Kenneth Gauck
02-26-1999, 07:00 PM
Greek contact with Celts directly (in Hellas) is some 900 years after the
period I was refering to. No wonder the sources you saw thought they were
quaint. Look at the Greek cults before they were unified in the Poleis.
Before the poleis built temples to worship the Gods in the very late Archaic
period, the gods were worshiped in sacred groves and we can see how during
the Classical are the attitude of Greeks changed towards nature from sacred
places to a view of it as an exploitable resource.
Regarding the similarities, let us recall that several thousands of years
ago, the proto Indo-Europeans expanded throughout India, Iran, Anatolia, and
throughout Europe. With them the brought their religion. In that religion
the chief of the gods was the Sky Father.
language sky father
Sanskirt (India) dyaus pita
Greek zeu pater
Latin ju piter
Illyrian dei patryos
all of which suggests to linquists that the proto Indo-Europeans called him
dyeus paeter. He was not progenitor of the gods, but rather possesed the
authority of a father in the heavens. We see Father Sky at the apex of some
of the Indo-Europeans' religions, such as Greek and Roman, and less
obviously important in other areas, such as India.
The same corespondance can be made with the sun god:
Sanskrit Surya
Gaelic Sulis
Lithuanian Saule
Germanic Sol
Slavic Solnitse
as well as the thunder-rain god:
Indic Parjanyas
Lituanian Perkunas
Slavic Perun
Norse Fjörgyn (Thor's mother)
derived from the concept "nephew of water" we find:
Indic Apam Napat
Latin Neptune
Irish Nechtain
We find the special role of nephew in the final climactic battle, this final
battle is called
Indic Kurukshetra
Irish Mahabharata
Norse Ragnarok
In these epics the *nepots, or nephew (grandson) is the protagonist against
the evil opponant.
The cultures of the Indo-Europeans evidence three social classes based on
priests, warrior, and herder-cultivators. This classes are then represented
in heaven by a three ordered heaven too. The first function possesses the
magical-jurdical sphere, such as the Indic Varuna or Norse Odin. The second
function reflects the warrior stratum and includes war gods such as Indra,
Mars, and Thor. The third estate concerns fertility and subsistance. Many
dieties reflect the third function.
- -----Original Message-----
From: DKEvermore@aol.com
Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - I feel it's my duty (long as heck)
>Hm. At least that's what the Romans thought. They had a habit of aligning
>foreign gods with their own and "fitting" them in... From what I've seen,
>there were often similarities here and there, but few were really "the
>same" except when the culture was similar. Even then, there might be
>differences. Ex. Welsh, Scottish and Irish deities.
>
>I'm not convinced about the "druidic"-ness of the early Greek religion,
>either. I've seen some writings where the Greeks seemed to respect the
>druidic religions of their Celtic neighbors, but their attitude, it seems
to
>me was more like, "Isn't that quaint. The barbarians managed to place the
>quest for knowledge into a socially important place. Too bad they're only
>barbarians."
>
period I was refering to. No wonder the sources you saw thought they were
quaint. Look at the Greek cults before they were unified in the Poleis.
Before the poleis built temples to worship the Gods in the very late Archaic
period, the gods were worshiped in sacred groves and we can see how during
the Classical are the attitude of Greeks changed towards nature from sacred
places to a view of it as an exploitable resource.
Regarding the similarities, let us recall that several thousands of years
ago, the proto Indo-Europeans expanded throughout India, Iran, Anatolia, and
throughout Europe. With them the brought their religion. In that religion
the chief of the gods was the Sky Father.
language sky father
Sanskirt (India) dyaus pita
Greek zeu pater
Latin ju piter
Illyrian dei patryos
all of which suggests to linquists that the proto Indo-Europeans called him
dyeus paeter. He was not progenitor of the gods, but rather possesed the
authority of a father in the heavens. We see Father Sky at the apex of some
of the Indo-Europeans' religions, such as Greek and Roman, and less
obviously important in other areas, such as India.
The same corespondance can be made with the sun god:
Sanskrit Surya
Gaelic Sulis
Lithuanian Saule
Germanic Sol
Slavic Solnitse
as well as the thunder-rain god:
Indic Parjanyas
Lituanian Perkunas
Slavic Perun
Norse Fjörgyn (Thor's mother)
derived from the concept "nephew of water" we find:
Indic Apam Napat
Latin Neptune
Irish Nechtain
We find the special role of nephew in the final climactic battle, this final
battle is called
Indic Kurukshetra
Irish Mahabharata
Norse Ragnarok
In these epics the *nepots, or nephew (grandson) is the protagonist against
the evil opponant.
The cultures of the Indo-Europeans evidence three social classes based on
priests, warrior, and herder-cultivators. This classes are then represented
in heaven by a three ordered heaven too. The first function possesses the
magical-jurdical sphere, such as the Indic Varuna or Norse Odin. The second
function reflects the warrior stratum and includes war gods such as Indra,
Mars, and Thor. The third estate concerns fertility and subsistance. Many
dieties reflect the third function.
- -----Original Message-----
From: DKEvermore@aol.com
Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - I feel it's my duty (long as heck)
>Hm. At least that's what the Romans thought. They had a habit of aligning
>foreign gods with their own and "fitting" them in... From what I've seen,
>there were often similarities here and there, but few were really "the
>same" except when the culture was similar. Even then, there might be
>differences. Ex. Welsh, Scottish and Irish deities.
>
>I'm not convinced about the "druidic"-ness of the early Greek religion,
>either. I've seen some writings where the Greeks seemed to respect the
>druidic religions of their Celtic neighbors, but their attitude, it seems
to
>me was more like, "Isn't that quaint. The barbarians managed to place the
>quest for knowledge into a socially important place. Too bad they're only
>barbarians."
>