Web Pages and TSR logos

[Matthew M. Colville]

Jonathan Picklesimer wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how to use TSR logos, like the Birthright banner (the
> cool looking sword thingy at the top of all of the Birthright products),
> in not-for-profit-totally-for-entertainment web pages?

Personally, I have no idea. However, the character sheets in my
campaign has the logo you're talking about, in color, at the top. It
really gets the players in the mood for the game when they're not just
looking at a generic character sheet.


-Matthew

-

[Jonathan Picklesimer]

Does anyone know how to use TSR logos, like the Birthright banner (the
cool looking sword thingy at the top of all of the Birthright products),
in not-for-profit-totally-for-entertainment web pages?

Jonathan Picklesimer

[Matthew M. Colville]

Robert Harper wrote:
>
> At 08:53 PM 1/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >You cannot use any TSR artwork or logos on your web sites. Sorry.
> >
> >--
> >Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
> >TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/
> >
> I was wondering how long that would take. Comeon now folks, artwork is done
> by artists. They kind of like to get paid for it. Now who is going to pay
> for it if they don't own it - which means controlling it? That isn't TSR
> being nasty, that is creative talent being paid for being creative.

Oh give me a break. Are you suggesting that if Joe Schmoe puts a piece
of art from a TSR product on his web site that somehow, magically, all
previous payments made to that artist by TSR are suddenly stripped from
him?
TSR has the right to enforce their rights, and I'd never want to take
that away from them, but I'm not convinced that preventing someone from
creating a fantastic web page using TSR art in any way harms TSR or any
artists, illegal though it may be.
I'm an author. Nothing I've written has yet been published, but I like
to think about what would happen if it *were* published. And there's a
lot I would allow in terms of web pages. Even though I would have the
*right* to stop someone from scanning and using the cover, for instance,
of my book, I wouldn't *want* to stop them. I would dig it! The goal
should be to encourage people to spread the word about your product and
get more people interested.
TSR is harmed when people stop buying their product. . .and scanning
the cover of the Forgotten Realms boxed set to use on your web sight
isn't going to stop *anyone* from buying TSR stuff. Neither would it
harm an artist, since no reasonable person is going to drop $30 on the
FR Set just to own the cover art!
Additionally, Sean Reynolds is wrong. In fact, you can put anything
you want on your website. It might be *illegal* but you can still do
it.
Lastly, this is all I have to say on this subject. Don't bother
mailing me and telling me to take this to Email, or asking me not to
discuss this further on this mailing list. I'd rather talk about
Birthright anyway.

-Matthew

-

[TSRInc@aol.co]

You cannot use any TSR artwork or logos on your web sites. Sorry.

- --
Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/

[Robert Harper]

At 08:53 PM 1/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>You cannot use any TSR artwork or logos on your web sites. Sorry.
>
>--
>Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
>TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/
>
I was wondering how long that would take. Comeon now folks, artwork is done
by artists. They kind of like to get paid for it. Now who is going to pay
for it if they don't own it - which means controlling it? That isn't TSR
being nasty, that is creative talent being paid for being creative.

There are fantasy archives on the Net with lots of pictures for downloading.
Do some surfing and use those.

__________________________________________________ _________________
| |
| We ask ourselves if there is a God, how can this happen? |
| Better to ask, if there is a God, must it be sane? |
| |
| Lucien LaCroix |
|_________________________________________________ __________________|

[Jonathan Picklesimer]

Ah well! One could have hoped! :)

On Wed, 1 Jan 1997 TSRInc@aol.com wrote:

> You cannot use any TSR artwork or logos on your web sites. Sorry.
>
> --
> Sean Reynolds, TSR Online Coordinator
> TSRinc@aol.com | AOL: keyword TSR | http://users.aol.com/tsrinc/
>
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[Eric Putnam]

On Wed, 1 Jan 1997, Matthew M. Colville wrote:

[SNIP]
> Are you suggesting that if Joe Schmoe puts a piece
> of art from a TSR product on his web site that somehow, magically, all
> previous payments made to that artist by TSR are suddenly stripped from
> him?

Nobody's suggesting that. What they *are* suggesting is that the use of a
piece of artwork on a web page is a use that the artist isn't being paid
for. If the artist hasn't given his work into the public domain, that's a
violation of copyright law.

> TSR has the right to enforce their rights, and I'd never want to take
> that away from them, but I'm not convinced that preventing someone from
> creating a fantastic web page using TSR art in any way harms TSR or any
> artists, illegal though it may be.

One of TSR's rights is the right to control the distribution of artwork
for which it pays artists. This right is given under the law, so
"illegal" and "TSR's rights" kind of merge here.

> I'm an author. Nothing I've written has yet been published, but I like
> to think about what would happen if it *were* published. And there's a
> lot I would allow in terms of web pages. Even though I would have the
> *right* to stop someone from scanning and using the cover, for instance,
> of my book, I wouldn't *want* to stop them. I would dig it! The goal
> should be to encourage people to spread the word about your product and
> get more people interested.

But the idea is TSR *doesn't* dig it. TSR feels that, by advertising,
it's spreading the word just fine. TSR would rather hold the line on
copyright infringement than have the word spread by others. That's their
right, too. Even though you, as an individual author, might think that
"free advertising" is cool, TSR as a corporation sees only copyright
infringement in web-page uses of its art.

> TSR is harmed when people stop buying their product. . .and scanning
> the cover of the Forgotten Realms boxed set to use on your web sight
> isn't going to stop *anyone* from buying TSR stuff. Neither would it
> harm an artist, since no reasonable person is going to drop $30 on the
> FR Set just to own the cover art!

I hope I've demonstrated that this is not why TSR is reminding everyone
that use of copyrighted art on web-pages is illegal and violates copyright.

> Additionally, Sean Reynolds is wrong. In fact, you can put anything
> you want on your website. It might be *illegal* but you can still do
> it.

Sure, you can do it. You can also get your page pulled by your ISP when
TSR sends a threat letter. People, displaying art on a web-page is
considered "distribution." Distribution of copyrighted art without the
copyright-holder's permission violates the copyright-holder's rights and
is illegal. If it's not expressly given into the "public domain" (and
those words must be used), it's copyrighted. You can use it as wallpaper
in Windows, you can convert it into icons, you can alter it with a paint
program (these all fall under "personal use"), but you *can't*
distribute it.

I suppose what Sean *should* have said is "Using TSR logos and/or artwork
on your website violates trademark and/or copyright law. Please don't do
it, or if you are doing it, please cut it out before we let slip the dogs
of law." :)

> Lastly, this is all I have to say on this subject. Don't bother
> mailing me and telling me to take this to Email, or asking me not to
> discuss this further on this mailing list. I'd rather talk about
> Birthright anyway.

Me, too. I am not a lawyer, and the above should not be construed as
legal advice, yadda yadda. I'm just someone who's read up on copyright
law in an attempt to end or forestall the flamewars....

ObBirthright: How prevalent is art in Cerilia? Is it a nobles-only thing,
some being patrons of the arts and some not; or is it more wide-spread,
for instance fine art for sale in major cities? I suppose it would differ
by region, but can anyone come up with some generalizations? (I hate to
return after all this time just to ask another open-ended question, but I
really do want to see what y'all think. :) )

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