Tollán

[Arjan]

Ever wondered where the Basarji came from, the origins of the Vos?

Where did the kraken really come from, how did he ended up in Cerilia?

Why nobody knows anything about the Wizards heritage, and why she can tap easily into other ley lines or perhaps tapping into ancient ley lines?

Why the halfling have to power to open shadow portals, and sense rifts between cerilia and the shadowworld?

well you are about to find out ;)

I have written up a piece for a continent east of the seas of the dragons.

If you all like it i will work out more.

Arjan

for list users: i have attached a word file to the post on BRnet.

[Angelbialaska]

I don't see how most of the stuff fit together with the history already established? Especially the whole stuff with how the magical disaster. How come that the Elves kept their magic after that, but none of the human races did? And how does the gods fit into all of this?

[Arjan]

Originally posted by Angelbialaska@Jan 2 2005, 06:21 PM
I don't see how most of the stuff fit together with the history already established? Especially the whole stuff with how the magical disaster. How come that the Elves kept their magic after that, but none of the human races did? And how does the gods fit into all of this?
Well the history fills in loose ends. things that were never developed for BR.

at one moment the creation of a dimentional flux was prohibited, doesnt say they couldnt use the mebhaighl running arround.

but if you look at Siebharrinn, he DID open a flux again to defeat the forces of the gorgon.. he unleashed magic of nightmarish proporsion ans sideath became partially in the shadowworld. a flux he was unable to close by himself. (see tuarhievel sourcebook)

i didnt touch the adurian history for a reason. didnt want to mess with the original history.
but the vos clan kept their magic abilities after the fled to aduria.. thats why azrai chose his champions of mostly vossic people because of their magical potential.

i didnt touch the godly system since that is unique to aduria and cerilia. Probably when the vossic clan arrived at aduria they started to worship Vorrynn. they didnt worship any gods before.

Arjan

[Angelbialaska]

I thought that each of the gods (except for Azrai) created a tribe each. Vorynn created the Voss, Anduiras created the Andu (Anuirean), Basaia created the Basarji, Brenna created the Brechts, Masela created the Masetians (extinct), and Rejnir created the Rjuven. And each of these gods led their followers into the continent of Cerilia and settled it.

As for the Vos, then they venerated Vorynn and they were diviners and illusionists. That's magicians and has nothing to do with true magic. Those Tollans on the other hand is definitely fooling around with true magic, something that existed only in the fae and the gods before Deismaar, not any human tribes, not even the favored of Vorynn.

Ley Lines, Mebhaigl and such isn't discovered until after the big battle. To use Ley Lines and Mebhaigl one must be blooded. Elves may learn true magic, but if they're not blooded, they're unable to hold sources and ley lines, etc.

[Raesene Andu]

Each of the tribes worshipped a single god above all others, the histories do not specifically state that the tribes were created by the gods and I'd suggest that they weren't. As for the god leading the tribes to Cerilia it is more the other way around, as the tribes of humanity fled to Cerilia their gods followed.

Ley lines, mebhaighl and true magic existed before Deismaar and elves can control or create source holdings and ley lines if they aren't blooded, but only blooded elves can gain regency from those holdings.

[Arjan]

Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jan 3 2005, 02:31 AM
Each of the tribes worshipped a single god above all others, the histories do not specifically state that the tribes were created by the gods and I'd suggest that they weren't. As for the god leading the tribes to Cerilia it is more the other way around, as the tribes of humanity fled to Cerilia their gods followed.

Ley lines, mebhaighl and true magic existed before Deismaar and elves can control or create source holdings and ley lines if they aren't blooded, but only blooded elves can gain regency from those holdings.
How i always pictured the gods is that the former gods like Anduras and Vorynn were once mortals as well. Perhaps Anduras joined the 12 tribes to one. and after his dead he was being worshipped as their hero, and eventually over time (many ages) he became a god.

Same way i pictured Vorynn. Perhaps he was one of the heroic leaders when the Tollán fled the destruction of their continent.
It makes sense that once Vorynn was killed at deismaar, the scions who received his essence indeed got some bloodpowers to sense mebhaigl.


About the leylines.. still rumours go that the "ancient" leylines exist, but "no one" knows how to detect, tap or use these. They date way back before Deismaar.

[A_dark]

Erm...

The Basarji came from Djapar, which can be seen in a small corner of the Khinasi map I believe

The kraken, according to what Blood enemies suggests, was summoned by Nesirie from the elemental planes...

The wizard can tap on ley lines, because she owns calamity, a staff with this exact ability...

Basaia is still worshipped in Djapar, according to some book (too bored to go look right now), and the natives of Djapar actually have dismissed the idea of Deismaar as heressy. The same source also suggests that Avani grants them spells.

I don't really like this messy continent, but then again, if you like it and want to use it, it's not my place to stop you ;)

However... isn't Tollan a minor Awnie? :) You might want to consider changing the continent's name :)

[Arjan]

The Basarji came from Djapar, which can be seen in a small corner of the Khinasi map I believe

Basaia is still worshipped in Djapar, according to some book (too bored to go look right now), and the natives of Djapar actually have dismissed the idea of Deismaar as heressy. The same source also suggests that Avani grants them spells.


Right, never said they didnt. I wrote that they became nomads and eventually reached cerilia.
That "history" i made predates alot. Isnt just something that happened the last couple of years.



The kraken, according to what Blood enemies suggests, was summoned by Nesirie from the elemental planes...


Thought i checked that.. only read that the kraken took side of azrai and its origins are unknown



The wizard can tap on ley lines, because she owns calamity, a staff with this exact ability...


And cant Calamity be passed down from generation to generation? Its the only "known" magical weapon that has such powers. and since nothing is known on the wizards i thought i weaveit in...



I don't really like this messy continent, but then again, if you like it and want to use it, it's not my place to stop you ;)


well , you may ;) but if you have any suggestion or ideas to make this less messy, its mostly welcome.




However... isn't Tollan a minor Awnie? :) You might want to consider changing the continent's name :)


hmm dunno... will check BoA later.

the reason why i have chosen that name is that it is derived from Atlantis where the background is loosely based on. the text below i took from a website.


Hard evidence suggests that Sanskrit is the father of most world-class languages. If we use Sanskrit to explain the true meaning of "Atlantis," we'll learn that the initial A means "Not; No longer." The final Tis derives from the Sanskrit Desa, Des, or Tes, meaning "Nation." Atlantis = "No-Longer-the-'Tlan'-or-'Tollán'-Nation." When A-Tlan-Tis sank under the ocean named after it, it certainly ceased to exist. However, the westernmost extreme of Atlantis, which is Mexico, is still above water. It continues to be Tollán or Tlan.

Arjan

[Raesene Andu]

Originally posted by A_dark@Jan 3 2005, 08:23 PM
However... isn't Tollan a minor Awnie? :) You might want to consider changing the continent's name :)
Tollan is one of the Gorgon's lieutenants, his treasury, spymaster, and guildmaster to be exact. He is mentioned in Blood Enemies as a minor awnshegh.

[ConjurerDragon]

Arjan schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2904

>

> Arjan wrote:

> QUOTE (A_dark @ Jan 3 2005, 11:53 AM) Erm...

>------------ QUOTE ----------

>

>The wizard can tap on ley lines, because she owns calamity, a staff with this exact ability...

>

>-----------------------------

>

>And cant Calamity be passed down from generation to generation? Its the only "known" magical weapon that has such powers. and since nothing is known on the wizards i thought i weaveit in...

>

The only? What about the Ring of Ley Use from p. 74 Book of Magecraft?

It does exactly this.



>However... isn`t Tollan a minor Awnie? :) You might want to consider changing the continent`s name :)

>

>-----------------------------

>

>hmm dunno... will check BoA later.

>the reason why i have chosen that name is that it is derived from Atlantis where the background is loosely based on. the text below i took from a website.

>

>

"The living hoard" Tollan, a lieutenant of the Gorgon, more able to spy

than fight...



>------------ QUOTE ----------

>Hard evidence suggests that Sanskrit is the father of most world-class languages. If we use Sanskrit to explain the true meaning of "Atlantis," we`ll learn that the initial A means "Not; No longer." The final Tis derives from the Sanskrit Desa, Des, or Tes, meaning "Nation." Atlantis = "No-Longer-the-`Tlan`-or-`Tollán`-Nation." When A-Tlan-Tis sank under the ocean named after it, it certainly ceased to exist. However, the westernmost extreme of Atlantis, which is Mexico, is still above water. It continues to be Tollán or Tlan.

>-----------------------------

>

>

The meteor crater?

bye

Michael

[Arjan]

well supposely this conversation isnt going anywere...

I just posted some ideas.. just wanted some feedback or ideas

and all you are picking on are some minor detail examples i used in the initial post.
next time i will just put: please read an comment.

I posted an idea for a Continent.. nothing more... and all that can be discussed if there are 1 or two items (whatever!) that can tap ley lines or the name of a certain lieutenant (so what!).

geez who cares?? since when do names have to be Unique?? who said that continent IS out there, who says its named Tollán?

when Birthright.net became the official site we were allowed to continue the birthright setting. thats how long ago? 6 years? And what have we accomplished so far? a half done conversion. and parts of aduria since that is ians little child.

Since 3e came out i have never received anything from anyone to be posted on BRnet. all the stuff you can find is still 2e. And when someone posts something that is totally didderent but comes to close to the original setting most of you started to get yelling arround. why? you now why? because when someone tries they are always shut up by some of you.

all the BRcommunity can do is nag about rules. what about creating an great place adventuring? extend it! give advice and hints etc etc etc you know how many brilliant players and DMs the BR community has. Do something with it

we got so many members, 4 times as much as dragonlance.com but half the total posts.

sorry... had to say it!

Arjan

[Green Knight]

Welcome to BR.net Arjan!



You should know these things by now ;-)



Cheers

B

[Arjan]

Welcome to BR.net Arjan!

You should know these things by now ;-)

Cheers
B


Yeah i know Bjorn, but i never got it out of my system before.

I spend weeks on researching, combining myths and theories combining that with what i know of BR. Finally writing up a piece of it, just to share some of my thoughts for something new.
I knew some would pick out stuff that are discussable, and i have all answers on that ready. it ALL fits. I wrote it very carefully not to mess with the originals, thinking the way the BR community would react on this.

At first i tried it with the Ley line storm first, and looked how everyone reacted.. quite positive imo... but i seemed to be over enthousiastic after all.

and no the Kraken is NOT summoned by neserie.. i already thought i never read that. and the Blood enemies are indeed confirm what i wrote : "the oldest theory about the kraken involves azrai in the years before the BoD. They say he came to cerilia by water with corrupted, monstrous see creatures, and one of these monsters was the kraken"

aaargh here i go again...

A.

[Green Knight]

I think it is an interesting piece of work (I do onw the product in question too, but I haven't looked at it in ages, and never saw any BR potential in it before now).

Perhaps not immediately applicable to my own campaigns, but still a source of fresh ideas. More of this stuff (and less of canon recitations and rules lawyering) is needed on this site.

B

[Arjan]

Gary wrote...

I`m intrigued already, particularly with the Atlantis angle. Here`s a
scary thought: How about a campaign hook in which the PCs have to stop some
mad plot by one of the more insane awnsheghlien (the Serpent, Magian or
maybe the Raven may be candidates) to actually SINK Cerilia a la the Isle
of Atlantis? It`s not like the campaign world has never experienced large
scale disasters before.... In that context, ley storms might actually be
employed by the master villain in order to cover up gaining control or
temporary influence over the ley lines and sources of other regents. This
kind of thing could be used to portray a long term campaign kind of like
The Dead Gods--BR style.


Yeah i do think the raven really could apply for this job.. infact he IS one of the lost.. banned to the shadowworld for ages.. and of andu/vos origin so IF you combine it with the piece i put up here he could have known about the continent and its dissapearance from the SW again... nice angle gary

[graham anderson]

Welcome to BR.net Arjan!

You should know these things by now ;-)

Cheers
B

Yes that’s br.net it’s why I don’t bother posting my own stuff anymore you just get shouted at. I know other people who like birthright but won't come near this site because of the way people get shouted at on the boards. I still write bits and pieces but I don’t post them one thing I am doing is converting the brcs to fading suns for I game I hope to run in the future but I would never post it here I would just be shouted at.

People need to offer more constructive criticism and help too often people say it’s terrible or you should never do that and shout. This is not someone who is trying to get something accepted into the brcs it is just something he came up with don’t get so worked up. This post is not that bad for shouting but just look at some of the past posts. SHUDDER!

As for tolan I wouldn't use it myself but keep creating there is nothing wrong with it. I have my own history with a series of wars among the immortal races (dragons, giants etc) and the Elven Empire that enslaved most of the races before the slave uprising and the death of the immortal king and the fracturing and civil war in the empire. I posted this a long time ago and just got shouted at as well.

By posting on the br.net I take it you mean the downloads section, I would have liked to have my magicians guide book posted on the downloads but I stopped posting about it because I just got shouted at and didn't get any help it was a hassle I could do without.

I still come here to help on the brcs and to occasionally post on something else but I don't post as much as I did its not worth it.

[irdeggman]

All right don't take this personally Arjan but here comes my critique. . .

BR was written intentially vague to encourage DMs to create their own spin on things. Well that is my belief anyway. The 2nd ed material specifically left out many things, like details on Aduria or other continents, the specifics on all 12 tighmeavril weapons - only a very few were actually documented, etc.

Now one thing that we all should be careful of is to not fall into the trap that the original material had - poor continuity and conflicting detail. The latter products, BoR and Blood Spawn seemed to attempt to fill some of these descrepancies by infusing some vagueness and possible explanations for things, at least in my opinion.

OK now for the specifics. . .

Blood Spawn pg 5 sidebar. It contains some references to the creation of the gods and of Aebrynis. Basically the gods were created out of the land before humans were created. It is also suggested that elves might have existed before the gods, but the wording is intentionally vague.

Check the description of elves and the Sie from Blood Spawn. Elves were around before humans were created period - far too many references (and implied statements) to this in the various BR texts to ignore.

Book of Regency describes the Vos as coming from Aduria. And the Basarji as coming from Djapar a land beyond the Sea of Dragons (the latter was repeated in other places as well IIRC). The Vos pretty much marched northward while the Basarji could have done some wondering, but still they came from where they came.

So having these races come from the same place doesn't quite fit the continuity.

Mechanically introducing a means to have wizards that aren't blooded or of elven blood is most definitely a potential campaign breaker since that was one of the basic core concepts of the setting itself.

The introduction of the planer travel and invaders makes this too much of Forgotten Realms to me, sorry. I mean what happend to these raiders? Why didn't they continue to travel across the planes? That is one thing I really hated in the Sword of Roele (IMO the absolute worst BR product written) - it was basically a FR cast off and introduced gates to other planes. The BR RB basically states that dimensional spells pass through the Shadow World. Remeber that the Shadow World is parallel to Aebrynis itself and not specific to Cerillia.

Stating that halflings had ley line mastery is a pretty large stretch. In 2nd ed halflings couldn't be wizards at all. Tieing travel between Aebrynis and the Shadow World to ley lines is asking for trouble by opening a huge can of worms.

Now this land and people could have a greater potential if they were actually the lost tribe of Azrai. Azrai was the one god without a chosen tribe and was the master of magic (from the Shadow World - see the lost and minions of the lost from Blood Spawn). Instead of focusing on greater magic (which is what is implied/stated here) this race could have focused on magic based on the Seeming instead. Fits better with the Azrai concept and the writing that he taught the Lost well before Deismaar and the Andu even coming to Cerilia.

Another thing to consider is the impact of this cataclism. If Deismaar caused the things it did what impact did this really have? Wouldn't the elves have known? Would the dwarves have felt it?

[Arjan]

All right don't take this personally Arjan but here comes my critique. . .


I have no problem with criticism..and certainly dont take this personaly :) From critique you can learn and improve. But theres a difference between critizizing and sweeping the floor with everything written ....
People post for a reason... siply to get feedback on their ideas. Give your opinion and some ideas where someone can focus on.

That is what helps people further in their homebrew stuff... unfortunately ony some of you take some time to be helpfull.

I really liked it when Hrandal opened a post for his SciFi BR game, and the responses were very helpfull imo. I dont know why people always "freak" out when it comes to home brew stuff that connects their stuf with BR self.
'Dont touch my Breil'

why everyone gets enthousiastic on threads like"What car the gorgon would drive if he were on earth..." and they freak out if you post an article that concludes that the CSH is just a gay club...




OK now for the specifics. . .



Yeah you got some good points/ideas there, will look into that.

[Angelbialaska]

I'm sorry if I seemed to shout about it. :( To me it just appeared very much like Tollan wasn't fitting into Birthright, due to the conflicts with the gods and magic, etc.

I'm my opinion, then we shouldn't really focus on anything huge. The Birthright setting is pretty large in itself already, with the five sourcebooks detailing the Vos, the Khinasi, the Brecht, the Anuirean and the Rjuven. What I'm finding myself lacking again and again, is more like Player's Secrets and DM's secrets. Background material that expand the information on the individual domains. So we'd get a high level of details in the individual domains. Some genealogies between the characters would be nice. Who is Aubrae Avan's mother, since she has a bloodline of 70? Does Boeruine have blood relations to the Dhoennals of Talinie? All such stuff that fills out the major gaps.

I think the major events of the worlds, such as ley line storms, sinking continents, etc, should really be up to the individual GMs to run. We shouldn't really be making any major adjustments of the world, instead we should make it more living and filled with people other than the rulers.

[Arjan]

I'm sorry if I seemed to shout about it. :( To me it just appeared very much like Tollan wasn't fitting into Birthright, due to the conflicts with the gods and magic, etc.


dont worry about it :)

[Osprey]

I'm my opinion, then we shouldn't really focus on anything huge. The Birthright setting is pretty large in itself already, with the five sourcebooks detailing the Vos, the Khinasi, the Brecht, the Anuirean and the Rjuven. What I'm finding myself lacking again and again, is more like Player's Secrets and DM's secrets. Background material that expand the information on the individual domains. So we'd get a high level of details in the individual domains. Some genealogies between the characters would be nice. Who is Aubrae Avan's mother, since she has a bloodline of 70? Does Boeruine have blood relations to the Dhoennals of Talinie? All such stuff that fills out the major gaps.

I think the major events of the worlds, such as ley line storms, sinking continents, etc, should really be up to the individual GMs to run. We shouldn't really be making any major adjustments of the world, instead we should make it more living and filled with people other than the rulers.

There are different forums here for a reason: some are for working on a specific project, like the BRCS conversion. In that case, there are some grounds for being canonical and conservative regarding the original material. For this project, we can talk about what "we should be doing."
But on this forum, and the Royal Library, well: if it's got anything at all to do with Birthright, why not share those ideas, regardless of scale or how radically they depart from the original game? If Arjan wants to create a world that tweaks some of the original concepts of BR - go for it! If that doesn't work for some people - fine. Some DM's might take his idea and tweak it a bit themselves, that's what good DM's do. They tailor ideas to fit their own particular campaigns.

All that being said, Angelbialaska, I would love to see more of exactly what you are talking about - ideas and details to flesh out the existing BR setting. I just think that creative contributions should be welcome on all levels, and appreciated as such.

Osprey

[Arjan]

Originally posted by irdeggman@Jan 4 2005, 02:46 AM
Now this land and people could have a greater potential if they were actually the lost tribe of Azrai. Azrai was the one god without a chosen tribe and was the master of magic (from the Shadow World - see the lost and minions of the lost from Blood Spawn). Instead of focusing on greater magic (which is what is implied/stated here) this race could have focused on magic based on the Seeming instead. Fits better with the Azrai concept and the writing that he taught the Lost well before Deismaar and the Andu even coming to Cerilia.
I read the part on the minions, and such a thing i intended to include.
The annunaki i wanted to introduce are enslavers capable of performing Bio-wizardry. in short words the results are exactly as the minions.

Maybe i should indeed focus more on the subject of the Lost

[Ryche]

I don't mean to be rude, but stone magic, pyramid magic, ley lines, Atlantis... Seems a lot like Rifts Atlantis??? Why would a person want techno-wizardy in a DnD game? Most people I game w/play DnD to get away from Rifts (although I do love it as a game and have been in one campaign for over 10 years.)????

Just my perspective..... :wacko:

[The Jew]

Originally posted by Ryche@Feb 24 2005, 09:31 PM
I don't mean to be rude, but stone magic, pyramid magic, ley lines, Atlantis... Seems a lot like Rifts Atlantis??? Why would a person want techno-wizardy in a DnD game? Most people I game w/play DnD to get away from Rifts (although I do love it as a game and have been in one campaign for over 10 years.)????

Just my perspective..... :wacko:
You have truly captured the spirit of this site with this comment ;)

[Green Knight]

I'll say amen to that - not even the Homebrew Forum is safe anymore... :lol:

[Green Knight]

Originally posted by Ryche@Feb 25 2005, 02:31 AM
Seems a lot like Rifts Atlantis???
Yes it does...and not very ssurprisingly, since that is where Arjan got his inspiration... :huh: