present day politician - cunning and crafty.

BTW - it is blaspheme to inmply that the great Barony of Roesone should ever fall to conquest! NEVER!!!

;)

If you can't tell, I'm a BIG TIME Roesone fan...

[Lord Eldred]

The Barony of Roesone didn't exactly fall to conquest. Marlae was given a potion over time that made her go insane. A ruling council had to take over or the country would have falling to conquest. Over time the council renamed the country to reflect its new mission. Thus Roesone and some of its neighbors are now the United Provinces of Haelyn.

[Chioran]

And what a gloriously expansive country it is. Long live the UPofH!

[Leland]

Its an interesting concept I agree. But what happens if somewhere, somehow someone pops up with the true bloodline of Anduiras because they are desended from the Roeles. In The Iron Throne, Michael Roele did have seven sisters after all.

[Abbess Allessandra]

It would seem to me that the DM would have to take charge in whether or not that would happen.

[Leland]

That stands to reason as bloodlines like that don't just pop up unless the DM makes it happen. But if someone had titled themselves Roele (like a player character) how is that player going to react when the True bloodline of Anduiras shows up again? I was asking a rhetorical question anyway.

Leland

[Magian]

In all honesty every noble house is descended from the house of Roele in some for or another not only from Michael's generation but from previous generations which makes this very much like the wars over France and England, meaning everyone has a right to rule.

Aside from this, though it could be a campaign exclusive outlook, even if the son, grandson, or nephew of ceasar came and laid claim to the Holy Roman empire I doubt Charlamagne or the Pope would give much thought of it in serious light.

Roele the title once bestowed upon a new line/house would in my opinion supercede all other claimants simply because there is a new emperor who himself has the imperial authority, hence a new dynasty (hopefully).

The title prince to the named Duke of Avanil could be a result of something similar to this in a vain attempt by the WIT to grant him more claim over the iron throne. I am curious how Avanil did get the title prince according to the game creators, especially since Boeruine has been an Archduke since the early empire and Avanil was only a Duke.

[Lawgiver]

One of my campaign has taken a bit of a different look at things. The central character is Aeric Donalls of Talinie. In actually he is Aeric Roele (though he has yet to find out...). He is the son of one of the sisters of Michael Roele. He was taken to the elven realm of Tuarhievel at birth (the populace was told he and the mother died during childbirth). The thane sent a letter to Aedan the Chamberlain explaining what truly happened along with half of an amulet.
Aeric's father knew the chaos that would ensue after Michael's death and did not wish to see his son murdered in some foul plot to eliminate the empirical heirs. Aeric emerged from the woods of Taurhievel ten years ago (having aged only mildly due to the high consentrations of mebhaighl in the elven land) and was adopted by the current thane of Talinie Thuirine Donalls. He has yet to uncover the truth of his past, but he has the amulet and has been having visions as of late...

[Magian]

Ok I will bite my tongue on this and save us all my spiel on Boeruine's right to rule. ;)

[Lord Eldred]

Boeruine has no right to rule. His ascension to the throne would be like making the Gorgon ruler or the Spider. Haelyn will choose a rightful heir and I am sure it will not be Boeruine. :P

[morgramen]

I thought I read somewhere (in the Atlas perhaps??) that the regent who holds the province of Anuire is, by default, named a Prince.
I seem to recall a snippet in there about how Anuire is considered to be the Princely province, and is basically a Princapilty.

Or maybe I've bumped my head again.

I think Avan (as per previous Morg posts) is over rated. Boeruine has sufered the butt end of the stick. T osolve the problem howeve, I think the lovely and magnificent Marlae Roesone should ascend the Throne and rule the Empire!!!

Oh yes baby, it's gonna happen.... Avan and Boeruine are yesterdays news. Marlae is the key to the future.... Marlae kicks butt!

[Magian]

Still biting my tongue. :)

[Temujin]

I agree with Morg, Avan is over-rated and Boeruine is too much of the underdog. People too often see him as a villain because his ancestor waged war on Michael Roele, but he isn't his ancestor, lets remember that.

[Magian]

Here Here!

oops...I am supposed to be biting my tongue.

[Lord Eldred]

As I stated before, Marlae had fallen to a plot of the Spider that had her taking small doses of poison that was caught by her faithful servants but not before the poison made her crazy. Her servants have had her institutionalized for her own good and have taken over her province and turned it into the United Provinces of Haelyn. Praise Haelyn for he is good!

[Lawgiver]

The negative opinion isn't something players just made up... instead they read the material in the boxed set. I quote, " TOugh, middle-aged, Aeric Boeruine comes form a bloodline of power, but his CRUELTY AND HOSTILITY have made his path to the Iron Throune rougher than he'd like." (Ruins of the Empire, p. 73) If you want a cruel hostile regent for emporer that's your choice.

Avan is no better... Again I quote, "He strives for law and moderation in all things, but he, like the Archduke of Boeruine, appears willing to SACRAFICE HIS COMPATRIOTS to gain the Iron Throne. He believes that his knowledge of power will serve him well, and that he could be the best thing to happen to Anuire since Roele himself." Nothing like a backstabbing arrogant fool for an emporer.

No offense but I side with the Chamberlain Dosiere that neither is worthy of the title.

While he doesn't want it The Mhor, Daeric Mhoried, would be a far more desirable choice then the other two. The only other descent regents who get my vote are Thuriene Donalls and Marlea Roesone. Personally none of the options are fitting. Thus the best choice is a PC for the throne.

[Temujin]

I think you're over-emphasizing one aspect of his character over the others. Sure, he doesn't mind fighting or sacrifice his mens in his quests, but then again this is the Middle Ages, and if he acted otherwise, he wouldn't be able to rule properly. His temper and his over-willingness to go to war are definitely not really the perfect combination, indeed they are a major flaw of his character. But there is more than one side to a character, and Aeric sure does have his good sides. Ammong which I'd list his willingness to respond to the needs of his people through laws and actions, his belief in reciprocation(this may seem strange, but I find that the philosophy of "do me good and I will do you good, do me harm and I will do you harm" something that can help him insure the loyalties of his men by rewarding those who are loyal, and punishing those are not, while maintaining an aspect of fairness; never wrong someone who has not wronged you. These traits sure show an ammount of honor and a potential to be a good emperor, in the right situation. I can't say the same of Avan, whom I have yet to find a positive side to the man that isn't a fake.

As again, I ain't stating that Boeruine would make a perfect emperor, far from it; but then again he is human, and he does have a potential to make a decent or even good emperor, except in a few situations. He certainly would make for a better emperor than Avan would, without any shadow of doubt.

[Lawgiver]

I conceed that I would rather have Aeric than Avan. I don't like Avan for his simple arrogance. Though in my campaign I have Aeric as a milder version of Gavin Tael. Aeric politely invaded and conquered Talinie within the first 2 Turns. I play him with more of a drill seargent type militaristic view. He knows what he wants and he gets it quickly or else.

[Magian]

Yes I admit I am a proponent for Aeric Boeruine but I never said he deserves the Iron Throne or would be the best thing since Roele(I know this was a quote for Avan). I do however believe his family line is the rightful heir to the throne through succession by law. This is just my perspective through the readings I have read. Truthfully Roele was not much more different from Aeric in personal goals but perhaps he was not so arrogant as to think only the noble can rule, his elitist attitude is what is his downfall imo.

Avan I agree is as you have all said. I mean hell his family stole a friggin shield from the house of Boeruine.

Mhoried is honorable but I think his submissive stance would place him best as second to the next emperor instead of the third. Unless his son Michael does something extraordinary, however this realm is not a PC realm.

I must concede with Richard Baker and say that in a campaign a PC should become emperor. I also think that the recovery of the sword of Anuire or some major artifact is what will be needed in order for the PC to become emperor.

[Lawgiver]

Magian, its funny your should mention the Sword of Roele. In my campaign the sword is actually plays quite a key role. Rather than invest his bloodline in the ground as history records... Roele placed it on the hilt of his sword which was on the ground... Roele's essence is in the hilt half of the sword that was recovered by Gylvain when he rescued Aedan.... (the upper half resides in the Gorgon's Crown).

[Magian]

ehem....actually I mentioned the Sword of Anuire, the tighmaevril sword the Gorgon took when he slew Michael Roele not the sword found in the adventure where you go to the Chimaeron.

[Lawgiver]

I'm talking about the same thing. Sword of Roele ... Sword of Anuire... Empire of Anuire... Empire of Roele... Six of one, half dozen of the other.

The Sword of Roele/Anuire is a +5 tighmaevril weapon in my campaign. It look far cooler than the cheesy one in the adventure.

[Lord Eldred]

Lawgiver,

You confuse me. The one in the adventure is Roele and is pretty week. Let just keep that one with the name Sword of Roele.

Wouldn't it make sense however that he would put his essence in that sword rather than the sword of anuire. Since the Sword of Roele is supposedly his?

[Magian]

Lawgiver,

OK I understand what you are saying I am not in your campaign so all I had to base my information on was the books.

Lord Eldred

I don't have the foggiest.

[Lawgiver]

basic source of confusion: You guys are talking about 2 swords. There is only 1 sword in my campaign. The titles "Sword of Roele" and "Sword of Anuire" are synonymous. The only other equivelant to the "Sword of Anuire" is one used symbolically at the Sword and Crown. Though this is a replica of the original and is only a +2 finely crafted weapon.

Does that help? [muttering to himself...'I'm not crazy... I'm not crazy... I'm not crazy']

See my other posts on the Iron Throne thread... the novel related one not the artifact.

[Lord Eldred]

Thanks for clearing it up for me!

[Lawgiver]

Perhaps you had one to many ales...

[Lord Eldred]

Orginally posted by Lawgiver

Perhaps you had one to many ales...

Who me? Too many ales? Ahh are you calling me a drunk? :: Places his right hand on his long sword hilt and his left on his short sword hilt ::

[Lawgiver]

Easy with those pig stickers. We can't duel yet... there aren't any rules suggested in the 'Jousting & Duel Rules' thread. How will we know who wins?

[Lord Eldred]

True, then shall I buy you an ale and wait until there are some rules posted ;)

[Lawgiver]

I prefer water. But you could buy me some venison. I'd hate to fight on an empty stomach.

[Magian]

*Stretches and Yawns*
Wow that was a long nap. Hmm...looks like a lot of posts since I last visited here. Oh boy. You silly mortals don't you have anything better to do with your finite time?

[palious]

You know, the thing that people seem to do in these things is underestimate the Carieles. I know they don't even rule in Cariele anymore, but hear this. I'm a Cariele, on my m,other's side. I have recently retaken Cariele from the guilds and thus acheived the rank of Duke. I am a mzed at the power potential there. I have even married the baroness of Dhoesone ( and killed her) And Occupied the 5 peaks, after dealing with Eyeless One ( close battle) I believe, that I am now a strnog contender for the Iron Throne. Even the Goblins of Thurazor have sworn vassalage to me.

Cariele rules all!