(DnD 5e) Birthright Conversion

[Delazar]

This looks like the easiest edition in the last 15 years to make a conversion of the Birthright rules. It really gives me a ADnD 2e vibe.

Though maybe it's better to wait for the PHB to come out. Anyone feels like bouncing some ideas around?

I'd like to keep it as similar to the original rules as possible (I believe the 3rd ed conversion changed too much stuff).

For real starters, I think all we need are Races (or even just use the races as in the Basic document) and Blood Abilities conversions.

who's up for it?

[Sorontar]

This looks like the easiest edition in the last 15 years to make a conversion of the Birthright rules. It really gives me a ADnD 2e vibe.

Though maybe it's better to wait for the PHB to come out. Anyone feels like bouncing some ideas around?


Sounds like a good thing to talk about. As the primary site for Birthright, we will need to have something to show possible new fans, even if it is just ideas, not full rules.

I have only been following Next/5e from a distance. What are the key elements? What are being used instead of NWPs/Skills/Feats? How are classes specialised?

Sorontar

[Delazar]

Basic rules can be downloaded for free on the Wizards site

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/basicrules

All in all, looks like mix between 2e and 3.5, without Feats for the moments.

I kind of like it.

[Sorontar]

Thank you. Having a peruse. Even the secondary d20 roll for advantage/disadvantage sounds quite new. It will be interesting what characters/npcs/races/spells etc can change in gameplay/capability.

Sorontar

[arpig2]

From a quick perusal of the download, I don't see much of a need to do any converting, either the 2E or the 3E versions of Birthright rules would work with only a minor tweak or two here or there.

[Sorontar]

I have stuck a placeholder page on the wiki for any conversion notes and links to related conversations and pages -

5e conversion draft (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=5e_conversion_draft)

Sorontar

[GrendelTodd]

Given I'm currently getting my toes wet in this very topic (I've been a long time lurker, but I do have a BR campaign I'm toying with converting), I'll post some of the stuff I've been experimenting with.

On Races:

Humans use the optional array, but with the following modifiers...

+1 to one characteristic relevant to cultural subset (Str = Vos, Dex = Brecht, Con = Rjurik, Int = Khanazi, Wis = Anuirean, and for the sake of completeness, Cha = Maesetian).
+1 to any other characteristic of choice.
Languages: native tongue + one other cultural human language of choice.
One bonus skill proficiency picked from a short list as defined by culture (Anuirean - Deception, Insight or Investigation; Brecht - Acrobatics, Persuasion or Slight of Hand; Khanazi - Arcane, History or Mount [land]; Rjurik - Nature, Perception or Survival; Vos - Animal Handling, Athletics, or Intimidate; and again, for the sake of completeness, Maesetian - Medicine, Performance or Religion).
One bonus feat of choice.


Elves use the Wood Elf subrace, Dwarves use the Mountain Dwarf subrace & Halflings use the Lightfoot subrace (I could see a good argument for tweaking the Halflings to get their shadow powers in, but I haven't had the time/energy to do it myself. Always struck me as a tad overpowered anyway).

On Blooded Characters vs. Common Heroes
Commoners, instead of the xp boost, get an Inspiration boost (start with 1 each session, which resets with a short rest). Alternately just drop it as a rule option for Blooded characters.

On Classes:
Certain classes are restricted by Race, Culture or Background/Blood.

Barbarians restricted to Rjurik, Vos and some humanoids (Elves too maybe?).
Dwarves and Halflings may not be Mages, while Humans may not take more than 4 levels unless they are Blooded.
Elves may not be Clerics, Druids or Paladins. Dwarves may not be Druids.
Monks - no. Well, maybe from freakish order from Aduria or some other far off place. The idea of Azrai Cultist Monks is kinda cool though.


At this point I'm sticking with the Domain & Bloodline rules as writ for 2e, editing how powers work in 5e as needed on a case by case basis. I'm really looking forward though to what other folks might come up with though.

[Blastin]

That actually looks pretty good GrendelTod. I agree that this edition will be MUCH easier to convert.

[Sorontar]

I am only half-way through the document. While rangers, druids and paladins are mentioned in passing, they are never defined. Does anyone know whether they will actually be classes or just archetypes of the standard classes? I ask this because how we handle Guilder and Magician (and those classes) will be influenced by this.

Sorontar

[Delazar]

These are just the basic rules, the full PHB will be out in August, and will contain all the classes mentioned by you (and also bard, barbarian, warlock, sorcerer).

[GrendelTodd]

That fits with everything I've read too. I think Guilder and Magician would work as specializations for Rogue and Wizard.

[Thelandrin]

I don't know how they're planning to handle classes/prestige classes etc. (I haven't looked yet), but having Wizard as the blooded archetype of the Magician might be more interesting.

[Blastin]

From the sounds of it the subclasses can be VERY different from the parent class. They have confirmed via tweets by Mike Mearles that there will be a Spell sword subclass of the fighter, a Spell using subclass of the thief, and a sub class for each of the wizard schools, for example. So it sounds like making the guilder and magician subclasses should be VERY doable.

[Fizz]

I did some playtesting of 5E, and yes the vibe is very much to reverse the trend that 3E to 4E had. I'm much happier with it than 4E. They have actually (seemingly) borrowed some elements from Castles & Crusades too (which has been my system of choice for the last 10 years).

Last i heard, the game was going to built in tiers. The basic set is the simplest, but expansions that include feats and more advanced mechanics may be added on as optional rulesets. 5E also goes with bounded accuracy- you don't gain much in skill as you go up in level- what you gain are more hit points and powers. But you don't gain a +1 doing ___ very often.

For our Birthright conversion, i think the most important factor is to make sure that everything is justified and consistent with the flavor of Birthright. That is, we don't want to allow a class just because it's new- it needs to justifiably fit within Birthright.

-Fizz

[Fizz]

I am only half-way through the document. While rangers, druids and paladins are mentioned in passing, they are never defined. Does anyone know whether they will actually be classes or just archetypes of the standard classes? I ask this because how we handle Guilder and Magician (and those classes) will be influenced by this.

In the last playtest i did, all three were classes. I was actually not happy with the ranger and druid- they were too similar and the druid's ability to shapechange was WAAAAAY overpowered (my playtest group at 5th level had him transforming into a t-rex iirc). Hopefully they corrected that.

Paladins had sub-archetypes too (though they weren't called such at that stage of development). They had subversions based on an "Oath", such as the cavalier (traditional) and warden (nature-guardian).

At that point of development, i thought there were starting to overcomplicate things, so i'm hoping they've simplified it a bit. Either way though, i expect Paladin and Ranger to be full classes with their own subclasses. (But i can't say with 100% certainty.)


-Fizz

[Sorontar]

In the last playtest i did, all three were classes. I was actually not happy with the ranger and druid- they were too similar and the druid's ability to shapechange was WAAAAAY overpowered (my playtest group at 5th level had him transforming into a t-rex iirc). Hopefully they corrected that.

Shapeshifting as a class ability (rather than a spell) needs limits, like power levels relating to the extent or size of how much you can change, or a recovery period after every change. Even in AD&DII, it could be over used.



At that point of development, i thought there were starting to overcomplicate things, so i'm hoping they've simplified it a bit. Either way though, i expect Paladin and Ranger to be full classes with their own subclasses. (But i can't say with 100% certainty.)


It will be interesting whether they start bringing out handbooks to allow further expnasions of the classes, like the range of books they had for AD&DII.

Any idea about how bards and psionicists/wilders are dealt with? If they having anything novel about "mindtricks", we might be able to use it to improve on the Seeming and other Shadow magic.

Sorontar

[Fizz]

Shapeshifting as a class ability (rather than a spell) needs limits, like power levels relating to the extent or size of how much you can change, or a recovery period after every change. Even in AD&DII, it could be over used.

Yeah i agree. It did have some limits but they were very messed up. I wasn't playing the druid, but everyone in the group agreed it was messed up. I was playing the warden paladin, riding an elk mount, giving me 3 attacks per round- it was pretty potent too.


It will be interesting whether they start bringing out handbooks to allow further expnasions of the classes, like the range of books they had for AD&DII.

Any idea about how bards and psionicists/wilders are dealt with? If they having anything novel about "mindtricks", we might be able to use it to improve on the Seeming and other Shadow magic.

Sorontar

I didn't see anything about psionics- i don't think they ever put those into any of the playtests. The last playtest i did (last September) did include bards as a class. The base bard seemed pretty standard, actually- a mix of 3E and 2nd ed. It then separated into two "colleges", which included the "college of valor" (militant viking-skald types), "college of wit" (prankster types).

I think it was after this playtest that they started changing the concept to subclasses. So i'd guess "skald" and "prankster" may be subclasses of Bard.

The last pretest i did had a different name for each version of a class. They were called oaths for paladins, domains for clerics, circles for druids, etc etc. From what i have read, going to subclasses makes much more sense and should (hopefully) simplify the flow, because i felt the class structures were getting unneccessarily complicated.

Overall, i think i will like it more than 4E. It remains to be seen if i'll like it more than C&C or 2nd Ed though. Time will tell...

-Fizz

[Blastin]

I got hold of the alpha release (one of the most up to date internal playtest docs) and, other than some slight changes, it seems to be matching up pretty well with all the teaser pieces that WotC has been releasing. Overall I think it's gonna be VERY easy to convert BR to 5e. Building the magician and guilder as subclasses of wizard and rouge would be fairly simple. A few of the sub classes already there seem perfect for BR as well (the green knight paladin oath seems perfect for elves, just ignore the divine part and say it's arcane).
I can't wait to get my hands on the PHB next week (if I can snag a premier store copy) so I can see how close it is the the alpha doc. If it's even close (and I suspect it will be) than I foresee a VERY easy conversion.

[Fizz]

Well, i can now confirm that in the full PH, the ranger, druid, paladin, are not specialties but are full classes, each with their own sub-specialties.

They've gone the route that each magical "source" justifies its own class. So the studious type (wizard) is one class, the innately magical (sorcerer) is another class, and the higher-power pact (warlock) is yet another class. This makes me wonder whether magician might be better served as its own class. Or perhaps Magician is the base class, and the Wizard becomes a sub-class (since it's the more specialized with higher requirements). But that's for discussion when we start the conversion. :)

Feats do exist, but they are optional and only taken as an alternative to an ability boost. They seem much more restrained than those of 3E.

All characters have a background as well, which further tweaks various skills and other parameters.

At this point, i'd describe the new edition as somewhere between 2nd Ed and 3E. It has... potential... but i don't pass full judgement yet. Heh.


-Fizz

[Thelandrin]

Having received my copy of the PHB this week, I'm cautiously optimistic. The rules look fairly swift and straightforward, with a severe cut-down on the sheer amount of bonuses in the game (almost none, that I could see), so I'm now I'm interested to read the MM and DMG to see what they've done there.

[Delazar]

Don't have the PHB yet, but from what I see from the free rules, I'm also quite optimistic.

We recently started a Birthright campaign using ADnD 2e rules, but I4m seriously considering to "convert" to 5e after I have a look at the 3 core rulebooks.

[Vicente]

I haven't got the PHB yet, but the free rules and all the PHB and MM previews make me really optimistic about this version. Also, the concept of bounded accuracy makes DnD 5e a great fit for Birthright, even more than 2e I would say.

Regards!

[JakobLiar]

Currently looking at a friend's copy of the PHB and I'm loving it so far. Been playing 5th Edition since the Starter Set came out (though my friends and I have the Alpha version) and I'm enjoying what I've seen so far in the PHB. Of course, I've only played Rogues so far (one session I played the generic Human Noble Fighter and never once used my Ancestral Axe).

I haven't read the book enough yet to judge on what kind of changes there needs to be, but I have enjoyed the eight sessions of games I've played in on so far.

[Vicente]

Currently looking at a friend's copy of the PHB and I'm loving it so far. Been playing 5th Edition since the Starter Set came out (though my friends and I have the Alpha version) and I'm enjoying what I've seen so far in the PHB. Of course, I've only played Rogues so far (one session I played the generic Human Noble Fighter and never once used my Ancestral Axe).

I haven't read the book enough yet to judge on what kind of changes there needs to be, but I have enjoyed the eight sessions of games I've played in on so far.

Get also the free Basic PDF, they updated it recently and divided it into 2 PDFs, Player and GM. More backgrounds, monsters, magic items... And there is also a free PDF for Hoard of the Dragon Queen.

Regards!

[Thelandrin]

Thanks for the heads-up, Vicente!

[JakobLiar]

Yeah, thanks for the info. I don't even think my friend who owns those two books knows about these PDFs yet and he's usually well-informed on new PDFs and books.

EDIT: Read the backgrounds, classes, races, etc... all the same from the PHB, except the PHB has more. Nothing new in these PDFs and recall seeing the 'Basic Rules' PDFs in a binder with my friend's stuff, so nevermind on him not having it.

[dundjinnmasta]

Super excited for the new D&D. It definitely gives me OSR vibes. Birthright, Ravenloft, and Dragonlance are really overwhelming my better judgement as I have been reading over everything I can about 5E. I will probably start working on Birthright conversions again as I did for the beginning 4E games... So much stuff has come out now too... I am torn between using the old BR system, the updated system for d20 from Birthright.net, or the Pathfinder system for Regency/Kingdom management... each of them have their merits and flaws.

[Vicente]

@Thelandrin No probs :)
@JakobLiar

As far as I know, there are 4 free PDFs right now:

- Basic DnD Players v0.2
- Basic DnD DM v0.1
- Hoard of the Dragon Queen Suplement 1
- Basic DnD Adventurers League v0.1

And then a ton of free character sheets: from the Starter Set, blank (form-fillable and normal).

The idea is that the free PDFs will be updated little by little as new books are published. I'm not sure if there is going to be an update when they release the MM (as they already published the Basic DM with monsters), but I think there is going to be an update with the second Tyranny of Dragons adventure (probably another Suplement) and with the DMG.

Honestly, I think those free PDFs are a great idea. They allow people to check DnD for free, contain all the information needed to play and are a good gateway for the physical books. WotC is managing 5e so far very well, and it seems to have a very clear and interesting vision on how to handle it.

Regards!

[JakobLiar]

I gotcha, man. I saw and I am a little hesitant about that Adventurer's League, though I didn't see it on the website for that one. However, considering that my GM is trying to push me into playing during the League game, I might end up doing it anyway. I just disliked how Pathfinder did their Pathfinder Society, because I never got to keep anything my character stole or looted from enemies. It was always annoying.

Overall, I'm still loving it and when I get paid again (this upcoming Friday), I expect to have enough money to be able to purchase the game (and possibly both books). :)

[Delazar]

Finally got a chance to look at the PHB, seems there's only 7 domains for Clerics at the moment. By looking at gods with similar portfolios among the pantheons mentioned in the PHB, I came up with this little conversion for Birthright.

Domains: Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, War.

Gods:

Haelyn = Life, War
Nesirie = Tempest, Life
Cuiraecen = Tempest, War

Erik = Nature
Avani = Knowledge, Light
Laerme = Life, Light

Ruornil = Knowledge
Sera = Knowledge, Trickery
Eloele = Trickery

Belinik = War, Death
Kriesha = Nature, Tempest

[JakobLiar]

Thanks to my father for supporting my interest in Dungeons and Dragons, I was able to purchase the PHB. I'm currently reading over it and find it interesting that each one of the Gods are able to have Paladins. I've always thought that it should be possible, but since the old age versions they had to be LG (except in one edition where they could be LG/LE/CG/CE).

Also, love the Wild Magic Sorcerers because I could easily see it as something from the Shadow World (whether its Fey or not), something from the blood of the Gods running through them (especially if its Azrai), or even some hereditary bit of 'radiation' from the event at Mt. Deismarr (the explosion).

Bards would also be cool to play, considering that there is already listed two Bardic Colleges (which would be interesting to see two separate stories for events).

I also love how they did Barbarians with the Unarmored Defense.

I do realize that some of the races won't be playable (or will be highly restricted) such as the Dragonborn and Drow for many of the games, but I will also wait until there are more races listed.

[Thelandrin]

The druid class is sacred to Erik, pretty much exclusively, though I suppose you could make a case for Kriesha as well.

I suppose that Kartathok would be War and Trickery and Moradin maybe War and Life.

[Fizz]

The druid class is sacred to Erik, pretty much exclusively, though I suppose you could make a case for Kriesha as well.
I suppose that Kartathok would be War and Trickery and Moradin maybe War and Life.

Druids will always be a problem with any conversion because of how 2nd Ed handled priests via specialty priests. In 2nd ed Birthright, there were no clerics, but everyone was a specialty priest. A priest of Haelyn felt very different from a priest of Eloele, etc.

Now however, we have the problem that the priest of any faith must be a cleric, except for Erik whose priests are druids. So the priest of every faith is nigh-identical (save for a few tweaks), whereas the priests of Erik are vastly different. It gives almost a special status to the faith that i've always felt was out of balance (ironic isn't it?) somehow.


-Fizz

[Delazar]

I would probably consider the Druid like something very different from a Cleric in Birthright.

A cleric gets his power from a god (like Erik) while a druid takes his power from Nature itself, from the world, from the mebhaighl. Probably a druid respects Erik's faith, in the same way as he respects Nesirie, goddess of the seas, but does not "venerate" him.

In that sense, I'd even let elves be druids. And I would have Druids use Sources instead of Temples.

[Delazar]

New Subrace: Cerilian Dwarf

Dense Body. You have resistance against bludgeoning damage.
Non-magical. You have advantage on saving throws agains spells, but you cannot choose choose following classes / archetypes:
Fighter (Eldritch Knight), Rogue (Arcane Trickster), Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard.

PS: didn't give an additional ability increase, since the two above traits seem powerful enough.

[Thelandrin]

This is what I was thinking for the humans of Cerilia:

ANUIREAN
Bonus Ability: +1 to Wisdom and one other of your choice
Bonus Skill (choose one): Deception, History, Insight, Persuasion
Bonus Feat (choose one): Inspiring Leader, Mounted Combatant, War Caster

BRECHT
Bonus Ability: +1 to Dexterity and one other of your choice
Bonus Skill (choose one): Acrobatics, Athletics, one type of artisan tools, navigator's tools
Bonus Feat (choose one): Defensive Duellist, Dual Wielder, Linguist

KHINASI
Bonus Ability: +1 to Intelligence and one other of your choice
Bonus Skill (choose one): Animal Handling, Arcana, Insight, Persuasion
Bonus Feat (choose one): Elemental Adept, Keen Mind, War Caster

RJURIK
Bonus Ability: +1 to Constitution and one other of your choice
Bonus Skill (choose one): Nature, Perception, Stealth, Survival
Bonus Feat (choose one): Alert, Observant, Resilient

VOS
Bonus Ability: +1 to Strength and one other of your choice
Bonus Skill (choose one): Animal Handling, Intimidation, Perception, Survival
Bonus Feat (choose one): Durable, Mage Slayer, Savage Attacker

[Delazar]

This is what I was thinking for the humans of Cerilia:

In addition to the listed ability boost, you may choose one other ability to gain a +1 boost, as well proficiency in one of the listed skills and one of the listed feats.


I suppose you mean the "optional" traits for humans, where they get +1 to two abilities?

Or would you add this to the +1 to ALL ability scores?

EDIT: the improved formatting clarified it for me... :)

[Fizz]

A cleric gets his power from a god (like Erik) while a druid takes his power from Nature itself, from the world, from the mebhaighl. Probably a druid respects Erik's faith, in the same way as he respects Nesirie, goddess of the seas, but does not "venerate" him. In that sense, I'd even let elves be druids. And I would have Druids use Sources instead of Temples.

Well, in 2nd Ed it was quite clear that druids were the sole priests of Erik, implying that druid abilities were only available through him. That is- druid powers did not come from mebhaighl. Officially.

That said, we have more flexibility in the conversion. And what you say does have some logic to it. But can you envision a cleric of Erik? Hmmmm. It may depend on how flexible 5E clerics are, (which i've not read yet).


-Fizz

[AndrewTall]

Unless you are going to separate mages from mebhaighl, linking druids to it instead of a god may be confusing - although one could argue that such an approach would both strengthen the churches of Erik (drawing strength from both populous and unpopulated lands) allowing more sub-division of the faith of Erik, and perhaps something similar in Vosgaard.

Re: Karamhul and Halflings not being mages, that was a 2e limitation which makes no sense in BR - both races are more magical than humans, allowing them to be mages would possibly marginally reduce cross-race holdings since wizards could no longer petition the karamhul to draw power from Karamhul lands, but equally it could do the opposite - the Karamhul could use sources like their guilds to extend their reach beyond their borders.

Hmm, after 4e I'm a bit reluctant to buy another D&D set, but it sounds like an improvement from everything that people are saying.

[Fizz]

Re: Karamhul and Halflings not being mages, that was a 2e limitation which makes no sense in BR - both races are more magical than humans,

That depends on what you mean by "making sense". Iirc, in the original Birthright book, dwarves are described as being completely non-magical, so it's not just a 2nd Ed thing, but the very nature of dwarves in the setting.

So i'd say a dwarf can be a wizard only if they are blooded. Now could a dwarf be a magician? Ergh... based on the description of "entirely non-magical", i'd want to be a purist and say no.

As for halflings, they may come from the Shadow World and have powers related to that, but does that make them "magical" enough to be able to case True Magic without being blooded? I'm not sure. But they could be a magician without issue.

One of the things i like about Birthright is that magic is not normal, so hefty requirements for magic are a must.


Hmm, after 4e I'm a bit reluctant to buy another D&D set, but it sounds like an improvement from everything that people are saying.

Yes, what they did in 4E has been largely undone. I like to describe it as half-way between 2nd ed and 3E. There may be a few 4E things remaining (warlock), but i think those are easily ignored if desired.

-Fizz

[AndrewTall]

That depends on what you mean by "making sense". Iirc, in the original Birthright book, dwarves are described as being completely non-magical, so it's not just a 2nd Ed thing, but the very nature of dwarves in the setting.-Fizz

Completely non magical beings who can subsist on eating earth alone, are unusually dense, cold-skinned, etc - I see them as less into "showy" magic than the sidhe, but still elemental in nature, but earth/fire as opposed to the sidhe (water/air and possibly earth) or the giants (earthen ties).

The reference on page 5 of the rulebook is "Cerilian dwarves are nonmagical and never use wizard magic. They gain the standard saving throw modifiers allowed to dwarves..."

So they are simply modelling off the base 2e dwarf in my view.

Admittedly I see the karamhul as "under-done" in BR, the sidhe and halflings got a more bespoke treatment, whereas the karamhul, like the giants are merely touched by elemental origin.

I would see them as ideally moving away from clerical magic towards something analogous to druidic power albeit likely based on ancestor worship and less focused on untouched nature. I saw Moradin as a somewhat lazy direct import and think that removing an incarnate deity from the Karamhul would fit better with the move towards a sidhe-like spirit nature and also reduce diplomatic tensions with the Anuirean priesthoods easing interactions.

I confess to using the warforged rules from Eberron to reflect animate elemental spirits/ancestors given form through skill, and generally pushing them away from "short humans" towards something more distinct - with many human races added to BR, having "funny-looking human" races made little sense to me.

[Fizz]

Completely non magical beings who can subsist on eating earth alone,

I don't recall such a reference to their diet. Where is that?


are unusually dense, cold-skinned, etc - I see them as less into "showy" magic than the sidhe, but still elemental in nature, but earth/fire as opposed to the sidhe (water/air and possibly earth) or the giants (earthen ties).

Yeah I can certainly see them having an elemental subtype, but i don't think that makes them magical. In the context of Birthright, creatures like varsks and griffons are not considered magical. I see the Karamhul in the same light.


The reference on page 5 of the rulebook is "Cerilian dwarves are nonmagical and never use wizard magic. They gain the standard saving throw modifiers allowed to dwarves..."

Well there ya go. Non-magical. :)

I agree they have a resemblance to the standard 2nd Ed dwarf and that was certainly the starting point. But then the basis for the 2nd ed dwarf ultimately goes back to Tolkien, and i don't think Tolkien considered his dwarves to be magical.


I would see them as ideally moving away from clerical magic towards something analogous to druidic power albeit likely based on ancestor worship and less focused on untouched nature.

I understand what you're getting at- you want them to be more than short warriors. I get that. But that may be best done culturally.

I have always liked the idea of dwarven magic being based on runes. I actually tried this using the 2nd Ed Vikings handbook. It was rather fun actually. It gave the dwarves their own magic source (arcane because it used mebhaighl, but divine because the knowledge came from Moradin). So this gave the dwaves a magical side without them becoming spellcasters or cleric variants.


I confess to using the warforged rules from Eberron to reflect animate elemental spirits/ancestors given form through skill, and generally pushing them away from "short humans" towards something more distinct - with many human races added to BR, having "funny-looking human" races made little sense to me.

I know squat-all about Eberron so i can't comment on that. But I actually liked how they handled dwarves in 2nd Ed Birthright. They were more unique than the standard dwarves of 2nd ed, but i agree the overhaul wasn't as dramatic as what they did for elves.


-Fizz

[AndrewTall]

I don't recall such a reference to their diet. Where is that?

Page 10 Baruk-Azhik, 3rd para under "the dwarven diet", I can't recall if it is in the main rulebook but given the limited write-up at the start suspect on reflection that the answer is "not", alas for age, you forget where the heck you read stuff :rolleyes:


Well there ya go. Non-magical. :)

No, they are merely noted as not casting wizardly magic - the "non-magical" is specifically tied to that 2e staple limitation for non-humans (except elves), rather than being a generic term prohibiting them from any magic. They still have clerical magic and elemental aspects which directly contradicts a wider interpretation of the term, so unless you are also planning to enforce level limits and bans on dual-classing I'm unsure why you'd keep the no-wizards 2e relic, particularly as karamhul are otherwise at least as magical than humans and in my view far more so.


I agree they have a resemblance to the standard 2nd Ed dwarf and that was certainly the starting point. But then the basis for the 2nd ed dwarf ultimately goes back to Tolkien, and i don't think Tolkien considered his dwarves to be magical.

He didn't have them non-magical either, and if you look at the myths Tolkein drew on Dwerger and so on are routinely described as having magical powers. I wonder sometimes if the tolkein import didn't say "only human and elven wizards" because Gygax saw Gandalf and his brethren as human - something some Tolkeinites would vehemently argue.


I understand what you're getting at- you want them to be more than short warriors. I get that. But that may be best done culturally.

The culture split is already done between humans, making it less effective between species (ideas for goblins welcome, I never had many ideas for their kind). If you want to differentiate Karamhul from the human tribes as other than them being "short grumpy people" you need something more than a superficial culture twist. I add spirit/elemental aspects to provide a mid-point to the sidhe, take them away from a direct competition with humans for living space, to me the culture should spring from actual differences, not just be a few habits.


I have always liked the idea of dwarven magic being based on runes. I actually tried this using the 2nd Ed Vikings handbook. It was rather fun actually. It gave the dwarves their own magic source (arcane because it used mebhaighl, but divine because the knowledge came from Moradin). So this gave the dwaves a magical side without them becoming spellcasters or cleric variants.

To me anyone who casts a spell - wizard, priest, runecaster, or psionicist is a spell-caster, the rest is just details. I toyed with various options before settling for spell-casters drawing power either from the natural world (mebhiaghl) or the Spiritworld (mainly clerical but some wizardly magic). I didn't want to have all-singing-all-dancing priestly casters given their other class and cultural benefits so I needed a split but in practice I let wizards draw on both sources of power to balance them a little and reflect my adjustments to the gods (making them myths only).


I know squat-all about Eberron so i can't comment on that. But I actually liked how they handled dwarves in 2nd Ed Birthright. They were more unique than the standard dwarves of 2nd ed, but i agree the overhaul wasn't as dramatic as what they did for elves. -Fizz

I didn't find much use for Eberron as a setting, but two of their races were interesting to me, the shifters and the warforged. The shifters (descendents of lycanthropes) I used less as a race than as specialist warriors for the Rjurik and Vos (they can gain some interesting feats based on natural weapons and are an alternative to berserkers in some respects). The warforged (artifical lifeforms a like little sentient golems) I used albeit with a completely different back-story, in my setting the Karamhul forged them for elemental allies (giving them an avatar to manifest in) and, on rare occasion, to pass their spirit into when their mortal body failed them.

[Thelandrin]

Elves not being able to be priests (single-class or otherwise) was never in 2nd Edition, yet the Sidhelien cannot use divine magic, so the Karamhul being inherently anti-magical provides an interesting parallel. In fact, it would make sense for their creator deity to have a back-door into his own creations, allowing them to channel divine magic from their creator, whilst still making them unable to arcane magic.

You then have lesser magic in the part of the magicians, which again differ from 2nd Ed rules for the Birthright setting, and dwarves can't be magicians either. In fact, as magicians are lesser mages, not even the Sidhelien can join their ranks.

[Fizz]

Page 10 Baruk-Azhik, 3rd para under "the dwarven diet", I can't recall if it is in the main rulebook but given the limited write-up at the start suspect on reflection that the answer is "not", alas for age, you forget where the heck you read stuff :rolleyes:

Ah, that would do it. I was never a big collector of the Domain Secrets books, so i was not familiar with that one. Interesting. I've never seen it mentioned in the main rulebook.


No, they are merely noted as not casting wizardly magic - the "non-magical" is specifically tied to that 2e staple limitation for non-humans (except elves), rather than being a generic term prohibiting them from any magic. They still have clerical magic and elemental aspects which directly contradicts a wider interpretation of the term,

Slightly different terminology may explain our differences here, i agree. When i think "magical", i think of something that could not be (at least theoretically) justified with the known laws of physics. All the special features of being a dwarf don't strike me as magical- weight difference and toughness could be from bone density, for instance. And we all eat rocks (salt), so a different physiology to process other stones (like various microbes have) isn't a big stretch. I guess my point is simply that something outside of the real-world does not equate to magical inside of the Birthright setting.


so unless you are also planning to enforce level limits and bans on dual-classing I'm unsure why you'd keep the no-wizards 2e relic, particularly as karamhul are otherwise at least as magical than humans and in my view far more so.

I don't think that's quite the same comparison because level limits and dual-classing don't impact the flavor of the setting. A flock of dwarven wizards though could be a game-changer. And of course, we don't have any official characters of the sort, so we'd need to invent some, and figure out a reason why dwarven wizards are so rare.

Also, i am assuming you mean to require dwarves to be blooded, just as humans are, to be a wizard, correct? If so then i'm not vehemently opposed. But if not then i have a bigger bone to pick with you. Heh. As for magicians, a dwarf magician does feel a bit funky to me, but i could deal with it. :)


He didn't have them non-magical either, and if you look at the myths Tolkein drew on Dwerger and so on are routinely described as having magical powers. I wonder sometimes if the tolkein import didn't say "only human and elven wizards" because Gygax saw Gandalf and his brethren as human - something some Tolkeinites would vehemently argue.

You know, the moment i wrote that i had a feeling you'd be much more of a Tolkien scholar than i am (which i'm not). LOL.


If you want to differentiate Karamhul from the human tribes as other than them being "short grumpy people" you need something more than a superficial culture twist. I add spirit/elemental aspects to provide a mid-point to the sidhe, take them away from a direct competition with humans for living space, to me the culture should spring from actual differences, not just be a few habits.

I agree, and that's what i meant when i was talking about using Runes. Dwarves could be runecasters from the 2nd Ed Vikings book, but not clerics or wizards. So the runecaster subsumed both roles to the dwarves. I don't know if you're familiar with the Vikings book, but runes are very different both in mechanic and effect than standard wizard / priest spells. So this made Karamhul magic vastly different and unique. And since the caster "carves" the runes, there is a strong elemental component to it- releasing the mebhaighl from the rock, so to speak.


Of course, anyone can do what they want in their own campaign. The question is one for our would-be 5E conversion, where do we draw the line of what was a legacy rule and the flavor of the setting? No doubt we will have some good discussions about such matters.


-Fizz

[Sorontar]

Of course, anyone can do what they want in their own campaign. The question is one for our would-be 5E conversion, where do we draw the line of what was a legacy rule and the flavor of the setting? No doubt we will have some good discussions about such matters.
-Fizz
I agree. We should take the same approach that was taken for the 3.0/3.5 conversion - work within the functionality of 5ed but maintain the peculiarities of the 2ed Birthright. Only make changes when we agree there are problems to the playability and functionailty of the original rules within 5ed and where there are elements of 5ed that can be accomodated within the Birthright rules without changing the Birthright themes.

To me, that means that for default:
* No Monks.
* No gnomes.
* No Sidhe clerics.
* Five human races with distinct cultures and favoured character templates.
* Druids are a type of cleric for Erik only.
* Paladins are only warriors for certain deities.
* Karamhul have a magical resistence and as such cannot be mages.
* Halflings have an association with the Shadow World.
* There is a Shadow power - Seeming.
* Magicians are lesser powered than True Mages.
* There are Law, Guild, Temple and Source holdings and regents.
* There are provincial regents.

I am sure there is much more, but if we start with these basics and see how these can be accomodated in 5ed, we will get somewhere a lot faster. Any changes to Birthright are exceptions which can be added later.

Remember, we are not trying to play Birthright in 5ed (i.e. modifying Birthright to fit in 5ed). We are trying to use 5ed for Birthright (i.e. modifying 5ed to work in Birthright). That is the distinction that this community has previously made and I recommend we keep on following it.

Sorontar

[caml37]

My Sidhelien elves were like so:
Sidhelien Elves have special bonuses per the Birthrights game, so i'll remake the elves as such:
+2 Dex,
+1 Intelligence,
Unaging,
Perception as a trained skill,
Fey Ancestry
Darkvision 60 ft
Nature's Stride - moving through natural difficult terrain does not cost an elf extra movement.
Pass Without Trace as a druid.

I run the point buy system and allow humans to choose optional or standard. I DO let them apply the +1 to their blood score stat if they choose to do so.

I let all blooded characters use their blood score stat modifier as a one time bonus to hit points at 1st level.
I use a modified version of the 3.5 blood score stat (that they bought with point buy costs, usually 40 points split over the 7 stats):
- every even level is a power. 12 is a minor, 14 is a major, 16 is a great, repeat. I let them buy up to 16 if they're a non-human so everyone could get 3 powers just like they could before in 3.5.
Feedback on that?


How do you guys think Administrate, Warcraft, and Lead should be done in 5th ed? With such a limited number of skills, i'm unsure what to do. I believe I am going to grant additional proficiencies like the 2nd ed book states. Additional proficiencies can be spent on these skills.
I have been doing 3.5 conversion with my people, and we're starting tomorrow with the conversion to 5e.

Also, I had done a static +4 to a stat with heightened ability as a blood power. Should I continue to do so? Should I do the 1d6 to any stat below 14? Should it still be maxed at a 20?

I'd love to hear some feedback.

Christian

[mortenhelles]

Hi

Here is my suggestion for how to handle Birthright Races in D&D 5e.


The races generally follow the descriptions in the Birthright Rulebook, although their traits are changed as specified below.

Dwarf

A Cerilian dwarf has all the traits of the Dwarf race mentioned in the Player’s Handbook, plus the following:

Ability Score Increase. Your Constitution score increases by 2 more. (For a total increase of 4.)

Ability Score Decrease. Your Dexterity score decreases by 2.

Dense. You have an exceptionally stocky build and thick, sturdy bones. You have resistance against bludgeoning weapons and crushing damage.

Favored enemy. You gain a +2 AC bonus against melee attacks made by Orogs and Ogres.

High endurance. You calculate your carrying capacity as if your Strength score is 4 higher than it actually is.

Anti-magical. Whenever you use a magical item or drink a magical potion it has a 20% chance of not working at all.

Rock Eater. You can eat rocks for food and drink mud for water. (DM’s option.)

Elf

A Cerilian elf has all the traits of the Elf race mentioned in the Player’s Handbook, plus the following:

Ability Score Increase. Your Intelligence increases by 1.

Elf Weapon Training. You have proficiency with the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, and longbow.

Embraced by Nature. In natural settings, you /pass without trace/ (see spell description) and ignore difficult terrain when moving.

Halfling

A Cerilian halfling has all the traits of the Halfling race mentioned in the Player’s Handbook, plus the following:

Shadow World Affinity. By concentrating for one round you can detect evil (but not good), detect magic (necromancy only), and sense the presense of undead within 30 feet all at once. Also, you can sense the proximity of the Shadow World. If sufficiently close (DM’s option), you can enter (and leave) the Shadow World once between long rests at a cost of 5 feet of movement. While in the Shadow World, you must actually move from the point of entry to the point of exit. For obvious reasons, you’d normally want for your stay in the Shadow World to be as short as possible.

Human

A Cerilian human has all the traits of the Human race mentioned in the Player’s Handbook. This means that you as a player has the freedom to decide how well your character matches the sterotype of his human culture. To assist you in your choices, below is an overview of the favored ability score, skills and feats for each human culture.

Anuirean
Favored ability score: Wisdom.
Favored skills: Insight, History, Religion.
Favored feats: Great Weapon Master, Heavy Weapon Master, Inspiring Leader.

Brecht
Favored ability score: Dexterity.
Favored skills: Deception, Perception, Slight of Hand.
Favored feats: Defensive Duelist, Dual Wielder, Lucky.

Khinasi
Favored ability score: Intelligence.
Favored skills: Arcana, History, Medicine.
Favored feats: Linguist, Magic Initiate, Mounted Combatant.

Rjurik
Favored ability score: Constitution.
Favored skills: Nature, Religion, Survival.
Favored feats: Alert, Durable, Keen Mind.

Vos
Favored ability score: Strength.
Favored skills: Animal Handling, Intimidation, Survival.
Favored feats: Charger, Martial Adept, Mounted Combatant.

P.S. There is have a nicer formatting here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MCI8KrujUdo3rmcZOIJNC_bcfjwNYIRe4_HydgTIVQs/edit?usp=sharing. I will expand this document as I make my way through the Birthright Rulebook :)

[Delazar]

My Sidhelien elves were like so:
Nature's Stride - moving through natural difficult terrain does not cost an elf extra movement.
Pass Without Trace as a druid.


You mean the 2nd level spell, or the Land's Stride feature? They both seem quite powerful.

I would go with:

Nature's Stride - moving through natural difficult terrain does not cost an elf extra movement. Creature trying to track an elf always have disadvantage on their roll.

[Delazar]

* Druids are a type of cleric for Erik only.


I still think Druid should just be something very distinct from a Cleric of Nature (Erik).

A bit like the distinction between Sorcerer and Wizard.

Druids get their power directly from Nature, from the World, from the mebhaighl (and would use Sources instead of Temples).

Clerics get their powers from their God, and share their love for a specific portfolio (Nature, in the case of Erik). They actively seek more followers, and use Temples.

[Delazar]

New Subrace: Cerilian Halfling

See into the Shadow World. Cerilain halflings can cast the Detect Evil spell. Once they use this power, they must take a short rest before they can use it again.

Step into the Shadow World. Cerilian halflings can cast the Dimension Door spell. Once they use this power, they must take a long rest before they can use it again.

Non-magical. You have advantage on saving throws agains spells, but you cannot choose choose following classes / archetypes: Fighter (Eldritch Knight), Rogue (Arcane Trickster), Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard.

[Sorontar]

I still think Druid should just be something very distinct from a Cleric of Nature (Erik).

A bit like the distinction between Sorcerer and Wizard.

Druids get their power directly from Nature, from the World, from the mebhaighl (and would use Sources instead of Temples).

Clerics get their powers from their God, and share their love for a specific portfolio (Nature, in the case of Erik). They actively seek more followers, and use Temples.

Yes, but 2ed Birthright IIRC used the term "Druid" as a title for Clerics of Erik. There was no Druid class unless the DM substituted the Druid class for the Druid cleric (though that substitution was player campaign-specific, not a canon option).

So the simplest way to convert is to treat Druids as the title of clerics/priests of Erik. The inclusion of the Druid class should not be any more than an optional alternative approach. No need to complicate things any more than we need to. Just like Monks are left out of 2ed, so too may Druids be.

Get the basics right before we start working out whether any new additions should also be added.

Sorontar,
who played in a 2ed BR campaign where the only druids were Druid class (ie. we chose to go non-canon), and Erik had not other cleric/priest (ie. we kept one main religious class per faith).
who also never liked the addition of Sorcerer to Birthright.

[Delazar]

I guess it's a matter of preferences... in any case, there's no "conversion" needed, either one chooses to use Druids as priest of Erik, or he doesn't. So better to not get stuck on this.

I would personally give the title Druid to the Clerics of Erik, and rename the druid class into something elvish, and only let elves take it.

Re: Sorcerers - the idea of a spell caster using the magical power of his blood is actually quite fitting for Birthright, don't you think? :)

Though I'd scrap Wild Magic and Draconic Blood, and their "origin" would be related to their bloodline derivation...

[Fizz]

With regards to cleric/druid, what about not using either? We could create a new class called Priest, and have the subclasses be each of the specialty priests with their own name- Druid for the priest of Erik, maybe Stormlord for the priests of Cuiraecen, etc. This would be most in keeping with how they were handled in 2nd Ed, and remove this entire cleric/druid issue since they'd then all be on equal footing.

-Fizz

[Fizz]

New Subrace: Cerilian Halfling
See into the Shadow World. Cerilain halflings can cast the Detect Evil spell. Once they use this power, they must take a short rest before they can use it again.
Step into the Shadow World. Cerilian halflings can cast the Dimension Door spell. Once they use this power, they must take a long rest before they can use it again.
Non-magical. You have advantage on saving throws agains spells, but you cannot choose choose following classes / archetypes: Fighter (Eldritch Knight), Rogue (Arcane Trickster), Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard.

We'd want to be careful with terminology here. Halflings could Detect Evil etc, but it was an innate power- they weren't casting a spell (ie no memorization or components required).

Some of the restrictions might be overdone- we'd also have to decide what classes are allowed. I don't think Eldritch Knight or Trickster or Warlock are appropriate for anyone in Birthright, not just Halflings. (I suppose you could make a case for the first two if the character were blooded.)

Perhaps we should make a 5E subsection in the forums for such discussions?


-Fizz

[Thelandrin]

The Eldritch Knight would be suitable for specific Fighter/Wizards from canon - Rhuobhe Manslayer, Prince Fhileraene, the Gorgon etc. The Chamberlain could be modelled simply by a few Fighter levels and the rest Wizard-Diviner.

[AndrewTall]

I don't think that's quite the same comparison because level limits and dual-classing don't impact the flavor of the setting. A flock of dwarven wizards though could be a game-changer. And of course, we don't have any official characters of the sort, so we'd need to invent some, and figure out a reason why dwarven wizards are so rare.

All wizards are rare in BR, we'd need 1 wizard per realm, that's all. And I don't see how it impacts the flavour of the setting at all - the Karamhul (and Halflings following the same logic) go from disadvantaged compared to the other races to equal, that's all. You could argue that it brings in the option to have much more Nordic-type Dwerger for some Karamhul realms but I don't see a problem in that.

I'd take the standard 5e dwarf, and modify it to add the BR specifics that changed a standard 2e dwarf into a Birthright Karamhul - bone density and elemental ties; then consider whether the race should be expanded in the same way that sidhe were to make it less generic and more BR-specific, I wouldn't lumber the race with defects that were removed 2 editions ago due to playability concerns.


Also, i am assuming you mean to require dwarves to be blooded, just as humans are, to be a wizard, correct? If so then i'm not vehemently opposed. But if not then i have a bigger bone to pick with you. Heh. As for magicians, a dwarf magician does feel a bit funky to me, but i could deal with it. :)

Probably, which would be a slight issue for the Karamhul given relatively low levels of blooded characters - but open some interesting "whythat idiot? He's the only wizard we've got" type issues. I would personally have the Karamhul as somewhere between huamns and sidhe in terms of "magical weirdness"


You know, the moment i wrote that i had a feeling you'd be much more of a Tolkien scholar than i am (which i'm not). LOL.

Not really, but I had the misfortune of getting into arguments with some of them back in the day and losing, then checking to source material and finding out some of Tolkein use of artistic licence. I recommend the Norse stuff to anyone who wants to use Karamhul in BR, you'll never see them in the same light again.

Says the guy who confesses to creating a Shadow World equivalent of the karamhul who possibly weren't particularly nice.


I agree, and that's what i meant when i was talking about using Runes. Dwarves could be runecasters from the 2nd Ed Vikings book, but not clerics or wizards. So the runecaster subsumed both roles to the dwarves. I don't know if you're familiar with the Vikings book, but runes are very different both in mechanic and effect than standard wizard / priest spells. So this made Karamhul magic vastly different and unique. And since the caster "carves" the runes, there is a strong elemental component to it- releasing the mebhaighl from the rock, so to speak.

Interesting, we have "traditional" magic from the sidhe and copied by goblins and humans, Karamhul magic could then be a completely different tradition, same effect (under a KISS approach) but very different theme.


Of course, anyone can do what they want in their own campaign. The question is one for our would-be 5E conversion, where do we draw the line of what was a legacy rule and the flavor of the setting? No doubt we will have some good discussions about such matters.

Indeed, I'd suggest focusing on what BR changed to 2e and mimicking such changes to 5e though, rather than assuming that 2e standard relics also had to be re-imported, of course then we get the question of what was standard and what was non-standard.

[Delazar]

I suggest to do first a direct "translation" of the AD&D 2e material, and then add "variants", something like:

Direct conversion: the class "druid" doesn't exist, the Clerics of Erik have the Nature domain, and are called "druids".

Variant: All priests of Erik are actually Druids, as per PHB.

In an eventual layout stage, we would put the variants in a coloured box or something.

[Sorontar]

I suggest to do first a direct "translation" of the AD&D 2e material, and then add "variants", something like:

Direct conversion: the class "druid" doesn't exist, the Clerics of Erik have the Nature domain, and are called "druids".

Variant: All priests of Erik are actually Druids, as per PHB.

In an eventual layout stage, we would put the variants in a coloured box or something.

Yep, that is the sort of approach I was meaning. Ultimately it is up to the DM and players to work out how they want to play it but this will allow consistency between editions.

Sorontar

[Truthforger]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but Domain Turns are in the DMG.

[mortenhelles]

I am actually in the process of making such a (direct) D&D 5e conversion for the Birthright Rulebook, page-by-page, with plenty of optional variants.

If anyone can arrange for a D&D 5e section to be made on the Downloads page then I'd be happy put my conversion proposal there. Its currently 14 pages and has conversion rules for races, classes, statecraft skills, equipment and gods.

[mortenhelles]

With help from Arius, the Site Administrator, there now is a D&D 5e Conversion section on the Download page, and I have added my conversion proposal there.

I'll keep monitoring this thread and update the conversion rules with good/better ideas and variants as suggested by you guys.

Have fun, and looking forward to your feedback!

[Fizz]

All wizards are rare in BR, we'd need 1 wizard per realm, that's all. And I don't see how it impacts the flavour of the setting at all

So would you be ok if your standard party was a group of 4 dwarven wizards?


- the Karamhul (and Halflings following the same logic) go from disadvantaged compared to the other races to equal, that's all. You could argue that it brings in the option to have much more Nordic-type Dwerger for some Karamhul realms but I don't see a problem in that.

That presumes that they are disadvantaged, and i don't think they are. Elves can't priests, dwarves can't be wizards. Humans can only be wizards if blooded, but they don't have other racial benefits of the others. So i don't see an issue here.


Not really, but I had the misfortune of getting into arguments with some of them back in the day and losing, then checking to source material and finding out some of Tolkein use of artistic licence. I recommend the Norse stuff to anyone who wants to use Karamhul in BR, you'll never see them in the same light again.

Well, they're not portrayed as magical in the Lord of the Rings movies. And we all know that is the definitive version. *ducks and hides*. :)


Interesting, we have "traditional" magic from the sidhe and copied by goblins and humans, Karamhul magic could then be a completely different tradition, same effect (under a KISS approach) but very different theme.

Yes, that's what i liked (and still like) about the Vikings book version. The runecasting mechanic was so simple- simpler than standard spellcasting in fact. No levels, no memorization, just simple-defined runes with simple effects (and nothing ever flashy, which helped too).


Indeed, I'd suggest focusing on what BR changed to 2e and mimicking such changes to 5e though, rather than assuming that 2e standard relics also had to be re-imported, of course then we get the question of what was standard and what was non-standard.

That's where it gets tricky. Where does one draw the line? Just because it's a holdover, it doesn't mean it's not relevant.

Given the scarcity of magic in Birthright, and that humans too could not be wizards unless blooded, it makes perfect sense that dwarves should not be- this is not just a dwarf restriction.

So don't think of it as a holdover from 2nd Ed. It's actually a new restriction (per Birthright) upon all the races, one which dwarves happened to have already had.

I'm sure at some point we'll have some threads related directly to this topic where everyone will weigh in. I tend to side with Sorontar on this particular topic. But i look forward to the discussion.

-Fizz

[mortenhelles]

My five cents regarding Dwarves and arcane magic:

Direct conversion: Dwarves cannot be wizards. The original Birthright rulebook is pretty clear on this.

As a variant, allow dwarves to use rune magic. Unfortunately, there is no system for this in the Birthright rulebook(s), so the DM will either have to convert another system, or make up his own. Can the simple rune system in Vikings be summarized in a few words?

[Fizz]

As a variant, allow dwarves to use rune magic. Unfortunately, there is no system for this in the Birthright rulebook(s), so the DM will either have to convert another system, or make up his own. Can the simple rune system in Vikings be summarized in a few words?

Not really, mainly because you've got about two dozen rune descriptions and effects to write up. These are not just borrowed spells.

That said, i don't think such an alternative would make sense to include. It might be best to do a Core book first (the standard conversion), and then maybe a book of alternative rules as a second book. Any alternative that can't be stated in a line or two probably doesn't belong in the Core book.

I base this off of how the 3E conversion was done.

-Fizz

[AndrewTall]

So would you be ok if your standard party was a group of 4 dwarven wizards?

the same as if they were 4 human wizards, or 4 sidhe wizards - that it was non thematic and bizarrely unbalanced, you could however do a PBeM along that lines if you wanted to structure it that way.


That presumes that they are disadvantaged, and i don't think they are. Elves can't priests, dwarves can't be wizards. Humans can only be wizards if blooded, but they don't have other racial benefits of the others. So i don't see an issue here.

The Sidhe can't be priests because all the priests in the setting follow specific gods and the sidhe don't have gods, as has been noted the lack of healing magic is a major problem from a game-play perspective. Humans have their own racial benefits, not least of which is the vast numerical advantage over all others outside of Vosgaard giving them very significant diplomatic boosts.


That's where it gets tricky. Where does one draw the line? Just because it's a holdover, it doesn't mean it's not relevant.

To me the holdover would have to add something to game play, or make the race more distinct, in this case the retention is contrary to the specific elemental characteristics added to the race, more it weakens an already weakened race (in a diplomatic game with medieval mindset the minority alien is always at a disadvantage, while the low birth-rate is crippling if played properly). Given that clerical domains have a degree of competition with wizardly ones permitting the Karamhul magic gives them the possibility of a foothold in neighbouring realms and expands their ability to interact peaceably (in part this depends on how wizards and priests interact in your version of BR).


So don't think of it as a holdover from 2nd Ed. It's actually a new restriction (per Birthright) upon all the races, one which dwarves happened to have already had.

Except that Karamhul are also banned from being magicians, they are left completely unchanged from base 2e, whereas others are merely banned from true magic (barring the sidhe and blooded), as a magician has to hit L5 to be impacted and even realm-level wizards don't all make L5 the impact on humans is pretty trivial in practice, the reduction in numbers is much more distinct.


I'm sure at some point we'll have some threads related directly to this topic where everyone will weigh in. I tend to side with Sorontar on this particular topic. But i look forward to the discussion.

-Fizz

To each their own of course, but I see a conversion as a chance to make a much more interesting Karamhul "norm" that is more playable as a realm. Particularly for BR where the history tends to go "deep" I'd push for Karamhul to have more dwerger-like characteristics than be the somewhat twee tolkein clones seen in every other setting (barring dark-sun), although admittedly I say that as a guy who made shadow-world provinces and realms for players to interact with :rolleyes:

[Fizz]

... they are left completely unchanged from base 2e,

Not quite true. They have some unique qualities from the standard 2nd Ed version: greater and different ability modifiers, resistance to bludgeoning, ability to carry heavy loads, improved infravision. So they are a good deal tougher than the 2nd ed standard 2nd ed dwarf.


Except that Karamhul are also banned from being magicians, ... whereas others are merely banned from true magic (barring the sidhe and blooded),

It feels a bit weird to me, but i can see your point here, since Lesser Magic does not require a bloodline. And i have no issue with halfling or goblin magicians.

I always thought of it as a spectrum- on one end are the elves, creatures of nature and thus naturally tied to mebhaighl. On the opposite end are the entirely nonmagical dwarves- mebhaighl just does not flow through them easily.


To each their own of course, but I see a conversion as a chance to make a much more interesting Karamhul "norm" that is more playable as a realm. Particularly for BR where the history tends to go "deep" I'd push for Karamhul to have more dwerger-like characteristics than be the somewhat twee tolkein clones seen in every other setting (barring dark-sun),

So are you more worried about the Karamhul on a domain/realm level? I see. That explains some of our differences. I've primarily been speaking from the standpoint of a standard gaming party. Maybe this partly explains why humans have come to dominate the continent.

I agree with you in some respects. I think we could expand on their elemental nature more because they are already described as such.


although admittedly I say that as a guy who made shadow-world provinces and realms for players to interact with :rolleyes:

That sounds really fun. Did you ever try an interaction of a Cerilian realm and Shadow World realm that "overlapped" the same geography? I can see much opportunity for... shenanigans. Heh.

-Fizz

[AndrewTall]

Not quite true. They have some unique qualities from the standard 2nd Ed version: greater and different ability modifiers, resistance to bludgeoning, ability to carry heavy loads, improved infravision. So they are a good deal tougher than the 2nd ed standard 2nd ed dwarf.

Which was my (poorly put) point - the "no wizardry" bit is unchanged, but other changes push them towards a more elemental/tough nature. Since I merge all magic to a degree (the source is basically nature, i.e. mebhaighl, or from the shadow world, i.e. awnmebhaighl) and remove the gods (not priests, just the meddling gods, I wanted priests to have politics) I couldn't get Karamhul to be elemental (i.e. tied to mebhaighl) but "non-magical". Possibly (a few) step(s) too far for some.


So are you more worried about the Karamhul on a domain/realm level? I see. That explains some of our differences. I've primarily been speaking from the standpoint of a standard gaming party. Maybe this partly explains why humans have come to dominate the continent.

Very much so, as I've played more PBeM than Tabletop BR :( The breeding point is the real power-issue, but that affects backstory more than PBeM game-play. Partly it is also flavour, in that I have shifted towards the dwerger for at least some of the Karamhul.


That sounds really fun. Did you ever try an interaction of a Cerilian realm and Shadow World realm that "overlapped" the same geography? I can see much opportunity for... shenanigans. Heh.-Fizz

I added a few dozen subterranean provinces, and a hundred or so shadow world provinces. Those varied between: no mirror province reachable; wild (shifting chaos which could be shaped by a strong mind); the classic undead mirror; shadow (realms dominated by evil overlords); and spirit provinces ("good" equivalents of shadow provinces, mainly sidhe, note good does not equal safe). Sometimes a Cerilian province linked to more than 1 shadow province but mostly they directly mirrored 1:1. By mainly mirroring provinces I was spared the need to draft a map which saved a lot of work :rolleyes:

Basically it would have been possible for a small realm to expand down or up rather than merely sideways - effectively a 3D map of the area. Since many of the provinces were easter eggs (of good and bad kinds) they could have had a major impact on game-play if people explored.

I had a realm that wanted to be transported to Cerilia (not easy), a demon trying to steal provinces from Cerilia (would have required a PC to display recklessness to the point of insanity so perhaps 50:50), some domains seeking allies to help fight the other spirit, some provinces of kidnappees to be rescued as an instant population boost, some allies/foes, some interesting travel routes, etc.

Then I through in some oddities like provinces which had unusual time zones (i.e. this province time flows at 1 Cerilian action per year in province, this province has fast time of 1 season per Cerilian action), this province contests all source holdings each season with +6 on the roll, this province allows a single realm spell to be cast for 0 RP once during summer, but cannot be tapped during winter, etc. The oddities might have been trouble to remember though so I planned to use those mainly for NPCs or give them effects that players could track.

[Duck Call Lass]

As it turns out, I was working on my own conversion docs for Birthright to 5e, so I thought I'd share those -- both to get some feedback and to feed my own ideas into the mix here.

Here is my first draft of my Birthright conversion to 5e D&D.

Birthright 5e D&D Conversion Document (http://boldpueblo.com/downloads/5e/5e-birthright-conversion.pdf)

[Delazar]

How to "organize" such an effort? do we just randomy post our ideas, and make a poll? How did you guys went about creating the 3rd ed conversion?

[AndrewTall]

How to "organize" such an effort? do we just randomy post our ideas, and make a poll? How did you guys went about creating the 3rd ed conversion?

The core team used Travis Doom's ruleset as a base, and farmed sections of the game (PC creation, gods, Domain rules, warfare, etc) out to interested board posters. Some other people felt left out (to put it mildly) which was a significant loss for the site.

Now we have the wiki so we aren't limited to a single rule-set.

I suggest that people post on the forum to discuss a particular rule, views on a topic or another, and otherwise they can post their version on the wiki as they go and either ask for input, copy chunks from others/link, etc.

I'd suggest that people target one section of the game rather than try the whole thing, see how it goes, perhaps do a "basic" version others can use and a "campaign version" with their favourite bells and whistles if they want it complex.

Either way visitors, etc can look at the various rulesets and over time a preference should emerge by consensus.

[Duck Call Lass]

Thought I'd posted this earlier but it didn't go through for some reason.

Here's a link to my own attempt at a 5e conversion for Birthright:

Birthright 5e D&D Conversion Document (http://boldpueblo.com/downloads/5e/5e-birthright-conversion.pdf)

[Arawn76]

http://boldpueblo.com/downloads/5e/5e-birthright-conversion.pdf

That's a link to a great conversion document targeted for play at the adventure level.

Created by Duck Call Lass I think it's one of the best adaptations of the setting to a system I've seen. Really takes into account both elements rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

[ncs]

I just wanted to mention that the 5e Player's Handbook expressly mentions Birthright in one of its appendices, describing it as one of the worlds of D&D, which is good as it acknowledges its existence in its first core rulebook! (mention aside of the Starter Set, which only mentions the FR).
On the other hand, the DMG will likely include mass combat and perhaps domain rules, which if simpler than the original Birthright ones may be ideally suited for Birthright and encourage roleplaying in it.

[Duck Call Lass]

Well, they say:

"...Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Dragonlance, the Forgotten Realms, Mystara, Birthright, Dark Sun, and Eberron, among others."

I wouldn't count on that meaning there is going to be any official support for any of those in this edition, barring any other evidence.

For example, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Eberron all get deity lists in the PHB, but Blackmoor, Mystara, and Birthright do not. I suspect that means that they are considered lower tier compared to the others. (Dark Sun doesn't have deities so that doesn't count, of course.)

The only thing that comes close to looking like Birthright support is the orog entry in the Monster Manual.

[AndrewTall]

The only thing that comes close to looking like Birthright support is the orog entry in the Monster Manual.

Thanks for the conversion ;-)

Sadly orogs are another import into BR, and unlike goblins they didn't get much of a makeover. At least we made the list this time tho'

[Arentak]

Well, they say:

The only thing that comes close to looking like Birthright support is the orog entry in the Monster Manual.



Orogs were first mentioned in Spelljammer that I can recall.

[Thelandrin]

I think that linked PDF has some very interesting ideas, especially the Scion feats, but no, Dwarves should not be wizards of any sort, at any point. Warlocks, just maybe, depending on your excuse, but not conventional arcane casters. That would be like allowing Elven clerics.

[Duck Call Lass]

I think that linked PDF has some very interesting ideas, especially the Scion feats, but no, Dwarves should not be wizards of any sort, at any point. Warlocks, just maybe, depending on your excuse, but not conventional arcane casters. That would be like allowing Elven clerics.

The conversion is very silent on whether 2e Birthright racial limits should apply. I believe it should be up to every DM to decide for her campaign.

Perhaps I should make an explicit note of that?

[Thelandrin]

By all means. :)

Whilst you're at it, you could simplify the bonus feat for the scion racial options. Just mention that each race may take one of the Scion feats as their bonus feats and leave it at that. There's no need to spell out the seven gods' feats each time and it'll save you a bunch of space too!

[Delazar]

http://boldpueblo.com/downloads/5e/5e-birthright-conversion.pdf

That's a link to a great conversion document targeted for play at the adventure level.

Created by Duck Call Lass I think it's one of the best adaptations of the setting to a system I've seen. Really takes into account both elements rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Very nicely done! I disagree on a few points, but all in all it's practically all it's needed to start adventuring in Cerilia!

just a question, on page two, under the Shadow Walk ability of Halfling, it says "move to a location within 50 of your current location"

Is that 50 miles?

[AndrewTall]

I think that linked PDF has some very interesting ideas, especially the Scion feats, but no, Dwarves should not be wizards of any sort, at any point. Warlocks, just maybe, depending on your excuse, but not conventional arcane casters. That would be like allowing Elven clerics.

Would you tolerate evil Karamhul Duegar-types based in the Shadow World? :D

I confess to being amazed at the anti-dwarf wizard comments having never seen BR as having that aspect at all, but I'm clearly in the minority so retreat to my homebrew. I'll leave the argument over goblin and halfling wizards to others :(

[Delazar]

Would you tolerate evil Karamhul Duegar-types based in the Shadow World? :D

I've used duergar as corrupted dwarves from the Shadow World... same with Drow as (even more) corrupted elves from the Shadow World.

I often toyed with the idea of having these shadow elves spearhead an invasion from the Shadow World, led by their awnshegh-king, fully inspired by Anomander Rake (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ekg2UzzgStY/T3ytFJveFfI/AAAAAAAAAz0/DbSQ6APDXpY/s1600/Anomander%2BRake%2B2.0.jpg) from the Malazan Book of the fallen.

Edit: more Anomander Rake (http://static.tumblr.com/3f8583e664bb3465d5fa0c25b0b303ff/jj84bga/iMEmfqlhv/tumblr_static_anomander_rake.jpg), because you can never have enough...

[callinostros]

Just uploaded my version of a 5E conversion for Birthright.

[Thelandrin]

Would you tolerate evil Karamhul Duegar-types based in the Shadow World? :D

The Shadow World is clearly Birthright's Underdark, so you could have all sorts of stuff from there if you were so inclined. We once even had a 3.0 tiefling in Anuire by claiming that he was Shadow-touched.

[Fizz]

The Shadow World is clearly Birthright's Underdark, so you could have all sorts of stuff from there if you were so inclined. We once even had a 3.0 tiefling in Anuire by claiming that he was Shadow-touched.

I don't agree with that. I find the Shadow World to be very different in many ways from the traditional notion of the Underdark. The Underdark is entirely deep underground, and is for creatures that live in those depths. Whereas the Shadow World is a twisted mirror of Cerilia- a land of faeries, illusions (Seeming) and the undead. It is a very different feel.

Now, this doesn't rule out duergar, but they shouldn't be included because of a false premise.

Keep in mind i am basing this off of Blood Spawn, which is the closest thing we have to canon. What anyone does in their own campaign is up to them, of course. But for a conversion i think we'd want to stick with canon.


-Fizz

[AndrewTall]

Keep in mind i am basing this off of Blood Spawn, which is the closest thing we have to canon. What anyone does in their own campaign is up to them, of course. But for a conversion i think we'd want to stick with canon.

-Fizz

I think they were referring to the fact that the Shadow World is generally seen as evil, rather than it being subterranean.

Interestingly Blood Spawn contradicts the published stuff which had the Shadow World a dull echo of Cerilia populated by the undead while Blood Spawn is far more varied.

I got around that by making the Shadow world variable, some places shifted constantly - time, space, features, etc all changed (like limbo); other areas were the dull echo, others hold-outs of the spirit world, etc. In my campaign the shadow world itself was fracturing into different planes as the shadow taint spread through it, not helped by Cerilian magic events like Sideath and the Battle fens of course.

[Fizz]

I think they were referring to the fact that the Shadow World is generally seen as evil, rather than it being subterranean.

Ah, i see. Fair enough.


Interestingly Blood Spawn contradicts the published stuff which had the Shadow World a dull echo of Cerilia populated by the undead while Blood Spawn is far more varied.

I don't think it contradicts it per se. Blood Spawn does have populations of undead, there just happens to be a lot of other stuff too. I wonder if the initial rulebook was written from the perspective of what characters think is there (new players wouldn't know its true nature). That's how i rationalize it anyways.


I got around that by making the Shadow world variable, some places shifted constantly - time, space, features, etc all changed (like limbo); other areas were the dull echo, others hold-outs of the spirit world, etc. In my campaign the shadow world itself was fracturing into different planes as the shadow taint spread through it, not helped by Cerilian magic events like Sideath and the Battle fens of course.

And most of that (at least the constant state of change) sounds consistent with Blood Spawn. So all's good. :)

-Fizz

[Sheigh]

There is lots of information regarding subterranean caves and passages delving deep into the Stonecrown Mountains, the mountains of Baruk Azhik, and I'm sure other areas which can act as an Underdark. In a way I'm glad it isn't a traditional Underdark (big kudos for the "evil" place being the Shadow World instead of an Underdark), but there is lots of opportunity for subterranean adventure.

[Fizz]

There is lots of information regarding subterranean caves and passages delving deep into the Stonecrown Mountains, the mountains of Baruk Azhik, and I'm sure other areas which can act as an Underdark. In a way I'm glad it isn't a traditional Underdark (big kudos for the "evil" place being the Shadow World instead of an Underdark), but there is lots of opportunity for subterranean adventure.

Oh definitely. I've run a few myself. In Birthright, the most common antagonists here would be the orogs i would think. But obviously there is room for many others. (I used an aboleth in one.)

-Fizz

[Vicente]

For published material, I think the Shadow World is somewhat similar to the Feywild in DnD 4e. You could draw a lot of inspiration from there.

[Delazar]

U mean the shadowfell?

[Thelandrin]

After some consideration (and the acquisition of the Monster Manual), here's a start on what I'd suggest for Cerilia's goblins.

Goblin Traits
Ability Score Increase: +2 Dexterity.
Speed: 30 feet.
Darkvision: Goblins can see up to 60 feet in dim light as it was bright light or in darkness as if it were dim light.
Stealthy: Proficiency in the Stealth skill.
Languages: Read, write and speak Goblin and one other tongue (typically that of nearby humans).

Lesser Goblin (Goblin)
Ability Score Increase: +1 Intelligence.
Size: Small. Lesser goblins are only around three feet in height.
Nimble Escape: A goblin can take the Disengage or Hide action as a bonus action on each of its turns.
Kartathok's Cunning: Lesser goblins are capable of becoming magicians (or wizards, if they possess a divine bloodline).

Elite Goblin (Hobgoblin)
Ability Score Increase: +1 Constitution.
Martial Advantage: When making a melee attack with a weapon with which they are proficient, a hobgoblin deals 1d6 extra damage if they have an ally within five feet of their target who is not incapacitated.
Kartathok's Discipline: All hobgoblins are considered to be proficient in the Warcraft skill.

(Warcraft is an Intelligence-based skill, incorporating warfare, siegecraft, strategy, logistics etc.)

[Athrasis]

I am glad there is conversion work happening on this. (At least I hope there still is.)
I thoroughly enjoy the Birthright setting and playing style and am also inclined to like quite a lot of things about the 5th Edition. Keep up the good work, I'd say!

(I'm also quite distressed about my GM mentioning possible invasion from the Shadow World, even if it is by Anomander Rake.)

[Delazar]

I am glad there is conversion work happening on this. (At least I hope there still is.)
I thoroughly enjoy the Birthright setting and playing style and am also inclined to like quite a lot of things about the 5th Edition. Keep up the good work, I'd say!

(I'm also quite distressed about my GM mentioning possible invasion from the Shadow World, even if it is by Anomander Rake.)

Things are very quiet around here... I also didn't dedicate a lot of time to this, since it seems our party is still learning the labyrinthine ways of AD&D 2e, so I'm not sure if I should drop something like "ok, now you got 2e right, let's use different rules!"

Would a mutiny ensue?

[Thelandrin]

Possibly, but less of one if you jumped straight to 5E from 2E rather than lingering in 3E first. :)

[Athrasis]

Things are very quiet around here... I also didn't dedicate a lot of time to this, since it seems our party is still learning the labyrinthine ways of AD&D 2e, so I'm not sure if I should drop something like "ok, now you got 2e right, let's use different rules!"

Would a mutiny ensue?

So no, no mutiny as of now. It seems all mail from the site got blocked, just saw this now.


Thelandrin, that would seem a bit much yes. After two conversions like that you start with a half elf and end up with a goblin shaman.

[Marco Fossati]

Here's my personal list of gods&domains in 5E

Haelyn: Life, War

Avani: Light, Life

Nesirie: Tempest, Knowledge

Erik: Nature

Sarimie: Trickery, Knowledge

Rournil: Knowledge, Life

Kriesha: Tempest

Belinik: War, Tempest, Death

Cuiraécen: War, Tempest

Laerme: Light, Trickery

Eloéle: Trickery

[Thelandrin]

With the release of the DMG, the Death domain and the Oathbreaker paladin archetype have been released. Clearly, priests of the Cold Rider (if he/it has any) would take the Death domain, whilst the Oathbreaker (whose powers involve fear and hatred) would seem to be suitable as specialist champions of Belinik and Kartathok (though the latter would need to be tuned towards goblinoids, rather than fiends and undead).

[jkat718]

Hey, complete noob here! :D

I wanted to let you guys know that the DMG has an official "NPC Feature" (aka "How to Make Creatures Into NPCs") for Goblins, and also an official (but tentative) Svirfneblin race for PCs, which you could possibly use as a base for your Duergar conversion. Here they are:

Goblin:
Abilities: STR -2, DEX +2
Size: Small
Vision: Darkvision (60ft.)
Languages: Common, Goblin
Nimble Escape: You can take the Disengage or Hide action as a bonus action on each of your turns.

Svirfneblin: (Gnome subrace)
Abilities: INT +2, DEX +1
Size: Small
Speed: 25 ft.
Vision: Superior Darkvision (120 ft.)
Gnome Cunning: You have advantage on all Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saving throws against magic.
Stone Camouflage: You have advantage on Dexterity (stealth) checks to hide in rocky terrain.
Languages: Common, Gnomish, Undercommon

In addition, the DMG suggests granting Svirfneblin the following traits: Innate Spellcasting (At Will: nondetection (self only); 1/day each: blindness/deafness, blur, disguise self), base speed 20 ft., and replacing Common with Terran. They also suggest giving STR +1, DEX +2 instead of the above ability score adjustments.

The sources for these are as follows: Svirfneblin (Elemental Evil Player's Guide (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/elementalevil_playerscompanion)) and Goblin (Dungeon Master's Guide) (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/dungeon-masters-guide?x=dnd/products/dndacc/dmg).

Also in the EEPG are Goliath (3.5's Races of Stone), Aarakocra (AD&D1's Fiend Folio), and Genasi (AD&D2's Planewalker's Handbook for Planescape). The Earth Genasi gain the following traits:
Abilities: STR +1
Earth Walk: You can move across difficult terrain made of earth or stone without expending extra movement.
Merge with Stone: You can cast the pass without trace spell once with this trait, requiring no material components, and you regain the ability to cast it this way when you finish a long rest. Constitution is your spellcasting ability for this spell.

This is on top of the traits that all Genasi get:
Abilities: CON +2
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 ft.
Languages: Common, Primordial

Might be helpful for making sure the Karamhul have stone-themed abilities. :) I don't know Birthright at all (I came here looking for Kingdom-running guidelines), but I know D&D 5e pretty well, so I'd be happy to help however I can.

[Sheigh]

6ish months into a 5E BR campaign now. I find it doesn't take much of an imagination for me as a DM to apply 2E rules to 5E mechanics. We've abandoned 2E battle cards in favor of the system developed in the 3E BRCS book.

One thing I have found is the adventures written for 2E Birthright (so far tried Seeking Bloodsilver and A Family Matter) do not play well to the sensibilities of my group in their late 20s-early 30s. They seem too railroady for the players, and require a lot more prep work for the DM than they are worth.

[outwardlytactless]

Since the 5e Sorcerer hasn't any place in the Birthright setting, how hard would it be to turn the Scion into a class built out of the Sorcerer? Bloodlines are the foundation for both concepts, and it seems a shame to leave the Sorcerer just collecting dust on the shelf, as it were.
Sorry if this seems a silly suggestion, I've never actually played Birthright and just love a lot of the setting's mechanics (scions, regency, domains and domain play, etc.).

[Sorontar]

Have a look at the 3ed BRCS version of Sorcerer (http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_one_Character_Sorc erer_and_Wizard). That is one way to reinterprete the DnD for Birthright as the true magic has always been rather inherent in Mages already. I am not sure how similar 5e Sorcerers are, but hopefully it will provide some inspiration.

Sorontar

[DerekSTheRed]

Here's my personal list of gods&domains in 5E

Haelyn: Life, War

Avani: Light, Life

Nesirie: Tempest, Knowledge

Erik: Nature

Sarimie: Trickery, Knowledge

Rournil: Knowledge, Life

Kriesha: Tempest

Belinik: War, Tempest, Death

Cuiraécen: War, Tempest

Laerme: Light, Trickery

Eloéle: Trickery

This is the list I came up with
Avani: Light, Knowledge

Belinik: War, Tempest

Cuiraécen: War, Tempest

Eloéle: Trickery

Erik: Nature

Haelyn: War

Kriesha: Nature, Tempest

Laerme: Life, Light

Nesirie: Tempest

Ruornil: Knowledge

Sera: Trickery

[arpig2]

The full versions are available on the web now. Seek and ye shall find

[Thelandrin]

This week's Unearthed Arcana (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/cleric-divine-domains) focuses on three new Cleric domains (Forge, Grave, Protection), so I've updated my granted domains list appropriately.

Haelyn: Life, Protection, War
Nesirie: Grave, Life, Tempest
Cuiraécen: Protection, Tempest, War
Erik: Life, Nature
Avani: Knowledge, Life, Light
Laerme: Forge, Life, Light
Ruornil: Knowledge, War
Sera: Knowledge, Trickery
Eloéle: Trickery
Belinik: Death, War
Kriesha: Grave, Nature, Tempest
Serpent: Knowledge, Trickery
Kartathok: Trickery, War
Moradin: Forge, Life, War
Yeenoghu: War