Dea 2

[verruchter@menagerie.ne]

(Continued from previous message)
>Sun and Planescape).

I think all the various new campaign worlds were good ideas.

>TSR's target audience was, what, 12-16 year olds? Well, that was a
>few years ago. Those 12-16 year olds are now graduating and getting
>on with thier lives....they don't have the time for playing games.
>TSR seemed to be concentrating on what the market wanted NOW.

Like all companies do.

>Instant gratification...without the effort.

You obviously don't work at TSR.

> Basically, they 'Monty Hauled' themselves into a hole. They
>treated what they were making as a GAME in stead of a HOBBY. Gennerally,

Hmmm, let me look at my 1st Edition books...yep there it is Role
Playing GAME. I don't see the word hobby anywhere.

>people stick with a hobby, but they don't stick with a game for
>decades...(just my observation).

I have.

> I hope that WotC starts to treat AD&D as a hobby again; get some full
>time players to work for them and get them to 'submit' there personal
>campaign adventures for publication. That way we know that the writers
>actually cared about what they wrote (for the TSR BR writers on the list,
>please don't take this as an affront.

Yeah Rich Baker obviously didn't care. He only turned a manuscript that
was sitting under his bed collecting dust into one of the best
campaigns ever.

Verrucht

* 1st 2.00 #9097 * Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

[Paul Ming]

- ----------
> From: verruchter@menagerie.net
> To: birthright@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Dea 2
> Date: Friday, April 11, 1997 8:30 AM
>
> And I really do like Birthright (and the concept behind Dark
> Sun and Planescape).
>
> I think all the various new campaign worlds were good ideas.
>
> >TSR's target audience was, what, 12-16 year olds? Well, that was a
> >few years ago. Those 12-16 year olds are now graduating and getting
> >on with thier lives....they don't have the time for playing games.
> >TSR seemed to be concentrating on what the market wanted NOW.
>
> Like all companies do.

Yes, but it seemed that they were in too much of a hurry. I don't know
how to explain it. It just seemed, well, sort of 'cheap'. Overall. Some
was VERY well done.
>
> >Instant gratification...without the effort.
>
> You obviously don't work at TSR.

Nope, but I wanted to....until they kept twisting the knife in my back (I
just felt---like many other 1st ed'ers and Greyhawkers---'betrayed'. I
know it is silly to think of AD&D this way, but, well, I just did/do. When
someone says the AD&D 1st sucks, I take it as a personal attack in a sense.
I would have done anything to work with Gary and Dave, and everyone else
who used to work there. Then She-Who-Should-Not-Be-Named took over, and
there started the decline of my respect for TSR. Sorry).
>
> > Basically, they 'Monty Hauled' themselves into a hole. They
> >treated what they were making as a GAME in stead of a HOBBY. Gennerally,
>
> Hmmm, let me look at my 1st Edition books...yep there it is Role
> Playing GAME. I don't see the word hobby anywhere.

I think you are taking it a little too literally. I didn't want to
explain exactly what I think the difference between 1st and 2nd editions
what would surely be an esotric way, and this post is too long as it is, so
I won't do it here. I thought that people would be able to see the
difference between a game that you play every now and then and a hobby that
you spend loving hours developing stuff for. That is what I was trying to
get at. When a person spends $1000 on a bunch of hockey cards 'just to see
what they are like' he is called a fool; but if he collects hockey cards as
a hobby, and spends $1000 he is called a collector.
>
> >people stick with a hobby, but they don't stick with a game for
> >decades...(just my observation).
>
> I have.

Then I would classify you as a D&D hobbiest, not a fly-bye-night gamer. I
bet you take great pride in your campaign and characters. I would gather
that you really enjoy talking about the cool ideas and adventures you have
come up with. I am the same way. I am proud of the things I have created.
What I was saying is that most of the material that TSR used to produce
(IMO) didn't foster the notion of creation. Hard to explain. Birthright
is the only thing I have seen in a LONG time form tem that I think does
this (fosters creativity and pride in your creations; If you don't believe
me, just look at the amount of ideas and energy floating around this
mailing list---and compare it with rec.games.frp.dnd).


>
> > I hope that WotC starts to treat AD&D as a hobby again; get some
full
> >time players to work for them and get them to 'submit' there personal
> >campaign adventures for publication. That way we know that the writers
> >actually cared about what they wrote (for the TSR BR writers on the
list,
> >please don't take this as an affront.
>
> Yeah Rich Baker obviously didn't care. He only turned a manuscript that
> was sitting under his bed collecting dust into one of the best
> campaigns ever.

As I said earlier, I excluded the Birthright folks from this criticism.
The crew that is/did work on BR is top notch. They put blood sweat and
tears into the products, and it shows. I hope they get to keep up the
good work. (If they are reading this, I would like to suggest some more
'locale adventures'. Ones that don't have really anything to do with any
polotics. If the DM wants to add polotics, he can. If he just wants an
adventure, for a few hours of mindless, down-home rough-and-tumble, mayhem,
he has one).
>
> Verrucht
>
> * 1st 2.00 #9097 * Hope for the best, plan for the worst.


See ya later! :)

Paul "Yukon King" Ming
********************
****Ming Designs****
********************
pming@klondike.com
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/4383/

"This is gonna take Cracker-Jack timing, Wang."
---Jack Burton, Big Trouble in Little China.