Member of the Council

[Angelbialaska]

College Wizard

The College of Sorcery is the largest institution of human and half-elven spellcasters in all of Cerilia and those attending the college very often achieve greatness in life. A few of those attending the college are offered the opportunity to continue their studies in the College in advanced magic, when others finish as fully-fledged Magicians and Wizards. In addition to their advanced studies, the advanced students are also expected to teach some of the less advanced students. These advanced classes run from 3 to 9 years, the average time spent being 6 years.

Prerequisites:
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 3rd level arcane spells and must possess at least one realm magic spell. In addition the Wizard must be casting spells after memorization from a spellbook.
Feats: College Student and at least one metamagic feat
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Special: To become a College Wizard the applicant must receive approval by the Council of the College and must each year pay a fee of 2000 gold pieces to be allowed to study. On average 2 students are accepted per year.

1st: +0 attack bonus, +0 fortitude, +0 reflex, +2 will; Special: Improved spell acquisition, Library access, College spellcasting, Source access, Realm spell mastery; +1 to spell progression
2nd: +1 attack bonus,+0 fortitude, +0 reflex, +3 will; Special: Bonus feat; +1 to spell progression
3rd: +1 attack bonus, +1 fortitude, +1 reflex, +3 will; Special: Realm spell mastery, Reduced spell costs; +1 to spell progression

Special features:
Improved spell acquisition: College Wizards have access to a library that is larger and filled with more information than any other library in Anuire. They have access to forbidden areas that ordinary college students. To reflect this, the College Wizard learns one more spell when acquiring a level than an ordinary wizard. So three spells per level rather than two. This advantage remains even after the character finishes with the council Wizard, for as long as she has access to the libraries of the College. In addition to this the College Wizard receives a circumstance bonus to spellcraft equal to the level of College Wizard for the purposes of researching and learning spells.

Library access: Just like College Wizards have access to almost all spells in existence, they also learn how to search efficiently in the library, searching for any knowledge. To reflect this a College Wizard can use any Knowledge skill untrained and if ranks are possessed there is a +4 circumstance bonus to the knowledge check, provided that the College Wizard has 1d6 hours to search through the library.

Source access: Only the council and a select few students get access to the ley lines and the mebhaigl brought in by those ley lines. The level of these ley lines vary, but there is access to a level 7 source. To research and cast realm spells, the College has a pool of RP that are offered to the advanced students. Each student receives 1 RP per domain turn as part of their entrance fee. The Council must give approval before a student casts any realm spells and a Council member will oversee the entire process.

Realm Spell mastery: On 1st and 3rd level of College Wizard, the character may select one Realm Spell that they have access to, which they may add to their list over known Realm spells.

Bonus feat: A 2nd level College Wizard gains a feat. This feat may be one of the following: Any metamagic Feat, Any item Creation feat, Spell Focus, Greater spell focus, spell penetration or greater spell penetration

Reduced spell costs: A lot of dedicated research of realm spells and how to utilize the little resources that the College Wizard has available and this allows the character to find the most efficient way of casting a realm spell. The Wizard can choose to spend twice as much time casting a spell, in which case the cost of a spell cast by the character is halved, whether it's in GB, RP or ordinary gold pieces. The minimum cost for realm spells is 1 RP and 1 GB, the costs can't be reduced to below this.

Special: Should a Council Member ever leave the Council, they will lose all class features of this class, since they are unable to research with the same resources as before.

[irdeggman]

Several things:

I don't know why a prestige class should be created to account for one of only 10 individuals in Cerilia - note this is not just Anuire the Council comes from all across Cerilia.

Prerequisites should be capable of casting realms spells (and knowing X number). Council members don't join the council to learn realm spells (well nothing says they can't learn more) - they are supposed to be source masters and by implication capable of casting the most powerful of realm spells.

I don't think that the process for learning (and casting) realmspells in the BRCS-playtest will change very much. There has not been a lot of comments made in the past to infer that it will. I do believe that the number and specifics of the individual spells will change though.

Alright, having said that the process for learning realm spells as implied in this prestige class is not consistent. Realm spells (like epic spells) are all individually know. So even if two wizards both know a spell called Alchemy they are unique spells, even though the may accomplish the same thing so it is not the same as simply learning a spell from another wizard. The bonus for researching a realm spell for council menbers could be increasd from the standard +2 (in the BRCS) to +4 (or more).

As I read the BoM council members come in with their ownley lines connected to their own sources vice having predetermined "set" sources at the other ends. This makes sense in many ways and also accounts for differences in what each new memeber brings to the council.

With all of that I just don't see enough reasons to include this prestige class.

[Osprey]

Interesting PrC. I like the benefits of it.
Question: Does Improved Spell Acquisition apply only to PrC levels gained, or any time a wizard spellcasting level is gained? Might be good to specify there.

Might be good to rename Cooperative Spellcasting, since Cooperative Spell is a metamagic feat in Complete Arcane.
Perhaps Council Magic? Cooperative Realm Magic? Power of the Council? Strength of Unity?
Are all of the Council members lawful? I seem to recall some of them weren't, but I could be wrong. Also, a small edit: to say "must be Lawful" is sufficient in the writeup - that automatically means LG, LN, or LE.
So no sorcerers allowed as council mages, only wizards? Remember, 2e had no sorcerers, so it might be good to extend membership to any true mage, not just wizards.
All in all, good work. I like it. :)

[Angelbialaska]

Irdeggman:

Well, I know that the amount of characters is limited, but that's just like certain templates being limited. And I could imagine a character in a party becoming Council Member if they work closely with the Council. I feel that there would be some rule to account for how they work together and such.

The prerequisite of being able to cast realm spells is fine. However Realm spells are passed on to the heir, unlike Ley Lines which are not, at least the way I read it, so they're not that individual.

Council members do not bring their own ley lines. Each council member control a ley line, and these ley lines are protected by some real nasty special magic. And it sounds like the 10 lines have been there ever since Roele's death. I may misread that part though.

However where do they draw their power from? All provinces are accounted for and the members that are mentioned aren't any of the wizards that hold Anuire's sources. So I think the council have their own hidden sources that they pass on from member to member.

Osprey:
Improved Spell Aquisition would be only for PrC levels gained. The Cooperative thing can easily get another name.

The Council serve Imperial City and through the Imperial City they serve the Chamberlain and eventually the Emperor. That was why I thought of the Council as being Lawful.

Since the magic at the College of Sorcery is for studies and more studies, then it doesn't fit at all with the naturally spellcasting Sorcerer. I'd say that College of Sorcery is only for Wizards and Magicians and of those only blooded Wizards may be Council Members.

[Osprey]

The Council serve Imperial City and through the Imperial City they serve the Chamberlain and eventually the Emperor. That was why I thought of the Council as being Lawful.

Hmmm...I see your reasoning, it makes sense, I just see a Lawful alignment as being far more pervasive than loyalty. A chaotic character could be slavishly loyal to a lord, ideal, city, etc...it would be more because of their personal beliefs rather than devotion to a standing code or some such. Dunno...I expect Council members would tend to be lawful, just not sure I agree that they must be so.

What might make more sense (to me at least) is that they are required to swear an oath of loyalty and service upon joining the council. The PrC is, after all, something of an institution, so how does one require an alignment? An oath makes a lot more sense, especially if it is magically enforced by a geas or magic item with similar properties.

[irdeggman]

The prerequisite of being able to cast realm spells is fine. However Realm spells are passed on to the heir, unlike Ley Lines which are not, at least the way I read it, so they're not that individual.

Read from where? The BRCS-playtest (which this must match since it is in the d20 Atlas section and not home-brewed specifically talks about them being individual (pg 135)). Heck even in 2nd ed Realm Spells had to be researched (BRRB pg 82, except for the randomly starting 1d3 - no specification as to where they came from in the rules, but it is clear that Realm Spells are not taught but researched - and the 2nd ed rules for general spell research made every spell researched an individual spell that only the creator knew, unless he shared it with others - that was why researched spells didn't count towards the maximum number of spells a character could know.)


Council members do not bring their own ley lines. Each council member control a ley line, and these ley lines are protected by some real nasty special magic. And it sounds like the 10 lines have been there ever since Roele's death. I may misread that part though.

Again where is this from? True it doesn't specifically state my stand either. (All references to the College of Sorcery are from the BoM (56-60) and pretty much that is the only 2nd ed product that has anything except a side reference to it.) But as you pointed out earlier ley lines are sundered upon the regent's death unless he did a ley link action prior to dying. (BoM pg 31) This backs up my belief that council members bring their own ley lines in. Basically they bring in their own outside source and then run a new ley line into the city, of course the "other" council members must allow this to happen (see the special protections for the ley lne, source) . It is more logical to belief that at least a large number of council members died without setting into to place the ley link process especially since ths cuts off the council memebers access to the ley line.


However where do they draw their power from? All provinces are accounted for and the members that are mentioned aren't any of the wizards that hold Anuire's sources. So I think the council have their own hidden sources that they pass on from member to member.

What are you talking about? Are you saying that every source throughout Cerillia has been tapped? There is a reason that only 2 council members are identified in the BoM - basically to allow the DM to set up whomever he wishes to be the other council members, or to just let them remain "secret".

There is nothing in the BoM to imply that all council members must be from Anuire, gosh what race is current leader (Azusena Karitina) - doesn't sound Anuirean to me.

[irdeggman]

I would add a prerequisite of ranks in Diplomacy, 5 sounds like a good number. This is to justify the logic that the old College fell because of a lack of proper diplomacy with the regents in the land.

I agree with Osprey on the lawful thing, maybe instead can't be chaotic in nature.

How can you be partially lawful? You can be partially neutral, but not partially lawful or chaotic or good or evil.

What is meant by the special prereq;
The council member may not be affiliated with others than the College of Sorcery?

Is this other organizations? Can they have taken the 12 Oaths? How about working out of the college of magic in Meodre?

[Raesene Andu]

Member of the Council

Sorry, but I agree with Duane on this. Making a prestige class just for the 10 members of the college council isn't that useful, as most PCs aren't going to be sitting around serving on the college staff. So it would be mainly a NPC class and not really suitable for the Atlas because of this.

However, I do see the benefits of a similar prestige class for wizard who undertake advanced study at the college. You have some good ideas here that could be used or modified.

First I would rename the class, call it College Wizard, or Royal Wizard, or something similar. Make it available for wizard who return to the College of Sorcery later in life to complete advanced studies, or for wizards who never leave the college, but continuing on studying, becoming masters in their own right (and so a wizard who stayed at the college could become a Wizard 5/Royal Wizard 3 sort of thing.)


Prerequisites:
Blooded: The character must be blooded and the blood must be untainted by Azrai's touch
Class: Must be a Wizard
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 5th level Wizard spells
Alignment: Must be partially Lawful.
Special: Must be invited by the other council members. The council member may not be affiliated with others than the College of Sorcery. Only 10 Members of the Council may exist at a time.

Drop the requirement for the class to be wizard. I don't know of any prestige class that requires a specific base class. Also drop the requirement to be blooded, and the must be lawful requirement. Neither are really needed, although you could keep the no bloodlines of Azrai thing, that fits :)

Lower the spellcasting requirement to Must be able to cast 3rd level arcane spells if you want to make the prestige class accessable to lower levels.

Change the special to: Must be invited by the College of Sorcery council of masters to undergo the advanced studies in magic, or something like that. To underline that this class is only for those that wizards see great things for. Also mention something about the time the wizard must spend at the college to learn these secrets. Perhaps something like 1 month every season. This would mean that a regent wizard, who took up this prestige class, would need to give up one action round each domain turn for the course of his studies. This fits in neatly with the domain side of the game. If wizard isn't a regent then it might need to be longer, perhaps 2 months out of 3. You want to leave some time for adventuring though :)

You could add in some other requirements, but there is no need to go overboard really, as this class isn't easily available as it is.


Improved spell acquisition: Council Members have access to a library that is larger and filled with more information than any other library in Anuire. They have access to forbidden areas that college students and even faculty members cannot visit. To reflect this, the Council Wizard learns one more spell when acquiring a level than an ordinary wizard. So three spells rather than 2. Also the Council Member learn 1 realm spell automatically without research for each Member of the Council level.

Like this, but make sure that it applies to the wizard for any future level of wizard they take.

Cut the section on learning 1 realm spell and make it into a new ability...

Realm Spell Mastery: During his advanced studies at the college, the wizard learns the secrets of 1 realm spell. This is in addition to the base number of realm spells known by regent wizards.

Make this ability available at 1st and 3rd level, so a 3rd level Royal Wizard knows 2 additional realm spells.


Funding: A Council Member receives a funding from the College of Sorcery for being a Council Member and for teaching a few advanced classes in the College. They receive 100 x character level gold pieces each quarter (3 months, a turn) for personal research and spellcasting.

Drop this if you change the class to a non-council one.


Ley line access: Upon becoming a Council Member, the character receives access to one of the 10 ley lines running into Imperial City. This Ley Line goes to a level 1 source holding hidden away from all others. The line has ancient spells around it, which protects it against all sorts of ley line disrupting spells. Each domain turn a character gathers 1 RP from this source.

It hasn't be specified in any of the canon material that the ten ley lines from the College go to level 1 sources. They could go to more powerful sources. It would need to be defined (perhaps in the description of the College of Sorcery in the Atlas) exactly where these sources are and how powerful they are.

Most of the source holdings around the Imperial City have already been claimed by wizards, so can't get RP from them twice. If the college takes RP from sources in provinces near the city, then someone else misses out.

A possibility is that each of these 10 ley lines all link to Caerbhaighlien of various sizes, which is why they don't show up anywhere, and why they are so heavily protected. If you decide that this is true, then they would need to be described, so that they can be found by other wizards :) Good adventuring ideas actually.

The rest of the abilities only apply if you keep the class as one focused on council members and would need to be changed if you don't.

[The incredible, edible Phil]

Some prestige classes that could serve as inspiration could be:

Halruaan Elder (Shining South page 27) which I think is very nice in that it grants an ability that allows a character to reduce the increased spell slot for casting metamagicked spells by 1 (each time you must specify a metamagic feat).

Guild Wizard of Waterdeep (Magic of Faerûn page 26) introduces the concept of a spell pool that members of the guild can tap the "pool" for spells.

The previous prestige class update to 3.5 is the Mage of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane page 48). I find this prestige class holds some nice incentives, including an ability at 10th level called Regent that grants a charisma bonus to all dealings within the order. This could easily be substituted to becoming one of the Deans at the College.

[Angelbialaska]

Okay, have edited the class a bit.

[The incredible, edible Phil]

I think the class has potential to be a full-fledged 10 level PrC myself. If we were to expand on your ideas we need to determine the focus of the class and how to stack that over the course of a 10 level progression.


Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 3rd level arcane spells and must possess at least one realm magic spell. In addition the Wizard must be casting spells after memorization from a spellbook.
Feats: College Student and at least one metamagic feat
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Special: To become a College Wizard the applicant must receive approval by the Council of the College and must each year pay a fee of 2000 gold pieces to be allowed to study. On average 2 students are accepted per year.



Requirements:

Considering the spellcasting requitrement, one can say the character needs to cast spells as a level 5 (or above) wizard. The realm spell I don't think is necessary as many in the student body are not regents (except for the upper echelons).

Under feats, is College Student a feat?

The special requirement is pretty nice, but I would just change it that an applicant's tuition be 2000 gold pieces a year, but make note that to begin formal studies requires a tuition of say 10 000 gold pieces. I'm also tempted to add that the tuition can be waived if the character provides any magical item or new magical lore equivalent to the sum.


Class Features:

Just a slight alteration for Improved spell acquisition ability, I think it should read:

College Wizards have access to the great libraries maintained by the college. To reflect this, the College Wizard learns one additional spell when acquiring a level in a wizard class. However, the College does not instruct the necromantic arts and the character may not learn any spells from the school of Necromancy in this manner. This advantage remains for as long as the character pays the tuition and remains a member in good standing. In addition to this the College Wizard receives a circumstance bonus to spellcraft equal to the level of College Wizard for the purposes of researching and learning spells.


The ability Realm spell Mastery is confusing. I take it Angelica meant that the character learns an additional realm spell. I suggest making this ability available only at the higher levels as not all wizards are regents.


My proposed class progression:

Level BAB FORT REF WILL FEATURE
1 0 0 0 2 +1 Spell Progression, Senior Student
2 1 0 0 3 +1 Spell Progression, Lab Assistant
3 1 1 1 3 +1 Spell Progression
4 2 1 1 4 +1 Spell Progression, Junior Professor
5 2 1 1 4 +1 Spell Progression
6 3 2 2 5 +1 Spell Progression, Professor
7 3 2 2 5 +1 Spell Progression
8 4 2 2 6 +1 Spell Progression, Tenure
9 4 3 3 6 +1 Spell Progression
10 5 3 3 7 +1 Spell Progression, Dean


Senior Student: Encompasses the benefits of Library access and improved spell acquisition.

Lab Assistant: The character gains the feat Improved Counterspell.

Junior Professor: The College Wizards gains a bonus feat and may select a single realm spell as one of his acquired spells upon obtaining this level.

Professor: The College Wizard has risen in the ranks o fthe College and may select a single realm spell as one of his acquired spells upon obtaining this level. Further, he gains a +2 circumstances bonus to all charisma related checks when interacting with students and faculty within the College.

Tenure: The college Wizard has become a fixture within the college and may access nearly all the resources of the College. The character gains the Magical Artisan Feat (reduces the cost of item creation to 75%).

Dean: The College Wizard has been promoted to the council of Deans of which there are only 10 at any one time. The College of Sorcery is considered an Arcane Sanctum (as per the feat of that name) for the College Wizard. Further, the College Wizard inherits one of the arcane sources (usually the weakest) tied to the College.

[Osprey]

The previous prestige class update to 3.5 is the Mage of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane page 48). I find this prestige class holds some nice incentives, including an ability at 10th level called Regent that grants a charisma bonus to all dealings within the order. This could easily be substituted to becoming one of the Deans at the College.

Yep, I think this is a pretty direct representation of what a dedicated, resident wizard of the RCoS might look like - which makes it seem somewhat unnecessary to create a parallel PrC. In my Academy of Magic wonder (posted in articles: Wonders on homepage), I used this PrC to this effect, and used the idea of a Spellpool to explain why the Academy's level stacks with its base source level - enough small spells cast into a pool equal a really big reservoir of mebhaighal which becomes equivalent to impermanent source levels.

[Angelbialaska]

The trouble with making the dean level dependent of the prestige class means that you need to be 15th level wizard before you can be member of the council. However Book of Magecraft says that Wizards of level 9+ can be council members.

Also where does it say that the Academy doesn't teach Necromancy? Necromancy is an Anuirean unlikely school, together with Illusion, but if anything shouldn't be taught, then I think it should be Enchantment, which is shunned in Anuire.

[The incredible, edible Phil]

I mistook the Khinasi ban on necromancy to be on Anuireans, so that condition can be removed.

[Angelbialaska]

Also College Student is a feat that is used to represent that someone has attended the College of Sorcery to learn their arts.

College Student
Prerequisites: Wizard or Magician
Effect: The character has attended the College of Sorcery in the Imperial City of Anuire. They possess either the silver ring that mark a Magician or the gold ring that mark a Wizard. When wearing the ring they gain a +2 circumstance bonus to all charisma based checks when dealing with some who look at the school favorable. In addition to this the character also enjoys a +2 competence bonus to spellcraft to learn spells from other College Students, as they are all taught the same ways of learning magic.

[Osprey]

I recall (Ian's?) version of the RCoS had a white necromancer sitting on the council - one dedicated to the beneficial forms and countermagic of the necromantic school. That made excellent sense to me. In fact, there was a Master of each school on the council if memory serves. Methinks this is a good basis for council organization in the wizardly Royal College.

It might be interesting to have higher-level magicians sitting in as masters of illusion and divination, rather than wizards, as the magician can be such a skilled specialist in these schools. Sadly though, not even a blooded magician can use a ley line or source magic...they would still make excellent deans or stewards of the College, as they might very well exceed their wizardly counterparts in their preferred art.

[Raesene Andu]

It wasn't my version, but it was what became part of the old Online City project.

The members of the College Council were...

Azusena Karitina (19th level enchantress) - Magus Prime
Treven Gavinhorne (9th level wizard) - Master of Evocation
Nina Orinthar (10th level wizard) - Master of Enchantment
Duraend Soeran (11th level necromancer) - Master of Necromancy
Halmied Talien (12th level magician) - Master of Illusion
Bjorn Hlarsson (14th level Transmuter) - Master of Transmutation
Jahan el-Tureem (15th level Conjurer) - Master of Conjuration
Ansen Colbaer (16th level magician) - Master of Divination
Vaesil Ravensblood (16th level Abjurer) - Master of Abjuration
Moerel the Wise (18th level wizard) - Keeper of College Seal

Before you complain about the levels of these wizard, almost all are middle-aged or older. Moerel is 110 I think, and Azusena is even older (although she still looks young). The youngest is Treven who is in his thirties, the rest have all been in the college for most of their lives and have become quite high level during that time.

I can post there full stats sometime (but all are 2E stats) if you think it would be a good idea to include their info in the Organisations section of the Atlas. It wouldn't be difficult to convert them over.

[Angelbialaska]

I would remove the two Magicians from the Council. The Book of Magecraft is very very specific about Council members being full Wizards and not Magicians. Magicians cannot use Realm Magic and Ley Lines, which may be the primary reason for this.

Also I would have Azusena Karitina as Master of Enchantment, since she's a specialist wizard of that school. And isn't Gavinthorne mentioned as being an Invoker?

Of the 10 members I would have none be Keepers or Magus Prime. All are equal in the council, each have one vote, etc.

So I'd more have it be 8 masters of a specific school, 1 master of true magic and 1 master of lesser magic, representing the 8 schools, wizards in general and magicians in general. All would either be Wizards or specialist Wizards.

[irdeggman]

I don't hinkI'd necessarily remove themagicians. The BoM was a 2nd ed product, we are going to 3.5. In2nd ed a character couldn't be a wizard/magician. If a scion was amagician he could never be a wizard. 2nd ed also had no sorcerers. I don't think any spontaneous casters belong at the college though. Also I don't see hay a 1/2 elf couldn't be a member of the council. The council members are secret and are masters of knowledge and teaching, who best to involve in the study of true magic then a race that is inherently a master of it? A full elf might have problems being there, especially from the elvenside "Why are you teaching the humans the secrets of the arcane?" but a 1/2 elf could fit in. Besides where is a 1/2 elf safest in a human society than behind closed walls (i.e., the college).

As far as a feat for gaining spells, etc. from studying at the college. In the Complete Arcane there is a feat (hidden in the back among the organizations section) called Collegiate Wizard. It must be taken at first level and doubles the number of spells a wizards learns per level in addition to a bonuse to spellcraft checks (IIRC). There has been mcuh talk about how balanced this feat is on the various boards, but in this case it seems to fit quite well. It could be a good basis for a new BR specific feat (could even parallel the original requirement to force the character to spend 3 levels at the college) or just use some variatin of the optional training rules in the DMG.

[Raesene Andu]

While it is all very well for the college to say it wants all wizards on its council, I doubt there are that many high level wizards around, which is the reason why the two magicians (specialists in divination and illusion) are on the council.

[Angelbialaska]

There are many high level wizards around. Just take a glance out over the realm wizards.

Aelies, Caine, Torele Anviras, the Wizard, Second Swamp Mage and the Sword Mage could all be in the council. Dosiere could too, and since he's Diviner he could be Master of that. And here we're talking Anuire.

The council apparently consist of Wizards of all regions.

So moving on to Khinasi we have Khalil el-Arrasi, Red Wizard, Bedoureg, Barouya, Jayim el-Zisef, Swan Mage, Kalilah bint Faroud, El-Sirad, Gray Shadow, Dashid, Wind Mage and the White Sorceress.

Until now we have only focused on those established realm wizards. There are probably at least twice the amount of what I have mentioned that are of sufficient level and skill to be in the Council.

[ConjurerDragon]

Raesene Andu schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=24&t=2983

>

> Raesene Andu wrote:

> While it is all very well for the college to say it wants all wizards on its council, I doubt there are that many high level wizards around, which is the reason why the two magicians (specialists in divination and illusion) are on the council.

>

And of course because the Royal College of Sorcery accepts also

Magicians as students, not only Wizards. If these Magicians learn at the

College they need teachers who can teach them and as the Magicians are

more than just specialized Wizards they´ll need Magicians as teachers -

and likely a Magician in the Ruling Council.

bye

Michael.

[irdeggman]

And in 3.5 there is no longer a restriction that a magician must be non-blooded. A character can now multiclass as magicain/wizard or wizard/sorcerer or magician/sorcerer, etc.

Different game mechanics, different rules and restrictions.

[Raesene Andu]

I don't think any wizard who is currently a regent in his own right would sit on the council of the college of sorcery. That would make it a political body, like the Imperial Senate, rather than a council of wizard dealing primarily with the college itself and with monitoring magic in the Imperial City.

I would prefer to see the college council as the highest ranking staff members/teachers in the college. Most likely they are the only ones available for teaching, as given the small number of true wizards around, there isn't going to be a lot of skilled wizards available as teachers at the college.

Also, remember that the college does teach both magicians and true wizards, and in fact a good number of their members are likely magicians rather than wizards.

[Angelbialaska]

BOM: p 56
Only wizards may sit on the council, and a wizard must have attained at least 9th level to gain a council seat.


BOM: p 58
Graduates receive a ring - silver for magicians, gold for wizards - embossed with the college's symbol.

That clearly states that there's a difference between Wizards and Magicians and that only Wizards may sit on the council, otherwise why would it say ONLY wizards? Also there's the whole thing with each council member controlling a ley line, something only Wizards may do.

[Raesene Andu]

It does, but there is no reason why that can't be changed. The college obviously is not the power it was during the height of the empire and perhaps they have been forced to make sacrifices just like everyone else. In a perfect world it would be ten wizards on the council, but perhaps there aren't ten wizards available, so two magicians have filled places instead. Another member of council is 110 years old, well past retirement age. Perhaps he is only continuing to serve on the college council because no replacement can be found (good opportunity for a PC wizard to fill in there).

I'm not going to quibble over such small matters though. Whoever takes the time to sit down and write up the description for the college of sorcery (see the Organisations section of the Atlas) can decide on how things are arranged. If everyone agrees, then that will become the official version of the college and its council. I don't have time to do this right now, so if you want to do it and post the information here in this forum for everyone to discuss then you can decide on how the college is setup, and who sits on its council.

Here is what I have set down so far for the College. As this is a major institution I'd like to see at least 1-2 pages on it. There is no need to set out the full stats of all the council, but just a quick mention of their names and basic info would be good.

COLLEGE OF SORCERY

Regent: Ruling Council
Alignment: Neutral
Status: NPC Domain


Holding Level Province Domain
Source 0 Imperial City Imperial City


Treasury: 4 GB / 0 RP
Income: 3 GB (Special) / 0 RP
Expenses: 2 GB (Special 2 GB)

The Royal College of Sorcery was founded nearly a millennium ago by a trio of Anuirean wizards who sought to increase the body of magical knowledge understood by human spellcasters of Cerilia.

LOCATIONS
The college only has one major holding, and that is the College of Sorcery itself, a sprawling estate that spreads across nearly a fifth of the aptly named Wizard’s Isle in the Imperial City of Anuire.

IMPORTANT FIGURES
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OTHER ASSETS
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The same goes for anyone else who has strong feelings about how a particular realm/guild/temple/wizards/whatever should be portrayed. If you want your version in the Atlas, then please write it and submit it to this forum. As long as everyone else approves of it, then it will be included. If you don't like something, then offer an alternative.

[A_dark]

Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Feb 4 2005, 10:43 PM
It does, but there is no reason why that can't be changed.
Is there a reason it should be changed?

[Angelbialaska]

I've got some stuff written about the College of Sorcery, but I don't know how to upload it.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by A_dark+Feb 5 2005, 08:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (A_dark @ Feb 5 2005, 08:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Raesene Andu@Feb 4 2005, 10:43 PM
It does, but there is no reason why that can&#39;t be changed.
Is there a reason it should be changed? [/b][/quote]
Yes, because the game mechanics have changed drastically. In 2nd ed only humans, and elven blood could be magic users (core rules) except that gnomes could be illusionists. There were no sorcerers and only humans (maybe 1/2 elves too, I can&#39;t remember exactly) could be bards (except in BR which added elves).

In 2nd ed a character could only take one class per group (i.e. either fighter ranger or paladin but not all). In 3.5 there is no restriction. In 2nd ed there complex rules for multiclassing, in 3.5 these have changed.

In 2nd ed a scion couldn&#39;t be a magician, again this has changed.

Why lock into a rule based so strongly on the 2nd ed game mechanics?

[Angelbialaska]

Originally posted by irdeggman+Feb 5 2005, 08:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (irdeggman @ Feb 5 2005, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by A_dark@Feb 5 2005, 08:40 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Raesene Andu@Feb 4 2005, 10:43 PM
It does, but there is no reason why that can&#39;t be changed.
Is there a reason it should be changed?
Yes, because the game mechanics have changed drastically. In 2nd ed only humans, and elven blood could be magic users (core rules) except that gnomes could be illusionists. There were no sorcerers and only humans (maybe 1/2 elves too, I can&#39;t remember exactly) could be bards (except in BR which added elves).

In 2nd ed a character could only take one class per group (i.e. either fighter ranger or paladin but not all). In 3.5 there is no restriction. In 2nd ed there complex rules for multiclassing, in 3.5 these have changed.

In 2nd ed a scion couldn&#39;t be a magician, again this has changed.

Why lock into a rule based so strongly on the 2nd ed game mechanics? [/b][/quote]
First off then Birthright doesn&#39;t have Gnomes, at least not as part of the character races. The 5 subtypes of humans, elves, dwarves, halflings and half-elves are available as races.

Only blooded humans and those with elven blood (½-elves and elves) can cast true magic. This should be carried over, since I feel it means a lot to the setting, as it limits the amounts of Wizards running around. There were no sorcerers, since sorcerers in general doesn&#39;t fit the setting, except perhaps there may be some elven sorcerers. Controlling magic in Cerilia is difficult.

I agree that multiclass rules have changed and that things should get adjusted to fit. Perhaps add the classes together and then dividing by the number of classes. For instance Fighters gather 100% province and 100% law, while Cleric collect 100% province, 50% law, 100% temple. Then add those two together to 200% province, 150% law and 100% temple and divide it by two: 100% province, 75% law, 50% temple? Then it wouldn&#39;t really matter with skills, something which I feel forces people to focus on certain skills and if it&#39;s a low level character you gain few RP. For instance Eluvie Cariele must spend 10 of her perhaps 15 skill points on two skills, so that she can get RP from her holdings.

Reading over the Magician, then there&#39;s nothing in the description that states that it can&#39;t be a blooded human. Learning lesser magic is just not encouraged, when you have the gift to cast true magic. Kalilah Sun-Eyes is a blooded Magician and proof that a blooded character can achieve the class.

[irdeggman]

Only blooded humans and those with elven blood (½-elves and elves) can cast true magic. This should be carried over, since I feel it means a lot to the setting, as it limits the amounts of Wizards running around. There were no sorcerers, since sorcerers in general doesn&#39;t fit the setting, except perhaps there may be some elven sorcerers. Controlling magic in Cerilia is difficult.

I absolutely disagree with this. The BR restriction was in order to be a wizard (greater magic) a character had to be blooded or have elven blood. The only reason the other races were eliminated was because the cores rules didn&#39;t alow them to be magic users (that was the point I was making and only gnome in the core rules could bypass this one). And the issue about who can and can&#39;t be a wizard has already been decided for the BRCS - the chapter was sanctioned except for the noble class and skills, feats and equipment already. The BRCS does say that the other races (halfling and dwarves) have very few arcane casters.


I agree that multiclass rules have changed and that things should get adjusted to fit. Perhaps add the classes together and then dividing by the number of classes. For instance Fighters gather 100% province and 100% law, while Cleric collect 100% province, 50% law, 100% temple. Then add those two together to 200% province, 150% law and 100% temple and divide it by two: 100% province, 75% law, 50% temple? Then it wouldn&#39;t really matter with skills, something which I feel forces people to focus on certain skills and if it&#39;s a low level character you gain few RP. For instance Eluvie Cariele must spend 10 of her perhaps 15 skill points on two skills, so that she can get RP from her holdings.

IIRC there was already a poll on whether or not RP collection should be tied into skills or classes and skills won. Regardless this discussion isn&#39;t really appropriate for this thread since it is supposed to be about a specific prestige class and just sort of spread into covering the council itself.

[irdeggman]

Only blooded humans and those with elven blood (½-elves and elves) can cast true magic. This should be carried over, since I feel it means a lot to the setting, as it limits the amounts of Wizards running around. There were no sorcerers, since sorcerers in general doesn&#39;t fit the setting, except perhaps there may be some elven sorcerers. Controlling magic in Cerilia is difficult.

I absolutely disagree with this. The BR restriction was in order to be a wizard (greater magic) a character had to be blooded or have elven blood. The only reason the other races were eliminated was because the cores rules didn&#39;t alow them to be magic users (that was the point I was making and only gnome in the core rules could bypass this one). And the issue about who can and can&#39;t be a wizard has already been decided for the BRCS - the chapter was sanctioned except for the noble class and skills, feats and equipment already. The BRCS does say that the other races (halfling and dwarves) have very few arcane casters.


I agree that multiclass rules have changed and that things should get adjusted to fit. Perhaps add the classes together and then dividing by the number of classes. For instance Fighters gather 100% province and 100% law, while Cleric collect 100% province, 50% law, 100% temple. Then add those two together to 200% province, 150% law and 100% temple and divide it by two: 100% province, 75% law, 50% temple? Then it wouldn&#39;t really matter with skills, something which I feel forces people to focus on certain skills and if it&#39;s a low level character you gain few RP. For instance Eluvie Cariele must spend 10 of her perhaps 15 skill points on two skills, so that she can get RP from her holdings.

IIRC there was already a poll on whether or not RP collection should be tied into skills or classes and skills won. Regardless this discussion isn&#39;t really appropriate for this thread since it is supposed to be about a specific prestige class and just sort of spread into covering the council itself.

[Raesene Andu]

Originally posted by Angelbialaska@Feb 6 2005, 12:28 AM
I&#39;ve got some stuff written about the College of Sorcery, but I don&#39;t know how to upload it.
If it is a word of pdf document that you would like attached to a message, I can do that for you, please e-mail it to hoss@chariot.net.au and I&#39;ll do it as soon as I get it.

You can just cut and paste the information into a post though and I&#39;ll then cut and paste it into the Atlas document :)

[The incredible, edible Phil]

Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Feb 4 2005, 09:47 PM
I don&#39;t think any wizard who is currently a regent in his own right would sit on the council of the college of sorcery. That would make it a political body, like the Imperial Senate, rather than a council of wizard dealing primarily with the college itself and with monitoring magic in the Imperial City.

I would prefer to see the college council as the highest ranking staff members/teachers in the college. Most likely they are the only ones available for teaching, as given the small number of true wizards around, there isn&#39;t going to be a lot of skilled wizards available as teachers at the college.

Also, remember that the college does teach both magicians and true wizards, and in fact a good number of their members are likely magicians rather than wizards.
Which is why I suggested that ranks in the College be given at the progression of the PrC. Only those truly devoted to the College of Sorcery will attain any significant official rank within its halls. However, nothing stops Caine, HMA, etc to becoming honorary members or working with the College.