Ghoere

[Cec Stacey]

As a sample of how politically diabolical the BR game can be, I thought
I'd drop this little scenario I ran on my campaign to keep the guys on
their toes. The main realm is Roesone, and the Black Baron has a fairly
large army. He has, as suggested by the secrets book, diplomatic
understandings with Alamie, Mhoried and Elenie that should Ghoere attack
one, the others will invade. Well, Baron Ghoere just happened to be doing
espionage at the time one of these deals was made (lieutenant action), and
subsequently found out all about these deals. Taking advantage of this, he
gathered his army in Bhaelene, which is a pretty central location in his
realm. Scry realm spells showed him massing his army, with an attack on
Mhoried planned. Actually, only 2 infantry units marched into Mhoried,
while the rest stayed in Bhaelene (out of scouting range). When the Black
Baron of Roesone, obligating his own agreements, marched into Ghoere, he
met the Baron's almost entire army in a massive ambush, as they charged out
of Bhaelene at the invaders. Roesone managed to escape with only a few
units intact, and Ghoere was able to make a diplomatic killing out of the
event.
Hey, with just a bit of creativity, a DM can have a great time with the BR
setting. Sometimes I forget all about my dice, and all we do is roleplay.
Some of the best games can be had this way...

[Dandakil Snerd/Obscured]

of course, then Mhoried and Elinie and Alamie would have to fulfill
their obligation and invade Ghoere, as Roesone did. Thus, Ghoere
would not make a political killing, and would probably lose all provinces
around the center province, Bhaelene.

- ---Dan

- ----------
From: Cec Stacey
To: Birthright Mailing List
Subject: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Ghoere
Date: Friday, May 30, 1997 2:06 PM

As a sample of how politically diabolical the BR game can be, I thought
I'd drop this little scenario I ran on my campaign to keep the guys on
their toes. The main realm is Roesone, and the Black Baron has a fairly
large army. He has, as suggested by the secrets book, diplomatic
understandings with Alamie, Mhoried and Elenie that should Ghoere attack
one, the others will invade. Well, Baron Ghoere just happened to be doing
espionage at the time one of these deals was made (lieutenant action), and
subsequently found out all about these deals. Taking advantage of this, he
gathered his army in Bhaelene, which is a pretty central location in his
realm. Scry realm spells showed him massing his army, with an attack on
Mhoried planned. Actually, only 2 infantry units marched into Mhoried,
while the rest stayed in Bhaelene (out of scouting range). When the Black
Baron of Roesone, obligating his own agreements, marched into Ghoere, he
met the Baron's almost entire army in a massive ambush, as they charged out
of Bhaelene at the invaders. Roesone managed to escape with only a few
units intact, and Ghoere was able to make a diplomatic killing out of the
event.
Hey, with just a bit of creativity, a DM can have a great time with the BR
setting. Sometimes I forget all about my dice, and all we do is roleplay.
Some of the best games can be had this way...
'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[JOHN RICKARDS]

> From: Dandakil Snerd/Obscured
> To: birthright
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Ghoere
> Date sent: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:40:38 -0700
> Send reply to: birthright@MPGN.COM

> of course, then Mhoried and Elinie and Alamie would have to fulfill
> their obligation and invade Ghoere, as Roesone did. Thus, Ghoere
> would not make a political killing, and would probably lose all provinces
> around the center province, Bhaelene.
>
> ---Dan

As far as I understand, the treaty nations agreed to help each other
if they were invaded by Ghoere - not if one of them invaded as
Roesone did. Also they might tend to be rather cautious, not knowing
how many other units Ghoere would have hidden for just such an
occasion, giving Ghoere time to restore its border defences.

Fair point though.

:-)

John Rickards

"He who is looking for something has lost something."
"And he who is not looking?"
"He gets run over."



PS. Dan. Hahahahaha.

[Dandakil Snerd/Obscured]

even if only two units invaded Mhoried, as per the original message, that
would
still be an invasion of Mhoried by Ghoere. Thus, it would be Roesones duty
to invade, as well as all of the other nations in the treaty.

Go back and read the original message.

- ----------
From: JOHN RICKARDS
To: birthright@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Ghoere
Date: Saturday, May 31, 1997 6:31 AM

> From: Dandakil Snerd/Obscured
> To: birthright
> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Ghoere
> Date sent: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:40:38 -0700
> Send reply to: birthright@MPGN.COM

> of course, then Mhoried and Elinie and Alamie would have to fulfill
> their obligation and invade Ghoere, as Roesone did. Thus, Ghoere
> would not make a political killing, and would probably lose all provinces
> around the center province, Bhaelene.
>
> ---Dan

As far as I understand, the treaty nations agreed to help each other
if they were invaded by Ghoere - not if one of them invaded as
Roesone did. Also they might tend to be rather cautious, not knowing
how many other units Ghoere would have hidden for just such an
occasion, giving Ghoere time to restore its border defences.

Fair point though.

:-)

John Rickards

"He who is looking for something has lost something."
"And he who is not looking?"
"He gets run over."



PS. Dan. Hahahahaha.'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[Trevor Romkey]

At 01:31 PM 31/05/97 GMT, you wrote:
>> From: Dandakil Snerd/Obscured
>> To: birthright
>> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Ghoere
>> Date sent: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:40:38 -0700
>> Send reply to: birthright@MPGN.COM
>
>> of course, then Mhoried and Elinie and Alamie would have to fulfill
>> their obligation and invade Ghoere, as Roesone did. Thus, Ghoere
>> would not make a political killing, and would probably lose all provinces
>> around the center province, Bhaelene.
>>
>> ---Dan
>
>As far as I understand, the treaty nations agreed to help each other
>if they were invaded by Ghoere - not if one of them invaded as
>Roesone did. Also they might tend to be rather cautious, not knowing
>how many other units Ghoere would have hidden for just such an
>occasion, giving Ghoere time to restore its border defences.
>
>Fair point though.
>
>:-)
>
>John Rickards
Let me explain the situation( I was the player for Roesone in the above
example).

After I invaded, and I only did so because I thought most of Ghoere's troops
would be on his northern border, my intentions were to pillage the province
and go home. I didn't come prepared for a big battle and had ,perhaps , 10
units. Ghoere , however, attacked me, from his capitol, with nearly 30
units! Remember this is war move 1 and Ghoere still has three left. I knew
that my army was doomed, so I retreated all my mounted units(maybe 3
knights) and left the infantry etc.. Obviously they were wiped out. Now
Ghoere still had 3 more moves left, with only 12-14 units between him, and
CAercas, so I did what was necessary, I sued for peace. I paid him
off(something like 10 gbs) and signed an anti-agression treaty. By the time
my allies could have reacted, there was peace and Ghoere didn't even enter
Roesone! In one fell swoop Ghoere, made some cash, eliminated a threat on
his southern border, and humiliated me. It was a genius manuever and I hate
him for it!

He and I have never come to blows since then, though he has been a thorne in
my side and the rest of the players since day one.

[trevor]

johnpost@umich.edu wrote:
>
> Scouts: Acting as skirmishers and infiltrators on the battlefield,
> scouts are
> extremely useful for gathering information. An army with a company of
> scouts
> automatically identifies enemy forces in adjacent provinces, allowing
> the
> general to bypass strong forces and seek contact with weaker ones if
> desired.
> (BR Rulebook pp 63)
>
> Scouts: Scout units can automatically spot enemy units in any province
> adjacent to the scouts' location. This allows the attacker to have a
> rough
> idea of the defending forces before he actually moves into a province.
> (BR Rulebook pp 65)

All true...

> I don't know how your DM gives you information. But by the way I read
> the
> above passages you should have been informed of the size of the
> defending
> force when you entered an adjacent province and should have changed your
> route accordingly. If you were not present or your local commander wasOnce I moved(war move 1) the defender, Ghoere, gets to go. He moved into
Danaroene and I was forced to engage. My monted units had enough movement to
leave the province, back to Roesone, but the infantry etc. were out of luck.

> an
> idiot then maybe the orders to invade the province were followed
> ignoring
> the inbformation.
>
> When I run a war the agressor moves her forces one province, then I
> update
> the information on the map based on scouts, scrying, and espionage. The
> agressor is then able to move another province, etc. I don't know, maybe
> I am doing it wrong, but anyone with properly trained scouts should not
> walk into an ambush and lose most of her army.

True but remember Ghoere was planning this, the moment I entered his country
his army was on the move.

> Generally Scouts travel in front of an army, as in several miles in
> front
> of an army. If you had invaded with the scouts in the vanguard, you
> could
> have withdrawn your main troops to defensive positions inside of
> Roesone.Again I don't agree, but the rules don't allow for additional movement for
the ground pounders. So all that got out was mounted units...


> Then Ghoere would have had to invade Roesone. You could have called up
> Peasant Levies, used your fortifications, and asked your allies for help
> in defending your realm.

Ghoere still had 3 war moves left, the above actions could not be performed,
because we were in war moves and all the other players, including myself, had
completed our actions...

> On Sat, 31 May 1997 16:19:29 -0300 (ADT) wizwork@fox.nstn.ca (Trevor
> Romkey) wrote:
>
> >As a point of information, I did have scouts, when I invaded Danaroene
> >there
> >was only 1 unit of infantry However, when I enetered Danaroene, my
> >scouts
> >told me , too late, that the capitol Bhalaene, was brimming with
> >troops.
> >Please suggest to me how scouts would have allowed me to escape
> >Ghoere's
> >manuever???
> >
> >
> >At 01:36 PM 31/05/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >>Concerning the Ghoere ambush, Roesone got what s/he deserved. Any
> >>army that invades without the assistance of scout units should
> >>blunder into a better prepared enemy.
> >>
> >>On Sat, 31 May 1997 12:31:44 -0300 (ADT) wizwork@fox.nstn.ca (Trevor
> >>Romkey) wrote:
> >>
> >>>At 01:31 PM 31/05/97 GMT, you wrote:
> >>>>> From: Dandakil Snerd/Obscured
> >>>>> To: birthright
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Ghoere
> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:40:38 -0700
> >>>>> Send reply to: birthright@MPGN.COM
> >>>>
> >>>>> of course, then Mhoried and Elinie and Alamie would have to
> >fulfill
> >>>>> their obligation and invade Ghoere, as Roesone did. Thus, Ghoere
> >>>>> would not make a political killing, and would probably lose all
> >>>provinces
> >>>>> around the center province, Bhaelene.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---Dan
> >>>>
> >>>>As far as I understand, the treaty nations agreed to help each other
> >>>>if they were invaded by Ghoere - not if one of them invaded as
> >>>>Roesone did. Also they might tend to be rather cautious, not knowing
> >>>>how many other units Ghoere would have hidden for just such an
> >>>>occasion, giving Ghoere time to restore its border defences.
> >>>>
> >>>>Fair point though.
> >>>>
> >>>>:-)
> >>>>
> >>>>John Rickards
> >>>Let me explain the situation( I was the player for Roesone in the
> >above
> >>>example).
> >>>
> >>>After I invaded, and I only did so because I thought most of Ghoere's
> >>>troops
> >>>would be on his northern border, my intentions were to pillage the
> >>>province
> >>>and go home. I didn't come prepared for a big battle and had ,perhaps
> >,
> >>>10
> >>>units. Ghoere , however, attacked me, from his capitol, with nearly
> >30
> >>>units! Remember this is war move 1 and Ghoere still has three left. I
> >>>knew
> >>>that my army was doomed, so I retreated all my mounted units(maybe 3
> >>>knights) and left the infantry etc.. Obviously they were wiped out.
> >Now
> >>>Ghoere still had 3 more moves left, with only 12-14 units between
> >him,
> >>>and
> >>>CAercas, so I did what was necessary, I sued for peace. I paid him
> >>>off(something like 10 gbs) and signed an anti-agression treaty. By
> >the
> >>>time
> >>>my allies could have reacted, there was peace and Ghoere didn't even
> >>>enter
> >>>Roesone! In one fell swoop Ghoere, made some cash, eliminated a
> >threat
> >>>on
> >>>his southern border, and humiliated me. It was a genius manuever and
> >I
> >>>hate
> >>>him for it!
> >>>
> >>>He and I have never come to blows since then, though he has been a
> >>>thorne in
> >>>my side and the rest of the players since day one.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>************************************************** *******************
> >**
> >>>****
> >>>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with
> >the
> >>>line
> >>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
> >>
> >>************************************************** ********************
> >*****
> >>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
> >line
> >>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >************************************************** *********************
> >****
> >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the
> >line
> >'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.I \\

[Cec Stacey]

>
> Scouts: Acting as skirmishers and infiltrators on the battlefield,
> scouts are
> extremely useful for gathering information. An army with a company of
> scouts
> automatically identifies enemy forces in adjacent provinces, allowing
> the
> general to bypass strong forces and seek contact with weaker ones if
> desired.
> (BR Rulebook pp 63)
>
> Scouts: Scout units can automatically spot enemy units in any province
> adjacent to the scouts' location. This allows the attacker to have a
> rough
> idea of the defending forces before he actually moves into a province.
> (BR Rulebook pp 65)
>
> I don't know how your DM gives you information. But by the way I read
> the
> above passages you should have been informed of the size of the
> defending
> force when you entered an adjacent province and should have changed your
> route accordingly. If you were not present or your local commander was
> an
> idiot then maybe the orders to invade the province were followed
> ignoring
> the inbformation.
>
> When I run a war the agressor moves her forces one province, then I
> update
> the information on the map based on scouts, scrying, and espionage. The
> agressor is then able to move another province, etc. I don't know, maybe
> I am doing it wrong, but anyone with properly trained scouts should not
> walk into an ambush and lose most of her army.
>
> Generally Scouts travel in front of an army, as in several miles in
> front
> of an army. If you had invaded with the scouts in the vanguard, you
> could
> have withdrawn your main troops to defensive positions inside of
> Roesone.
> Then Ghoere would have had to invade Roesone. You could have called up
> Peasant Levies, used your fortifications, and asked your allies for help
> in defending your realm.
>
>
I am the aforementioned DM, and I handle scouts like the book.
Unfortunately, there's something you're missing called "initiative". It
works like this - Ghoere declares war - 1st war move into Mhoried. Roesone
declares war, 1st war move into Ghoere. Now, is Roesone not the agressor
vs. Ghoere, and Ghoere the agressor vs. Mhoried? Agressor moves first,
followed by defender. When Roesone's armies moved into Ghoere, the scouts
did notify about the large number of units in Bhaelene. And, rules-wise,
moving scouts far in advance of the army would mean one war move ahead -
which would spell suicide for any scouts doing so.