New Sci-Fi BR game

[Hrandal]

I've just finished the website for a new Sci-Fi version of Birthright that I am thinking of running in the near future. The idea is quite bare-bones at the moment, so if anyone wants to offer ideas for NPCs or system, feel free to check it out.

http://iroc.co.uk/PromisedLands/Index.html

Don't expect too much - my web skills are pretty basic and this is my first web-page.

[Arjan]

Maybe you can add some stargate like parasites controlling humans (goa'uld) a few system lords would certainly enhance the place. treat them like awnshegs

in the D20 srd, spycraft and Stargate RPG you can find some more interesting skills you are looking for.

hope this helps.

Arjan

[Urban fox]

Originally posted by Arjan@Dec 3 2004, 07:45 PM
Maybe you can add some stargate like parasites controlling humans (goa'uld) a few system lords would certainly enhance the place. treat them like awnshegs

in the D20 srd, spycraft and Stargate RPG you can find some more interesting skills you are looking for.

hope this helps.

Arjan
Well I dont think adding another race is really necessary. Perhaps makeing the already existing factions more diverse, different buildings and units for each etc, would also do the trick.

It actually looks pretty good. :)

[ConjurerDragon]

Urban fox schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2883

>

> Urban fox wrote:

> QUOTE (Arjan @ Dec 3 2004, 07:45 PM) Maybe you can add some stargate like parasites controlling humans (goa`uld) a few system lords would certainly enhance the place. treat them like awnshegsin the D20 srd, spycraft and Stargate RPG you can find some more interesting skills you are looking for.hope this helps.Arjan

>-----------------------------

>

> Well I dont think adding another race is really necessar. Perhaps makeing the already existing factions more diverse, different buildings and units for each etc, would also do the trick.It actually looks pretty good. :)

>

>

When I think about the first suggestion I have to think about the Raven

- perhaps the goa´uld who take control of human bodys are already

there... Just from the Shadow World instead of foreign planets...

bye

Michael

[Hrandal]

Thanks for taking a look, people.

I don't really want to add too much weird external stuff right now, I just want a background that will tick over by its own accord.

As to different designs, some factions will start off with designs for things others do not, and I expect this to change dramatically during the course of any game, as people use the Research holdings to create new technologies and make new designs. I'm prepared to be 100% flexible in that direction - anything that fits the general milieu can be researched

You are right that it needs more diversity, if anyone wants to suggest realms, regents or holding organisations, please post them or mail them to me; Chris@iroc.co.uk.

[First Horseman]

Damn, that's good. Like a breath of fresh air. Hmmm, it seems like a good website. I can't wait to see the finish product. mabye you could add some other corperations that could effectively compete with Omnicop. Again, you've got something good going!

[Hrandal]

Thanks.

A few people have said that Omnicorp is too powerful, but they don't have much actual territory, and they have some other disadvantages. I guess really I should make that clearer.

The site should get a major overhaul in the next few days to take account of improved style sheets and graphics. Then I'll be adding in some of the changes and rules that people have suggested.

[Angelbialaska]

Yeah. Omnicorp looks incredibly powerful on the paper. They hold security, they hold Industry, they hold Finance, Research and even a media company. On the paper that looks extremely impressive, with Damien Grant mentioned so many times, particularly when Maria Chou appears to be the only other character that branches into more things and that is only two areas, Security and Finance. It's a bit like having a lot of Endier and Ilien like realms, with very little influence and then the combined Darian Avan, Aeric Boeruine with their vassals.

[The Jew]

Or Omnicorp may be comparable to the Gorgon, in which case that strength is completely appropriate. Though I would say you need to add more industrial corporations, otherwise Omnicorp will have control over so much of the military production.

[Hrandal]

Omnicorp are the thinly veiled Ghoere of the setting, their power level is about relative with that of Ghoere in BR. They do seem very tough, and they are, but they have a lot of limiting factors.

1. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY trusts them
2. They only have 2 provinces of not exceptionally high level to their name.
3. They are competing with EVERY type of other holding. Can you imagine being looked on as an adversary by Guilder Kalien, the WIT, the High Mage Aelies and Darian Avan?
4. They are surrounded by much larger countries who are double or triple their size. While they could perhaps conquer one, they would be swamped with crap troops, and be unable to hold their new territory.

That said, they are supposed to be a dangerous opponent.


Redoubt Corporation, on the other hand, has massive manufacturing capability, a nicely defensible island HQ, no particular enemies and a huge number of military vehicle units.

NHK does not produce much, but has such a massive inflow of wealth through their finance holdings and two well-developed provinces that they are a serious opponent for anyone. I will be trying to expand on the "economic disruption" actions that are useable in EW - so a finance corp can damage the finances of a host country badly.

[Justinius_ExMortis]

Excellent work, I'm impressed. I've been working on a sci-fi BR setting using some of the T20 Traveler rules. Which in and of itself is a load of complications. A couple of thoughts on your own setting and system. Obviously take them or leave them at your convenience. It's your setting/system so no worries on what, if any of it, you use. So here they are.

Mr Mercury, secretly supported by Omnicorp? Perhaps even better, an independant operator with his fingers in some Industrial holdings, via contracts for unions and members of his syndicate, in a secret alliance with the Neo-Celts? The tribes strike at industrial operations that Mr Mercury isn't involved with and he supplies them with extras in the way of money and gear?

Monorails, the lack of support bothers me. Monorails are terribly expensive to initially build, though the maintenace (real world) is below the average for mass transportation due to a lack of moving parts it still requires some influx of monies for supporting repairs/maintenance/and personel. Also, an uninterupted journey to far distant points is hard to come by in the real world. Stop offs exist for a variety of reasons. Refueling, taking on and letting off passengers and cargo. A vast reduction in movement costs for a unit using a monorail would work well, even something like four provinces per movement point, still a vast increase over normal province movement.

What is Media Points? A measure of influence among the common people? Isn't RP basically the same thing? Just curious as to what there use is.

Also, I don't know if you have access to it, but D20Modern, D20Future, and T20Traveler are great resources, especially on the technological front. D20Future especially has some great cybernetics and nanite based gear. Also T20Traveler gives a great model for future economics, what's valuable and how.

Just some thoughts that came into my head while I was reading though your site, if I think of anything more I'll give you a heads up. I have a few ideas for what you wanted Regents and Realms. I just want to flesh them out more before I send them your way. Otherwise, great work man, I look forward to more info and posts.

[Hrandal]

Ha, ha! - That obvious was it? Yes, Omnicorp are "global" in that direction too - The Syndicate are just another "division".

I fear I am just not as confident on rules as ideas, so I'm looking at the gargantuan task ahead of me and trying just to pick around the edges of it at the moment.

On the upkeep of monorails - well, I was assuming that a lot of taxes get plowed back into local services, and that the monorail generates extra economic benefits enough to pay for itself. In a a colony with virtually zero private transport, I also thought people would pay pretty well for the privelege of using monorail. That said, I'm not writing anything in stone at this stage (just less pesky book-keeping for the regent was my real thought.)

I may scrap media points and just stick to RP. I think that Media corps will be able to make "Realm Spell" equivalents like, say, a "Marketing Blitz" or a "Smear Campaign". Basically the Media will be good for swaying the public.

Thanks for the feedback, I look forward to any ideas you want to send my way.

[Birthright-L]

Do you still use Regency Points? It occurs to me that

in a sci-fi birthright, Media might be the most

appropriate expression of RP. I mean, between having

large amounts of RP and cash, you should be able to

pull off just about any colony actions you want...





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[Hrandal]

I was going to scrap RP and replace them with Media Points, but that seemed to be a bit unpopular.

Now I'm thinking of either giving Media extra ways to use RP, or extra ways to generate RP.

Bloodline will be gone, since it makes no sense in the setting, so I will have to come up with another way to limit maximum RP.

[Birthright-L]

> Hrandal wrote:

> I was going to scrap RP and replace them with

> Media Points, but that seemed to be a bit

> unpopular.Now I`m thinking of either giving Media

> extra ways to use RP, or extra ways to generate

> RP.Bloodline will be gone, since it makes no sense

> in the setting, so I will have to come up with

> another way to limit maximum RP.



If one interprets media as channels of communication,

distribution, and generation of information, then we

can divide two seperate features here: the first,

Media of a more popular content-oriented sort might

provide RP and/or aid loyalty. Perhaps holdings would

produce more RP in a province with higher loyalty?

The other half, Logistics, might represent

communication as a barrier to control including

transportation, callaberations, beurocratic

efficiency, etc. and might replace bloodline.



I`m imagining now Media as a seperate holding, where

as Logistics being an overall colony score because its

most convinient that way but I don`t know if that`s

very consistent with even the most casual application

of common sense, though. Surely, if anything your

control of particular areas might be differing but

your overall content should be applicable to whereever

you can might need it through any channel of effective

communication (hence the RP theme).



So maybe, your overall Media score should represent

the maximum RP you can have or generate, whereas your

Logistics holdings in a particular area might

represent how many RP you can distribute into that

area for domain actions?



I dunno. Just rambling, really...







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[BrennanHawkwood]

Originally posted by Hrandal@Dec 11 2004, 07:43 PM
I was going to scrap RP and replace them with Media Points, but that seemed to be a bit unpopular.

Now I'm thinking of either giving Media extra ways to use RP, or extra ways to generate RP.

Bloodline will be gone, since it makes no sense in the setting, so I will have to come up with another way to limit maximum RP.
How about replacing Regency Points with Influence. My idea would be that Influence points basically work the same and use the same basic rules as RP. To me, that is often what RPs represent anyways...the sometimes vague political-economic-cultural capital or influence that a regent can apply towards making things go the way they want them to. Regents can spend a little or a lot in their efforts to manage their holdings.

Since a powerful regent with many holdings is likely to have more influence than a regent with few holdings and regents of different types will draw inlfuence from different segments of society so the basic mechanic for accumulating RP in Birthright can be used with minimal modification. I would come up with a formula based on Charisma and/or the number of ranks the character has in one or more skills to limit the amount that can be gained and held. Basically, the individual regent's personal charisma and political-economic skill controls how quickly they are able to garner influence and how much influence they are able to bank.

I'm looking forward to hearing how your project works out. I've messed with the idea of doing this sort of modern or sci-fi equivelent to the Birthright system a couple of times myself. (Fading Suns would be such a perfect setting for such a thing!)

-- Brennan

[Osprey]

In a similar vein, one's Influence score (I think Influence is an excellent term for a modern or sci-fi replacement for bloodline score) could be based on the Leadership feat, or at least use that formula: character level + Charisma modifier + any circumstantial modifiers. For this setting, the other modifiers would become quite important. Building on Brennan's ideas, you could grant a +1 to this score for having 5 ranks in key social/political skills, for instance (such as Administrate, Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Lead, Perform, Sense Motive, and Warcraft). Performing great deeds or services to the public might also grant some temporary or permanent bonuses to Influence.

If Influence is equivalent to bloodline, then keep in mind it represents potential rather than actual power. Actual power derives from one's total holdings, and is limited by Influence.

Some ideas, anyways...I've collaborated with Justinius on some of those T20 Traveller conversions...fun and interesting to think about. Good luck with your campaign, I hope the project gets off the ground and sees some live playtesting.

Osprey

[Hrandal]

Influence sounds as good a name as any, and probably more accurate than Regency Points.

I've got RP at the moment, but since rules are the part that are taking the most work, I'm sure I'll see many changes before its finished.

I've actually just written a bunch of Media "Realm Spell" ideas which should be going up on the site in the next few days, along with a more effective list of rules ideas. No mechanics yet, but they shouldn't be hard to figure out.

At the moment I'm trying to decide how much of the BR character section to keep, and how much to scrap.

As to Bloodline, what I'd been thinking was that a character would have a certain number of points to spend on "Regent Skills" (probably about 5-10 points for a decent regent.) These skills would correspond mainly to holding types or a few other things, and would form the basis of certain domain level rolls. The number of points would also roughly correspond with character level/bloodline strength in normal BR. What I'd imagined was that a character could hold RP up to 10 times their total Regent Skill Points.

Its still undecided - thats the simplest idea I've had at the moment.

Thanks for taking an interest guys!

[Birthright-L]

Possible regent skills/specialties:



Diplomacy (skill which influences your interaction

with other regents, and with checks to influence

province/holding attitude)



Espianage (skill which provides bonuses on espianage

domain actions, and allows you more options with the

action)



Military (skill which influences the success/failure

of your troop attacks and defense, makes defensive

fortifications more efficient, and increases the

potential tech level of troops)



Authority (provides bonuses to avoid rebellion and

acts as a defense modifier against hostile attempts to

influence attitude in your domain. Helps to prevent

random events. Increases amount of levies that can be

raised.)



Environment (increases recycling/habitation

efficiency, granting bonuses to Rule actions and

raising the maximum province/holding level. Prevents

troop damage for moving across hostile terrain and

allows more efficient movement across terrain.)



Efficiency (skill which lowers the maintenence costs

of holdings and/or troops, prevents need for

additional supply, and lowers attrition damage in

combat)



Economics (lowers excessive overhead costs of certain

domain actions.)



Loyalty (provides bonuses to overall domain attitude.

Minimum requirement for certain media-based Special

Actions, including Media-based Attacks and

Counterattacks. Increases efficiency of Psychic

Prototypes.)



Research (provides emphasis on higher bonuses for

research actions, allowing new Special Actions, Troop

Types, and Special Holdings available. Number of tech

advances cannot exceed ranks in Research emphasis.)



=====

While I wrought out these fitful Danaan rhymes,

My heart would brim with dreams about the times

When we bent down above the fading coals

And talked of the dark folk who live in souls

Of passionate men, like bats in the dead trees;

And of the wayward twilight companies

Who sigh with mingled sorrow and content,

Because their blossoming dreams have never bent

Under the fruit of evil and of good:

And of the embattled flaming multitude

Who rise, wing above wing, flame above flame,

And, like a storm, cry the Ineffable Name,

And with the clashing of their sword-blades make

A rapturous music, till the morning break

And the white hush end all but the loud beat

Of their long wings, the flash of their white feet.







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[geeman]

At 08:43 AM 12/17/2004 -0800, Lord Rahvin wrote:



>Environment (increases recycling/habitation efficiency, granting bonuses

>to Rule actions and

>raising the maximum province/holding level. Prevents troop damage for

>moving across hostile terrain and allows more efficient movement across

>terrain.)



Something like this might also help revitalize potential source levels of

provinces, increase the ability of "virtual guilds" from high source

holdings to generate income, help combat the effects of population increase

and/or allow the increase of population without damaging source potential.



I like adding new skills where appropriate, but I wonder in this case if

this might not be best handled by the effects of a regent having ranks in

the survival skill in order to preserve a domain level/adventure level

interaction of character skills.



>Efficiency (skill which lowers the maintenence costs of holdings and/or

>troops, prevents need for

>additional supply, and lowers attrition damage in combat)

>

>Economics (lowers excessive overhead costs of certain domain actions.)



Seems like both of these could be aspects of the administration skill.



>Loyalty (provides bonuses to overall domain attitude.

>Minimum requirement for certain media-based Special

>Actions, including Media-based Attacks and

>Counterattacks. Increases efficiency of Psychic

>Prototypes.)

>

>Research (provides emphasis on higher bonuses for

>research actions, allowing new Special Actions, Troop

>Types, and Special Holdings available. Number of tech

>advances cannot exceed ranks in Research emphasis.)



I wrote up a research skill a while back (which I still think D&D is sorely

lacking) but it concentrated more upon the ability to find information in

an archive rather than perform the kind of experimental

investigation/development that it looks like you`re intimating

here. Knowledge skills might work in a few cases here, though they tend to

lend themselves to information rather than experimentation.



There are a few D20 character classes that are engineers, tinkerers,

technicians, etc. and have things like a repair skill and the ability to

create prototypes and other inventions. Maybe something in those might

indicate where this kind of thing might be best portrayed?



Gary

[The Jew]

Geeman, he's making up entirely new rules for the sci-fi game. That is what all those skills are for.

[Birthright-L]

> There are a few D20 character classes that are

> engineers, tinkerers,

> technicians, etc. and have things like a repair

> skill and the ability to

> create prototypes and other inventions. Maybe

> something in those might

> indicate where this kind of thing might be best

> portrayed?



This is why its important to make the domain effects

different than the adventuring effects. I was trying

to suggest general areas of emphasis rather than a

"skill" in the d20 mechanical sense. While I think it

should be important that an engineer-regent should

have a domain with better gadgets, I don`t actually

picture the regent himself necessarily walking off to

the factory to repair the thermal boreholes himself.



Having several domain ranks in a "Research" emphasis

might represent any number of skills when translated

into a d20 adventuring character being indicative of

different levels, feats, classes, knowledge skills,

technical skills, profession skills, magic

items/gadgets, etc.





=====

While I wrought out these fitful Danaan rhymes,

My heart would brim with dreams about the times

When we bent down above the fading coals

And talked of the dark folk who live in souls

Of passionate men, like bats in the dead trees;

And of the wayward twilight companies

Who sigh with mingled sorrow and content,

Because their blossoming dreams have never bent

Under the fruit of evil and of good:

And of the embattled flaming multitude

Who rise, wing above wing, flame above flame,

And, like a storm, cry the Ineffable Name,

And with the clashing of their sword-blades make

A rapturous music, till the morning break

And the white hush end all but the loud beat

Of their long wings, the flash of their white feet.







__________________________________

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[geeman]

At 07:22 PM 12/17/2004 +0100, The Jew wrote:



>Geeman, he`s making up entirely new rules for the sci-fi game. That is

>what all those skills are for.



According to the website, it`s going to be "based loosely on the D&D

3.0/3.5 Birthright system" with some additions, so relating the skills in

question to existing ones and deciding how to use them is what I was

getting at. Since this is still at the speculative level a little

discussion of whether a new skill should be added or an existing one used

seems appropriate.



At 10:32 AM 12/17/2004 -0800, Lord Rahvin wrote:



> > There are a few D20 character classes that are engineers, tinkerers,

> > technicians, etc. and have things like a repair skill and the ability to

> > create prototypes and other inventions. Maybe something in those might

> > indicate where this kind of thing might be best portrayed?

>

>This is why its important to make the domain effects different than the

>adventuring effects. I was trying to suggest general areas of emphasis

>rather than a "skill" in the d20 mechanical sense. While I think it

>should be important that an engineer-regent should have a domain with

>better gadgets, I don`t actually picture the regent himself necessarily

>walking off to the factory to repair the thermal boreholes himself.



Well, I mentioned a skill, but there are special abilities and things in

those aforementioned character classes from which we might take a few hints

as to how to go about it in this case. Star Wars D20, for instance, has a

technician, and there are similar things in other more modern settings. The



When it comes to differentiating adventure level effects from domain level

effects the realization I came to a while back is that they really

shouldn`t be separated conceptually. It works just as well if adventure

level abilities have an influence on domain level events and vice

versa. In fact, it works in many contexts. If a character`s ability to

hide can also be used to avoid detection when piloting a starship, driving

a car, etc. and many other character class-like effects can similarly

interact with what are essentially the same processes though on a larger

scale. In general, it makes sense for there to be other class related

effects that determine one`s ability to perform actions at different

scales, but the basic game mechanic is the same.



In this case, for example, a regent with technological skills will not

necessarily go into a thermal borehole to repair it himself, but he will

direct that activity. His leadership of the process will result in more

effective and productive thermal boreholes based upon his own skill

level. He does not repair a borehole, but he supervises the construction,

maintenance and operation of a series of them to derive results that are

broader than an adventure level result, but the character`s stats that

allow him to manage a dozen boreholes and the ones that allow him to repair

the hydraulics in one at the adventure level can remain the same.



>Having several domain ranks in a "Research" emphasis might represent any

>number of skills when translated into a d20 adventuring character being

>indicative of different levels, feats, classes, knowledge skills,

>technical skills, profession skills, magic items/gadgets, etc.



Why not do it with existing game mechanics? If characters are going to

already have those feats, skills, etc. then why design the domain level to

employ them? The BRCS update has had a lot of discussion on how skills

might be used to affect domain actions, and though the actual domain

actions are, of course, updated necessarily for a SF version of the domain

level, this is basically the same concept.



Gary