Sub-Races

[Undertaker]

Greetings,
As far as I can tell BR does not have any of the standard sub-Races of
Demihumans(Drow, Derro, etc.). I know this is because each of the standard
Demihuman races has been modified to be unique to BR. But several of my PCs
have started asking about running a Cerilian Drow, and such. For the time I
have said no, but knowing my Players this will not stop them from asking
again. So I have been thinking that prehaps there could be a way to make
Cerilian versions of these sub-Races. Of course they would be extremly rare,
prehaps even unique themselves. What I'm wondering is what everyone thinks
about the idea, and if you were going to do this what ablities should they
have, and what shouldn't they have? I'm reffering to any and all sub-Races
not just Drow. I don't want to create a race that unbalances the game
setting, as I'm sure they weren't included in the first place just for this
reason.

Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

[Trevor Romkey]

At 06:30 PM 20/05/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>As far as I can tell BR does not have any of the standard sub-Races of
>Demihumans(Drow, Derro, etc.). I know this is because each of the standard
>Demihuman races has been modified to be unique to BR. But several of my PCs
>have started asking about running a Cerilian Drow, and such. For the time I
>have said no, but knowing my Players this will not stop them from asking
>again. So I have been thinking that prehaps there could be a way to make
>Cerilian versions of these sub-Races. Of course they would be extremly rare,
>prehaps even unique themselves. What I'm wondering is what everyone thinks
>about the idea, and if you were going to do this what ablities should they
>have, and what shouldn't they have? I'm reffering to any and all sub-Races
>not just Drow. I don't want to create a race that unbalances the game
>setting, as I'm sure they weren't included in the first place just for this
>reason.
>
>Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
>
Well there is mention of an Underdark city of Elves, in the module Warlock
of the Stonecrowns, this city, Amantyr, is said to be the final retreat for
the Azrai allied elves. It wouldn't be much of a streatch to have them
corrupted by Azrai's influence( or some such thing...) and given Drow stats...

[Trevor Romkey]

At 06:30 PM 20/05/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>As far as I can tell BR does not have any of the standard sub-Races of
>Demihumans(Drow, Derro, etc.). I know this is because each of the standard
>Demihuman races has been modified to be unique to BR. But several of my PCs
>have started asking about running a Cerilian Drow, and such. For the time I
>have said no, but knowing my Players this will not stop them from asking
>again. So I have been thinking that prehaps there could be a way to make
>Cerilian versions of these sub-Races. Of course they would be extremly rare,
>prehaps even unique themselves. What I'm wondering is what everyone thinks
>about the idea, and if you were going to do this what ablities should they
>have, and what shouldn't they have? I'm reffering to any and all sub-Races
>not just Drow. I don't want to create a race that unbalances the game
>setting, as I'm sure they weren't included in the first place just for this
>reason.
>
>Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
>
Well there is mention of an Underdark city of Elves, in the module Warlock
of the Stonecrowns, this city, Amantyr, is said to be the final retreat for
the Azrai allied elves. It wouldn't be much of a streatch to have them
corrupted by Azrai's influence( or some such thing...) and given Drow stats...

[Brian Stoner]

At 06:30 PM 5/20/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>As far as I can tell BR does not have any of the standard sub-Races of
>Demihumans(Drow, Derro, etc.). I know this is because each of the standard
>Demihuman races has been modified to be unique to BR. But several of my PCs
>have started asking about running a Cerilian Drow, and such. For the time I
>have said no, but knowing my Players this will not stop them from asking
>again. So I have been thinking that prehaps there could be a way to make
>Cerilian versions of these sub-Races. Of course they would be extremly rare,
>prehaps even unique themselves. What I'm wondering is what everyone thinks
>about the idea, and if you were going to do this what ablities should they
>have, and what shouldn't they have? I'm reffering to any and all sub-Races
>not just Drow. I don't want to create a race that unbalances the game
>setting, as I'm sure they weren't included in the first place just for this
>reason.
>
>Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
>

Although we have not done much with it, my players and I have discussed how
the Manslayer and his followers resemble the Drow. Certainly they have not
yet developed into full Drow. Perhaps they are "proto-Drow". And, given
enough time, they will develop into Drow. Other than that, however, we have
not discussed much about sub-Races.

- -Brian

[Krazy Kat]

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Undertaker wrote:

> As far as I can tell BR does not have any of the standard sub-Races of
> Demihumans(Drow, Derro, etc.). I know this is because each of the standard
> Demihuman races has been modified to be unique to BR. But several of my PCs
> have started asking about running a Cerilian Drow, and such.

Unless you already have somthing in the works about Aduria, you could very
easily say that the characters are outcasts from there. They obviouly
wouldn't be regents, but they could be scions.
- -Ken

[Trevor Romkey]

At 06:30 PM 20/05/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>As far as I can tell BR does not have any of the standard sub-Races of
>Demihumans(Drow, Derro, etc.). I know this is because each of the standard
>Demihuman races has been modified to be unique to BR. But several of my PCs
>have started asking about running a Cerilian Drow, and such. For the time I
>have said no, but knowing my Players this will not stop them from asking
>again. So I have been thinking that prehaps there could be a way to make
>Cerilian versions of these sub-Races. Of course they would be extremly rare,
>prehaps even unique themselves. What I'm wondering is what everyone thinks
>about the idea, and if you were going to do this what ablities should they
>have, and what shouldn't they have? I'm reffering to any and all sub-Races
>not just Drow. I don't want to create a race that unbalances the game
>setting, as I'm sure they weren't included in the first place just for this
>reason.
>
>Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
>
Well there is mention of an Underdark city of Elves, in the module Warlock
of the Stonecrowns, this city, Amantyr, is said to be the final retreat for
the Azrai allied elves. It wouldn't be much of a streatch to have them
corrupted by Azrai's influence( or some such thing...) and given Drow stats...

[David Sean Brown]

> Firstly, I know you asked for general opinions, but I'll focus on the
> Drow as this question has appeared in my campaign a lot as well. This
> was my solution.
>
> The Drow are probably the most difficult of the Sub-Races to import to
> Cerilia due to the Highly Religious nature of their Society/Cretion.
> Without the conflict between Corellon and Llolth (Elven Gods), there
> would have been no schism amongst the elves and thus the Llolth faction
> would not have gone underground and become Drow.
> Having Said that, it is "possible" that when Humans first came to
> Cerilia and into conflict with the Elves, that a large group of elves
> were cut off from their bretheren and surrounded by Humans. With no
> place else to go, they were forced to retreat underground for safety.
> The tribe found refuge in a great cavern deep below the Stonecrown
> Mountains and settled it. Unknown to the elves at first, the cavern
> emanated strange energies that went to work altering the elves. Now, a
> mere few generations later, the tribe is unrecognisable, their skin has
> turned jet black and their hair snow white. Some of the most recently
> born Drow - as they are now calling themselves - have begun to exhibit
> strange powers.
> One of my players chose to play a young Proto-Drow who decided to see
> what was happening on the surface and if the hated Hu-Mans were still
> around. As the Proto-Drow were still evolving, they could only use their
> lowest level innate ability (I don't have the book here & honestly can't
> remember what it is).
> The same sort of thing could be done to Dwarves driven far underground
> by Orog Hordes, etc allowing you to create Derro or Duergar. This could
> probably work with other races as well if you wanrted.

To be honest, I had thought about this too, and sort of came to the
conclusion that there really weren't any sub-races among the demi-humans
of Cerilia. I couldn't find anything in the histories to warrent any sort
of division among the elves, dwarves, etc that would result in the
formation of a new race similar to the Drow or the Derro. I did start
thinking that there may be somthing similar to what has happened to the
humans, with geographicla area influencing the lifestyles (this may result
in different modifiers to stats, and a different way of behaving but the
basic abilities would remain the same.).

Anyway, just wanted to toss my hat in the ring on the subject.

Sean

[cmurphy@staterail.nsw.go]

Undertaker wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> As far as I can tell BR does not have any of the standard sub-Races of
> Demihumans(Drow, Derro, etc.). I know this is because each of the standard
> Demihuman races has been modified to be unique to BR. But several of my PCs
> have started asking about running a Cerilian Drow, and such. For the time I
> have said no, but knowing my Players this will not stop them from asking
> again. So I have been thinking that prehaps there could be a way to make
> Cerilian versions of these sub-Races. Of course they would be extremly rare,
> prehaps even unique themselves. What I'm wondering is what everyone thinks
> about the idea, and if you were going to do this what ablities should they
> have, and what shouldn't they have? I'm reffering to any and all sub-Races
> not just Drow. I don't want to create a race that unbalances the game
> setting, as I'm sure they weren't included in the first place just for this
> reason.
>
> Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
>
> "War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
> the province of life or death;
> the road to survival or ruin.
> It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
> -Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > Firstly, I know you asked for general opinions, but I'll focus on the
Drow as this question has appeared in my campaign a lot as well. This
was my solution.

The Drow are probably the most difficult of the Sub-Races to import to
Cerilia due to the Highly Religious nature of their Society/Cretion.
Without the conflict between Corellon and Llolth (Elven Gods), there
would have been no schism amongst the elves and thus the Llolth faction
would not have gone underground and become Drow.
Having Said that, it is "possible" that when Humans first came to
Cerilia and into conflict with the Elves, that a large group of elves
were cut off from their bretheren and surrounded by Humans. With no
place else to go, they were forced to retreat underground for safety.
The tribe found refuge in a great cavern deep below the Stonecrown
Mountains and settled it. Unknown to the elves at first, the cavern
emanated strange energies that went to work altering the elves. Now, a
mere few generations later, the tribe is unrecognisable, their skin has
turned jet black and their hair snow white. Some of the most recently
born Drow - as they are now calling themselves - have begun to exhibit
strange powers.
One of my players chose to play a young Proto-Drow who decided to see
what was happening on the surface and if the hated Hu-Mans were still
around. As the Proto-Drow were still evolving, they could only use their
lowest level innate ability (I don't have the book here & honestly can't
remember what it is).
The same sort of thing could be done to Dwarves driven far underground
by Orog Hordes, etc allowing you to create Derro or Duergar. This could
probably work with other races as well if you wanrted.

Hope it helps.

[Matthew M. Colville]

>Well there is mention of an Underdark city of Elves, in the module Warlock
>of the Stonecrowns, this city, Amantyr, is said to be the final retreat for
>the Azrai allied elves. It wouldn't be much of a streatch to have them
>corrupted by Azrai's influence( or some such thing...) and given Drow stats...

In my Birthright Campaign, the players have themselves decided,
from my description, the the elves that work for Rhobhe Manslayer are,
essentially, Drow in temperment and motivation. This is, I think, a fairly
accurate interpretation.

[Undertaker]

At 07:29 AM 5/23/97 -0700, Chrys Murphy(cmurphy@staterail.nsw.gov.au)wrote:
>

>
>One of my players chose to play a young Proto-Drow who decided to see
>what was happening on the surface and if the hated Hu-Mans were still
>around. As the Proto-Drow were still evolving, they could only use their
>lowest level innate ability (I don't have the book here & honestly can't
>remember what it is).
>The same sort of thing could be done to Dwarves driven far underground
>by Orog Hordes, etc allowing you to create Derro or Duergar. This could
>probably work with other races as well if you wanrted.
>

There have been a lot of good suggestions concerning the reasoning behind(or
against)Demihuman sub-races. But in order to include them they must be
different from the standard Demihuman race. Thier abilities are what worry
me. Standard races have been toned down in BR, so its only resonable that
the sub-races will be to. What abilities should they have that are different
from the norm? Or maybe they should just look different and have the same
abilities. If the sub-races are included as they are written for standard
AD&D they will greatly unbalance the game.

Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net

"War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
the province of life or death;
the road to survival or ruin.
It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
-Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-

[cmurphy@staterail.nsw.go]

Undertaker wrote:
>
> At 07:29 AM 5/23/97 -0700, Chrys Murphy(cmurphy@staterail.nsw.gov.au)wrote:
> >
>
> >
> >One of my players chose to play a young Proto-Drow who decided to see
> >what was happening on the surface and if the hated Hu-Mans were still
> >around. As the Proto-Drow were still evolving, they could only use their
> >lowest level innate ability (I don't have the book here & honestly can't
> >remember what it is).
> >The same sort of thing could be done to Dwarves driven far underground
> >by Orog Hordes, etc allowing you to create Derro or Duergar. This could
> >probably work with other races as well if you wanrted.
> >
>
> There have been a lot of good suggestions concerning the reasoning behind(or
> against)Demihuman sub-races. But in order to include them they must be
> different from the standard Demihuman race. Thier abilities are what worry
> me. Standard races have been toned down in BR, so its only resonable that
> the sub-races will be to. What abilities should they have that are different
> from the norm? Or maybe they should just look different and have the same
> abilities. If the sub-races are included as they are written for standard
> AD&D they will greatly unbalance the game.
>
> Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
>
> "War is a matter of vital importance to the State;
> the province of life or death;
> the road to survival or ruin.
> It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied."
> -Sun Tzu,(The Art of War)-
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
That's what I tried to do with the Proto-Drow, they essentially look
like normal elves, albeit paler due to lack of sunlight. As for power
changes, they can only create the darkness sphere - as a defense against
strong light which hurts their now sensitive eyes.
Also, due to the hardships suffered, the society is doesn't operate
along Matriarchal OR Patriarchal lines. Power resides with the best
Warrior/Hunters of each "Clan" as they are directly responsible for the
survival of the community. Also, the Proto-Drow are NOT EVIL. Their
society is as close to a normal Elven culture as their
location/predicament can be. The Players themselves came up with the
Proto-Drow name, the "Proto-Drow" call themselves The Forsaken as they
feel their Elven Kin left them to the mercy of the Humans.