How to handle resurection of a scion

[irdeggman]

Based on the recent discussion this is something we should try to quantify. It doesn't have to be handled super-fast but should be resolved before the chaapter 3 spells resurrection is done.

A related topic would be how to handle a character that is divested of a bloodline.

[Bokey]

I voted for option #1, but I would be for banning the ability to "raise the dead" from the game completely. :o

[Arius Vistoon]

i voted #2
if a scion dead by ursupation, there are an explosion of rp near him....for me, the dead scion ( are lost for ever his bloodline, but nothing prevent to rebuild it )
if his haven't scion level or don't dead by ursupartion, he lost just one level as normal character

[Green Knight]

I allow wish/miracle to restore the blodline of a dead scion...however,

not many around who can actually cast those spells...except for a couple

of awnies.



B

[Angelbialaska]

I voted Other and that's because I feel that Resurrection should not exist in the game.

If anything should be used, it should be Wish or Miracle and that spell should restore the character to what it was before, with bloodline and full levels.

The cost involved in a casting of such a spell should be truly epic (I'm talking about complete drain of the Avan treasury or such), otherwise we'll just see plenty of restorations, since most can pay the gold required at least once.

[Raesene Andu]

Actually there wouldn't be that many resurrections because there aren't any clerics who can cast it (unless these temples have high level clerics hidden away somewhere). The Hand of Azrai, Rhobhier Nichalier, and potentially a PC cleric would be the only ones in Anuire I believe.

I would drop Raise Dead from the spell list, just rule that anyone who dies in Cerilia isn't willing to return from the land of the dead.

[The incredible, edible Phil]

I would suggest that when a character loses a level due to ressurection (or raise, or reincarnate, etc) the level lost must be a scion level. If the character still has a scion level (i.e. a Great or true bloodline originally) the character would remain blooded, but must adjust his bloodline according to the lesser bonus granted by the lower scion level (including blood abilities). Further, if the scion was a regent, he may reinvest himself with his holdings if no one has claimed them yet or an heir could willingly invest both bloodline and domain back to the until recently deceased regent.

[Osprey]

I voted Other as well, I mostly agree with Angelbiaska: only Wish or Miracle can restore a person to life. I would treat these like a True Resurrection spell, but retain the BR rule that a character who dies permanently retain their bloodline score. The 5000 xp cost, and the rarity of spellcasters able to cast 9th level spells, would insure the extreme rarity of this occurence, but make such a miracle still possible. This is a world of high magic and divine intervention, after all.

The reason for this desire is that there are currently multiple ways to regain one's lost bloodline if raised from the dead: the realm spell Bloodline Ward, and a few magic items (armor?) that store a scion's bloodline when he dies (and release to another scion of that character's lineage, which would likely include the just-deceased character too!).

The only sad thing about cutting Raise Dead and [True] Resurrection out of the cleric's spell list is their effectiveness in destroying undead. Also, if these spells were to be dropped, would their reverses (Slay Living and Destruction) also be cut from the lists? IMC I have removed both.

Osprey

[Sorontar]

I am more supportive of the idea that once you die, you lose your bloodline (unless you have taken special means to protect it). But for those who want to get their bloodline back when resurrected, why make it the same line? Let us say that the soul of the scion loses the blood abilities and blood strength once dead. However, when resurrected they are given a similar strength but a random bloodline and find that they have new bloodabilities??

eg. Scarva as BL Strength X and is of Reynir's line with abilities A and B
Scarva dies and is resurrected with BL Strength X but by some cruel twist, the land has given her Azrai's bloodline with new abilities C and D. Abilities A and B are lost.

Note that I am the type of player who likes to set up characters semi-randomly, not one who picks and chooses his blood abilities. This may not suit all players but if you want to try and do the impossible and bring back a character from the dead, then there has to be some gotcha even for bloodlines.

Sorontar

[Ariadne]

I voted for 2, because I think, nothing makes more angry, as having not only lost your bloodline, but additionally can’t use more than one level of a class, you have taken (apart from saving throws and base attack). So I think, after a raise dead or resurrection, the scion levels should be replaced. On the other hand I’m of the opinion, IF the former scion ever gets a miracle or wish on his behalf, the spell should not only restore the bloodline, but also the lost scion levels, if desired.

IMO the discussion isn’t that necessary, because there will be a hand full of wizards/ sorcerers or clerics, who can cast raise dead/ resurrection or miracle (cleric) as well as wish (wizard/ sorcerer) in a century of Cerilian history. Those spells are part of the PHB and should be uses normally, but FINDING a spellcaster, who can cast the desired spells (+will do it) is on a complete other page. And since magic items aren’t that often found on Cerilia, there aren’t much Rings of three wishes and scrolls of True Resurrection or Miracle around…

Well, if the former regent wants his old bloodline back, it is a great idea for a quest (go and find the magian and try to get a wish from him :D )

[Michael Romes]

I voted Other.

I do not think that raising should be removed from the game - even in the original 2E game the spell existed and the issue was seriously adressed in the Book of Priestcraft on p. 83

However then in 2E not all Gods granted major access to the sphere of Necromancy which restricted the number of clerics able to cast the spell and the level of the Cleric (9th) required to cast the spell reduced the number of persons able to cast the spell even more.

If one would not want to redesign the sphere system for 3.5E then the rule could simply be that the gods other than Nesirie, Ruornil, Sera and Kriesha NEVER grant Raise Dead as normal spell. Avani only as "quest spell" (p. 93 BoP).

"Death is sacred" from the Book of the Righteous could be one of the reasons if you use 3.5 rules and assume that all gods could grant the spell but don´t for other reasons.

Regarding the scion levels - if one uses scion levels in the game then why not use an existing rule for losing something? The Shadowdancer in the DMG loses 200 XP per Shadowdancer level when his shadow companion is destroyed with halve lost if he makes a DC 15 Fortitude save. A scion would then lose 200XP per scion level in case of death and if his XP drop below the point of the next lower level he loses scion levels first.

[RaspK_FOG]

I made my suggestion regarding raising on that other thread, but I would like to reiterate that if we go "no-going-back", I prefer Raesene Andu's idea...

[A_dark]

as i said in the other thread, treat everything as normal, but make the characters ex-scions, mimicking the ex-paladin or the ex-druid

[epicsoul]

Originally posted by Bokey@Jan 24 2005, 09:24 PM
I voted for option #1, but I would be for banning the ability to "raise the dead" from the game completely. :o
Ditto for me. I voted #1 and have the same feelings.

[irdeggman]

I'm closing this poll. Here are the results:

How should a resurrected scion be handled?
1. First level lost (if any is a scion level). Others are retained but no blood abilities, or bloodline strength or scion class abilities (i.e., only skills, hit points, saving throw bonuses are retained). [ 7 ] [35.00%]

2. Lose all scion levels and rebuild lost scion levels as desired [ 4 ] [20.00%]

3. Same as 2 only with more complicated rebuilding requirements (e.g., exp cost, time, etc.) [ 1 ] [5.00%]

4. Same as 1 except double the loss of any gain to leadership score from scion classes lost. [ 2 ] [10.00%]

5. Other, please specify (be as specific as possible) [ 4 ] [20.00%]

6. Abstain [ 2 ] [10.00%]

Total Votes: 20