Birthright Provincialborders

[Jan P. M. Arnoldus]

Here I am again. This time I had a question about the provincial
borders. In Holland there has lately been a discussion about a
restructuring of the provincial borders. It's main concern was the
construction of city provinces and rural provinces. If you look at
birghtright one could also ask some questions in this fashion.
Should a player character be allowed to divide his province in two
or more different provinces?
When he did this he probably would collect more population regency
points (a 3 province wih 10.000pop becomes two 2 provinces with
5.000pop) and it would be possible to collect more magic regency
since the source rating could become higher.
The rulebook says that the regency is collected due to a tie between
the regent and the land and its people.
You could say that the mebhaighl that infuses the land also
demarcates the boundries of the different provinces, which boundries
would therefore be almost immutable.
Any thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Jan Anoldus 080768ja@student.eur.nl
************************************************** ******************
Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and
the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on
the winds of time.
(Charal Drianaan te Calamon, The Cycle of the Dragon)

[swords]

At 01:46 PM 3/12/97 -0800, you wrote:

>When he did this he probably would collect more population regency
>points (a 3 province wih 10.000pop becomes two 2 provinces with
>5.000pop) and it would be possible to collect more magic regency
>since the source rating could become higher.

No the province rating would still be equal to what had been in place
before. The tax and all other holding would be split between the two in
equal portions. The main good thing would be that now the regent would have
an additional province that he could build up and fortify to gain more money
and regency.

>You could say that the mebhaighl that infuses the land also
>demarcates the boundries of the different provinces, which boundries
>would therefore be almost immutable.

The land is still the same land so the mebhaighl would be split because you
only have access to a certain amount of magic in a given area. But in the
same token it could be allowed to build back up to its potential for that area.

Michael

[swords]

>So you claim that if I have a 7/x province which I divide into seven
>different provinces that I then will have seven 7/* provinces. This seems
>to me to be absurd. As I see it the rating of the province should be
>divieded as the population is divieded over the new provinces.
>My remark about the mebhaighl demarcating the boundry of the provinces
>and thus making them immutable was made to make it more realistic that
>the provinces have maxpopulation rate tied to the terrain and not the
>size of the province.
>As I said earlier, when you split an existing province into parts it
>should be impossible that each part of the original province can be ruled
>up to the same maximum as the original one.
>At least in this setting.
>If the players came up with highrises, intensive bio-industry and other
>innovations I might allow something.

Looks like I typed that badly. I'll try to write it a bit clearer.
The way I play you could divide a provice only when it was at 4/* or better
and it would then be 2/* and 2/*. With your 7/* it would become a 4/* and a
3/*. You could still have a large population in the same area even if it
was the stonecrown mountains. You would just have to work harder at it, for
my PC's I would make the expense more. The cost to rule up a mountain
province being like twice or three times as difficult, the reason being that
you have to convince people to live there. If they have dense forest you
cut back the forest for housing space, Swamps would have to be drained,
mountains terraced similar to what the Inca's did in the Andies Mountains.

Michael

[cbalow@cannet.co]

>Looks like I typed that badly. I'll try to write it a bit clearer.
>The way I play you could divide a provice only when it was at 4/* or better
>and it would then be 2/* and 2/*. With your 7/* it would become a 4/* and a
>3/*. You could still have a large population in the same area even if it
>was the stonecrown mountains. You would just have to work harder at it, for
>my PC's I would make the expense more. The cost to rule up a mountain
>province being like twice or three times as difficult, the reason being that
>you have to convince people to live there. If they have dense forest you
>cut back the forest for housing space, Swamps would have to be drained,
>mountains terraced similar to what the Inca's did in the Andies Mountains.
>
>Michael
>

Hi, this is the first time I've put up a post here. I've been thinking about
this subject myself recently. I think it important to look at the one
example(that I know of) of what may be province splitting in the book, The
city of Anuire. Perhaps it might be conceivable to split a province once it
reaches a very large population(like a 9 or 10 rating). You would then split
it into a large city much like Anuire, making sure to split the province so
that you are left with a large city and a rural province( a 10 might go into
a 7 and a 3) Citys would no doubt have no magic source to them, and the
country side would be able to eventually recover its magic(if appropriate).
Perhaps using a form of investiture to effect a change in a province would
be interesting. I would be in favor of limiting this to happening once in a
province.
I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about this idea.

Chris

[Jan P. M. Arnoldus]

Okay guys, I'm sorry for the flippant address in my first message, the
trouble was that I had just sent another message introducing myself. This
message didn't get through somehow.

On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, Michael wrote:

> At 01:46 PM 3/12/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >When he did this he probably would collect more population regency
> >points (a 3 province wih 10.000pop becomes two 2 provinces with
> >5.000pop) and it would be possible to collect more magic regency
> >since the source rating could become higher.
>
> No the province rating would still be equal to what had been in place
> before. The tax and all other holding would be split between the two in
> equal portions. The main good thing would be that now the regent would have
> an additional province that he could build up and fortify to gain more money
> and regency.
>
> >You could say that the mebhaighl that infuses the land also
> >demarcates the boundries of the different provinces, which boundries
> >would therefore be almost immutable.
>
> The land is still the same land so the mebhaighl would be split because you
> only have access to a certain amount of magic in a given area. But in the
> same token it could be allowed to build back up to its potential for that area.
>
> Michael
So you claim that if I have a 7/x province which I divide into seven
different provinces that I then will have seven 7/* provinces. This seems
to me to be absurd. As I see it the rating of the province should be
divieded as the population is divieded over the new provinces.
My remark about the mebhaighl demarcating the boundry of the provinces
and thus making them immutable was made to make it more realistic that
the provinces have maxpopulation rate tied to the terrain and not the
size of the province.
As I said earlier, when you split an existing province into parts it
should be impossible that each part of the original province can be ruled
up to the same maximum as the original one.
At least in this setting.
If the players came up with highrises, intensive bio-industry and other
innovations I might allow something.

Greetings Jan Arnoldus 080768ja@student.eur.nl
************************************************** **********************
O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born
of the mountain, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come.
(Charal Drianaan te Calamon, the Cycle of the Dragon)

[TSRRich@aol.co]

In a message dated 97-03-13 19:43:16 EST, you write:

>>Looks like I typed that badly. I'll try to write it a bit clearer.
>>The way I play you could divide a provice only when it was at 4/* or better
>>and it would then be 2/* and 2/*. With your 7/* it would become a 4/* and
a
>>3/*. You could still have a large population in the same area even if it
>>was the stonecrown mountains. You would just have to work harder at it,
for
>>my PC's I would make the expense more. The cost to rule up a mountain
>>province being like twice or three times as difficult, the reason being
that
>>you have to convince people to live there. If they have dense forest you
>>cut back the forest for housing space, Swamps would have to be drained,
>>mountains terraced similar to what the Inca's did in the Andies Mountains.
>>
>>Michael

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about this topic in the BR Rules Book,
so if you want a shoot-from-the-hip answer, here's my read on the subject.
Total up the source potential and province level--this is the number that
must be allocated. You couldn't take a 7/0 and make it into seven 1/6
provinces...this would take 7 points worth of potential and multiply it into
42 points. However, I might consider it reasonable to divvy that 7/0 into a
5/0 and a 1/1, for the city and countryside. You still have 7 points of
"stuff", so you didn't make magical potential appear out of nowhere--you had
to take it on the chin in the total province level to pull this off. I'd also
say that /any/ regent with a holding in the province to be divided can block
the division, unless his holding is contested.

Keep in mind, ruling lots of little territories instead of one big one is
extremely inefficient from the domain maintenance standpoint. The only real
advantage to splitting provinces this way would be to provide more
territories for an enemy to have to traverse or occupy in an invasion.

Rich Baker
Birthright Designer