Class and level less skill based system

[Arjan]

Conventional (mmo)games have class based+talent character progression
I have been tossing with the idea to throw that all over board and let the player character just have a skill based advancing system.

my thoughts behind this is when you start a character, you start a character from zero. Based on the choices you make when talking to people, the quests you do, the discoveries you make you will learn things as you go and develop your character.
if you have a sole spell caster in mind you might want to stick around doing certain NPC's and do their (dirty) work first.
but if you'd like a more diverse character you can explore more and learn other abilities and things to become an arcane spell fighter for or something.

What i want to prevent is that this game is going to be to easy and too obvious. like go to that area and bring me 10 of something, and ill mark on the map where that is.
I am thinking of actually removing things like big yellow question marks from quest givers, so you actually need to talk to people to see if they might have a quest, perhaps they need some convincing as well to give you some quests.

anyway, i am open to all kinds of comments and ideas.
let me know

[AndrewTall]

I am thinking of actually removing things like big yellow question marks from quest givers, so you actually need to talk to people to see if they might have a quest, perhaps they need some convincing as well to give you some quests.

anyway, i am open to all kinds of comments and ideas.
let me know

The poeople interested in 'doing something' prefer question marks because they can skip the 'fluff' interactions that 'don't give them anything'.

The people interested in the fluff will be indifferent as they enjoy the interaction, although they may marginally prefer a less cluttered environment or the idea of having to ask to find out.

Don't know if you could have a player preference system that toggled that sort of thing on/off, but if so it would be the way forward.

[Stormlover13]

And I'd think a product like this is destined to be a niche product...so I say remove all those things you are thinking about removing. Make this a game for people who really want to "inhabit" the world.

[Sorontar]

I tend to agree with Andrew, but perhaps you can limit how close you have to be to a person before you see the conversation marker. This way, a scene will be full of NPCs, not NPCs with markers.

[nickgreyden]

I agree with Sorontar on this one. Toggleable is one thing that I like, but giving it a range helps out too as it encourages exploration, but doesn't punish you for not walking into every nook and cranny.

[Arjan]

cheers, i am sure the point of this thread was not whether you can see a question mark/quest giver or not (although fair point given) but the idea of level and class less skill based system :)

in two weeks i will have a better target less fighting system and also auction hall will be implemented.

I am actually thinking not to go too far away from D&D on this, why change something that is working unless some one comes up with a nice way to implement the skill based system.

for those wondering, skill based system is where you get a skillpoint for every time you do something. so if you fight with a sword, you get skill points in swords and when you level up those skills you get abilities you can use.
Crafting works the same, and like weapons you get abilities/buffs etc through them.

[nickgreyden]

Well, I've never been a big fan of the confinement of a rigid class structure so that is a mark against going complete D&D for me. I would like to see a way to get points for using/doing things, but you also acquire skill points that can be placed in a skill tree. Now this skill tree could be a secondary system that gives an added layer of depth to an action, or it could just directly affect the action in the same way doing the action affects it. For example:

You could have a combat ability called "Swords". As you use swords, your skill in "Swords" it increases your chance to hit, how quickly you swing, and how much damage you do increases.

You could have a skill point system that allows one to directly put more points in "Swords" or...

You could have a skill tree (something that is completely separate from the "point by use" system that "Swords" is in) which includes a skill called "Fighting" which, as points increase, just gives a straight damage bonus to all weapons or an ability to hit. This allows one to try to pick up something like axes later in the game and not be completely incompetent at it.

Just like you could have a "Craft: Bladesmith" ability. As you do the crafting, your ability to do it faster and the likelihood of a higher quality result increases. The separate skill tree could have "Master Crafter" which, as it goes up, requires less of the base metal to be used across all crafting professions such as "Craft: Armor", "Craft: Shield", as well as "Craft: Bladesmith".

Edit: I'm also a big fan of the Mount and Blade: Warband style where you got stat ability points, You got skill points, and you got points to dump into your "points increased by use" abilities. But that is a very delicate balance to maintain.

[Sorontar]

So Arjan, you are talking like how Skyrim gives you skill points for using weapons or activities, but Skyrim only lets you get the equivalent of feats when your personal XP levels up (and even then you can get feats for a weapon/activity that you have enough skill points for)?

For example, say you use a sword a lot. You have 30 skill points in one handed bladed weapons due to this. Your XP has just increased you to level 5 and you get one new feat. You have the choice to add a "+1 damage" feat or a "knockback parry" feat from the one handed bladed weapon tree as they both require only 25 skill points for that tree. To get the "target limbs" feat you need 40 skill points, so you can't use that.

Likewise if you use a particular type of magic and their feats (or a rogue skill).

[Arjan]

When i was talking about a skill based system is more like Nick was saying.

you equip a one handed sword and you start hitting things, then for each hit you get a point or so and you can gain levels in that skill.
So for example when you equip a new weapon you got no special ability for that weapon and you simply statt hitting things, then when you reach level 2 of that skill you get a special ability for example Cleave(AtWill)", then at lvl 3 you get another Repeating strike(AtWill) then at lvl 4 you get an encounter ability Spinning Sweep(Encounter), at lvl 5 you gain a more powerful ability you can only use once every .... time Brute Strike(Daily Power) and so on.
you can either go on giving new skills, or gain a next rank in an existing previously gained rank.

Every type of weapon(Skill) can have its own ability set.

Th same goes for spells and crafting (passive bonuses for example)