What happens if...

[dsbrown@is2.dal.c]

> I don't know if the original intention of the message was
> understood. We all know (more or less) what happens when
> a regent is killed by another... What happens in the following
> case?
>
> The regent, last of his line with no heirs, is out horse riding
> when he falls and breaks his neck.
>
> *Now* what happens?

Well, I would think it would be exactly as if he had been killed by
bloodtheft, except his RPs go unclaimed. his kingdom falls into
anarchy until someone can claim it and be invested with the
holdings.

Sean

[Nadastor]

Emanuel.Matos@space.gc.ca wrote:
>
> I don't know if the original intention of the message was
> understood. We all know (more or less) what happens when
> a regent is killed by another... What happens in the following
> case?
>
> The regent, last of his line with no heirs, is out horse riding
> when he falls and breaks his neck.
>
> *Now* what happens?
>
> Emanuel Matos

Nothing more nothing less than what happened when Michael Roele died.
I thought about this after posting the question and reading the answer, it's the case of
the dead of the last in his line, yes, Michael was killed by the Gorgon, but we know
that he manage to lose all his blood power and, we can assume, recency power, before the
Gorgon can kill him.

So the answer is : all blood points are lost, all recency points are lost, and his
domain go into chaos. If it's a holding domain, well, we can manage these holding making
them 0 level, if a realm we can enjoy the throne war that surely will follow, like so
many times in history and in Cerilia's history too.
So, the Dm can make some domain from the dismembrance of the first and maybe he can
chose one or two pretendent who claim the vacant throne. It can become, like someone
already said, a great scenario.

- --
Nadastor, Wizard of the Black Robes
"The strength of a man is not in his hands, but in his eyes !
His life is not into his body, but into his mind !
The world is not around him, but is in him !"

[Brian Stoner]

At 08:29 AM 5/29/97 EDT, you wrote:
>I don't know if the original intention of the message was
>understood. We all know (more or less) what happens when
>a regent is killed by another... What happens in the following
>case?
>
>The regent, last of his line with no heirs, is out horse riding
>when he falls and breaks his neck.
>
>*Now* what happens?
>
>Emanuel Matos

Perhaps a civil war. When no one is sure who should rule the throne, maybe
the minor nobles will fight over it. All accumulated regency points are
lost and all holdings are contested. Then anyone who is interested can try
to lay claim. Usually this would include the use of regency points. But in
this case some other system should be used (since many of those fighting
won't have RPs). Perhaps the RPs from the dead regent should be distributed
amongst the minor nobles so they have something to fight with. Of course
those with more political power would get more than those with less. Those
who already have RPs should have a better chance of getting what they want,
but those without should still have a chance. I don't have a precise
system. Does any one else?

[Robert Ripley]

Emanuel.Matos@space.gc.ca wrote:

> I don't know if the original intention of the message was
> understood. We all know (more or less) what happens when
> a regent is killed by another... What happens in the following
> case?
>
> The regent, last of his line with no heirs, is out horse riding
> when he falls and breaks his neck.
>
> *Now* what happens?

His domain become uncontrolled. Provinces are considered Poor loyalty
and open to the first regent who successfully contests them. Guilds,
Temples and Sources simply disappear.

> Emanuel Matos
> Technical Support - Ottawa
> Canadian Space Agency
> Tel. (613) 990-6224
> Fax. (613) 993-6103
> E-mail: Emanuel.Matos@space.gc.ca
>
> *** Visit our website ***
> *** www.space.gc.ca ***
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> line
>

- --

Bob R.

************************************************** *****************************

PBeM- Birthright, Regents of the Southern Marches
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/index.html
bobripley@earthlink.net
************************************************** *****************************

[Robert Ripley]

Cec Stacey wrote:

> >
> > Yes, it's right for most regents, the first thing they do as regents
> is
> to appoint an
> > heir, but not only the non-intelligent ones, also the "I'm
> unvincible"
> ones.
> > But i have another question: are we saying that Michael was a
> foolish guy
> ? Why he
> > didn't chose an heir ?
> > --
> I think that he didn't choose an heir because of an unfortunate
> combination
> of blood abilities (Iron will, courage, divine aura, etc...),
> upbringing,
> and a general sence of invincibility, as you mentioned above. But as
> well,
> he didn't have the chance to have a child, with his early years of
> rule
> being so filled with war. And, as emperor, who can you trust to rule
> when
> you pass on? Wouldn't that be the ultimate temptation?

I disagree, I think Michael's heir was Aedan Dosiere. He held the Empire
together until he himself "passed away." I think that Aedan did not
have an heir or if he did it didn't matter anyways as the Barons and
Dukes had already divested their lands away.
- --

Bob R.

************************************************** *****************************

PBeM- Birthright, Regents of the Southern Marches
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/index.html
bobripley@earthlink.net
************************************************** *****************************

[Pan]

> I disagree, I think Michael's heir was Aedan Dosiere. He held the Empire
> together until he himself "passed away." I think that Aedan did not
> have an heir or if he did it didn't matter anyways as the Barons and
> Dukes had already divested their lands away.
> --
>
> Bob R.
>
In the book the 'Iron Throne', Michael's wife died during child birth.
She gave birth to an abomination through treachery from the Gorgon.
Michael never remarried and died trying to kill the Gorgon for the act.

As far as Aedan Dosiere goes, he did leave descendants.
In the book 'War', the offspring from Aedan and the elven woman
Sylvanna, Gannd Aurealis, travels in search of an identity.
Also, Aedan's heir, Lord Davan Dosiere was the current high
chamberlain for the Royal City of Anuire after Aedans death.
Bob V.

[Robert Ripley]

Pan wrote:

> > I disagree, I think Michael's heir was Aedan Dosiere. He held the
> Empire
> > together until he himself "passed away." I think that Aedan did not
>
> > have an heir or if he did it didn't matter anyways as the Barons and
>
> > Dukes had already divested their lands away.
> > --
> >
> > Bob R.
> >
> In the book the 'Iron Throne', Michael's wife died during child birth.
>
> She gave birth to an abomination through treachery from the Gorgon.
> Michael never remarried and died trying to kill the Gorgon for the
> act.
>
> As far as Aedan Dosiere goes, he did leave descendants.
> In the book 'War', the offspring from Aedan and the elven woman
> Sylvanna, Gannd Aurealis, travels in search of an identity.
> Also, Aedan's heir, Lord Davan Dosiere was the current high
> chamberlain for the Royal City of Anuire after Aedans death.
> Bob V.

No I mean Birthright "heir" not just a kid you leave your estate to
butsomeone you invest upon you r death.

I think Michael invested the Empire to Aedan as he died. Which is
delaring
an heir in game terms.

- --

Bob R.

************************************************** *****************************

PBeM- Birthright, Regents of the Southern Marches
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobripley/index.html
bobripley@earthlink.net
************************************************** *****************************

[Bresser, R.T.]

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> Robert Ripley wrote:
> >
> > Pan wrote:
> >
> > > > I disagree, I think Michael's heir was Aedan Dosiere. He held the
> > > Empire
> > > > together until he himself "passed away." I think that Aedan did n=
ot
> > >
> > > > have an heir or if he did it didn't matter anyways as the Barons a=
nd
> > >
> > > > Dukes had already divested their lands away.
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Bob R.
> > > >
> > > In the book the 'Iron Throne', Michael's wife died during child birt=
h.
> > >
> > > She gave birth to an abomination through treachery from the Gorgon.
> > > Michael never remarried and died trying to kill the Gorgon for the
> > > act.
> > >
> > > As far as Aedan Dosiere goes, he did leave descendants.
> > > In the book 'War', the offspring from Aedan and the elven woman
> > > Sylvanna, Gannd Aurealis, travels in search of an identity.
> > > Also, Aedan's heir, Lord Davan Dosiere was the current high
> > > chamberlain for the Royal City of Anuire after Aedans death.
> > > Bob V.
> >
> > No I mean Birthright "heir" not just a kid you leave your estate to
> > butsomeone you invest upon you r death.
> >
> > I think Michael invested the Empire to Aedan as he died. Which is
> > delaring
> > an heir in game terms.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Bob R.
> >
>
> I wondered if this can be true. It was easy to check. Aedan Dosiere left=
his domain to
> his heir, and we know that there was one cause the line exist until now.=
If Michael
> invested Aedan Dosiere as heir now, with all dukies and baronies go indi=
pendent, all
> that remain to Aedan was the Imperial City of Anuire. Know there's a Dos=
iere, and he's a
> regent, he have the Dosiere domain, that consist of a law 3 holding, pro=
blably created
> by Aedan to control the city, cause we can think that before all law hol=
ding in the city
> belonged to the emperor. Now, if Michael invested Aedan the Dosiere woul=
d have the city,
> to say, the Dosiere would collect the 10 recency for the level of the pr=
ovince.
> This is not true and we know from ruins of the empire that the city has =
no regent so its
> 10 RP go unclaimed. All the role and power of the chamberlain is to nomi=
tate the new
> emperor and to protect the crown. And tell me if it's few.
> --
> Nadastor, nadastor@mail5.clio.it
>
I don't have RoE with me now, but I can't remember seeing anywhere
that the Chamberlain is not invested with the regency of the Imperial
City province. Yes, it is made explicit that there is now legitimate
ruler, but I also seem to remember a statement about the Chamberlain
being the closest thing to the ruler of the Imperial City.

Anyway, a Chamberlain that is not the ruler of the city would be
severely handicapped. A mere three regency points and no money would
make him the laughing stock of all the contenders for the Iron
Throne, if not the whole of Anuire. He would be totally defenseless,
have no possibility to do any realm actions and be unable to pay for
even an Imperial Legionaire to guard the Imperial Crown. And
of course there would be a 10th-level province waiting for
anyone who wanted to take a grab at it and invest it into his/her
own realm. Without the Imperial City under his control it would be
impossible for the Chamberlain to act as a mediator between Avan,
Boeruine, Tael and all the other wannabee kind of figures, that walk
around Cerilia. The province would probably be invested by one of the
before mentioned and again Anuire would be in war.

Also, with the Chamberlain being the one who chooses the new Emperor,
he's able to ceremonially divest the city to the one he thinks is
worthy of it.

[Nadastor]

> I don't have RoE with me now, but I can't remember seeing anywhere
> that the Chamberlain is not invested with the regency of the Imperial
> City province. Yes, it is made explicit that there is now legitimate
> ruler, but I also seem to remember a statement about the Chamberlain
> being the closest thing to the ruler of the Imperial City.
>
> Anyway, a Chamberlain that is not the ruler of the city would be
> severely handicapped. A mere three regency points and no money would
> make him the laughing stock of all the contenders for the Iron
> Throne, if not the whole of Anuire. He would be totally defenseless,
> have no possibility to do any realm actions and be unable to pay for
> even an Imperial Legionaire to guard the Imperial Crown. And
> of course there would be a 10th-level province waiting for
> anyone who wanted to take a grab at it and invest it into his/her
> own realm. Without the Imperial City under his control it would be
> impossible for the Chamberlain to act as a mediator between Avan,
> Boeruine, Tael and all the other wannabee kind of figures, that walk
> around Cerilia. The province would probably be invested by one of the
> before mentioned and again Anuire would be in war.
>
> Also, with the Chamberlain being the one who chooses the new Emperor,
> he's able to ceremonially divest the city to the one he thinks is
> worthy of it.
Ok, RoE says on page 43 : "REGENT : The Imperial City technically has no regent - only
the Emperor of Anuire may claim it, but no one sits the Iron Throne at this time. The
closest functionary to a ruler the city has is the Chamberlain, Caliedhe Dosiere, who
carries the Emperor's signet ring bearing the Imperial Seal and ensures that no one
takes the Throne."
But even without this. IMO you haven't to think about regency as all that is. The City
of Anuire is a ca 30 miles square city apart of a 10th level province. People don't mind
about if you get 10 RP (that everyway can't make such a difference, all dukes could take
the city even with these 10 RP), people know that the chamberlain is the chamberlain and
he has the right (I mean, Birthright) of leading the city until an emperor can be found.
People pay their taxes to the government, that is the same that there was with the
emperor, only the chamberlain lead it.
I think we can consider the chamberlain as a regent for regarding all mundane aspect of
the domain (taxes, military forces, political decision, and so on), and i think he has
the power to do things like ruling the province. But for as regard recency i think he
cannot be the recent, for this means necessarly that he's the emperor.
Ah, i would see who have the courage, maybe foolishness, to attack and conquer the
throne without right in the nowdays Anuire, he will find all other regent, all other
pretendent, for the first time togheter fighting against him.

- --
Nadastor, nadastor@mail5.clio.it