Oriental

[Baragos]

I remember some talk

[Baragos]

Sorry!
Something got screwed in the first mail. The question is: Does anyone thing an Oriental "BirthRight" setting ould be a good idea. I know that we still need to make the "oOccidental" BirthRight setting, but the idea struck me.

What do you think?

Baragos

[Riegan Swordwraith]

It depends on what it is you have in mind.Do you wish to introduce an Oriental style culture to existing BR,or do you want a BR inspired Oriental style game??

If the former I would have to say bad idea.If it is the latter I would say it is worth a go,as long as the players understand the differences in Eastern influenced games and Western....

[Arius Vistoon]

idem
answer varies !!!

[Baragos]

I think an oriental culture in Birthright would be possible, but there are already enough cultural difference in Birthright. I was more thinking of doing a seperate world/continent with oriental cultures (Chineses, Mongolian, Japanese, Indian, etc). Perhaps instead of Bloodlines people would have Honour ratings. These could give special powers? One's honour would affect how much regency one collected. And even rogue (Ninja) regents would have honour, even though their loyalties are different.
Any suggestions for races/cultures?
Bloodline or Honour?
Should Honour give special powers?
Other comments, please!

Baragos

[Riegan Swordwraith]

Honor giving special "Blood" abilities,no.But if you have a high/low Honour,it could give bonuses/penalties to certain actions such as Diplomacy,Decrees and what not.

But honestly,I beleive that Eastern cultures would not lend itself over well to a BR-style game.Subterfuge would be a must have ability.I beleive that there would have to be some major work to make it fit right with an Eastern setting.

[Baragos]

Of course intrigue and subterfuge would be important, but I don't think they would be the only areas of a BR-like Oriental campaign. The Shogun-like warlords, fighting for control of the Celestial Empire would need some espionage, yes. But Diplomacy, "Resource management" and direct war-fare would also be important. To give the campaign a further plot element, perhaps "European" travels have made contact with the oriental world. Every regent would have to consider the possibilities of alliances with the foreigners.
Another thing. The oriental setting presented in Oriental Adventures (which would be necesarry for this campaign) features a "shadow world", with dangerous Oni (demons) who try to corrupt mortals. I think that sound rather like the corrupting influence of Azrai's blood and the dangers of the dark Shadow World.
For cultures I would suggest: Chinese-like culture (great monarchy with different clans fighting for the political power), Japanese-like (several minor lords also fighting for power), Mongol-like (the Vos with a slight twist), and a couple of demi-human cultures, e.g. dwarven-like Korobokuru and the rat-like scavengers Nazuni. The other "traditional" oriental races (spirit folk, hegeyokai and the monkey-men, as well as nagas and tengus) are IMO unsuitable as regents, except in very rare circumstances.
The rules will have to be looked at, yes, but I think most of it can be used as is. I think Honour is better than Bloodline, unless the campaign is set in the same world. Ancestry will still be important, as your families honour is more important than your own. I think you're right Riegan. Honour should not give special powers, but should aid in governing, diplomacy, etc.

Baragos

[Bryon]

This sounds pretty interesting, I feel another big project coming on.:)

I think this would work well as both a separate world or in the present setting. It would fit well in eather place.

The Honor belief would really be the bloodline, but since these people were not at the great battle this has been distributed differently. Have the land far from Anuire and may never deal with it as of yet. Add it by the Dragon Islands that have been talked about by others.

I thought there was some sort of Map of the whole BR world around somewhere does anyone know where that went?

[Lawgiver]

I like the idea of a n asian culture. Though, I'm not sure where they would fit into the present world.
I'd add it either as a far eastern continent or as a seperate continent on the totally opposite hemisphere. (dig a hole through the earth to China kind of thing...)

[Baragos]

1) Personally I think it could work well if it was a far off continent. Perhaps some people from Aduria have discovered it, but the journey takes several months by ship on a storm-wrecked ocean. Therefor the contact would be minimal.
2) Honour/Bloodline: These could be the same, just viewed differently by the oriental people. To the Chinese and Japanese Fate decided which families had great potential and which didn't. Those deemed to have great potential (in the eyes of the oriental) would be those with a high honour/bloodline. Thus it would be the deities who "decided", just as the former deities' blood fueled the ruling families on Cerilia. It would be possible to "carve one's own destiny", i.e. start without much honour/bloodline strength and then acquire it through deeds later in life.
3) Sources (rules): I believe it would be easiest to use the classes, etc. presented in Oriental Adventures. Except perhaps for the samurai they are all very nicely done. The samurai could be changed, or the class could have some regency benefits (most Japanese lords were samurai of some kind). The oriental people should probably have their own gods, even though they might just be other aspects of the same gods as the Cerilians worship. Animisn, the belief in natural spirits, would also work well in a BR-like campaign. It is fundamentally the same belief as that of the elves.

Baragos

P.S. If anybody shares the feeling of another big project, please feel free to come with suggestions.

[Baragos]

In an oriental "BR" there should be the same holding types as in a standard BR campaign, but some of them would be slightly changed.

Province Level: Same.
Law: Same. This includes military "law enforcement" in remote areas and established law in more civilised areas. It also represents the power of the Yakuza. I think a Samurai regent should receive a special law bonus. The reason: Samurai were the law. They could act as judge, jury and executioner where ever they went. They had to use this privelege sparringly, as to not anger the locals. Perhaps (in game terms) this special law holding level should have some negative consequences???.
Guild: Same. This includes all the craftsmen and artisans in a province, as well as the public rice fields.
Temple: Same.
Sources: Changed. Both the Wu Jen, Shaman, and Shugenja (classes) utilises the forces of nature. To the Shaman this is most obvious. They communicate with the spirits of animals, plants, rocks, rivers, etc. and gain their powers through this interaction. Wu Jen and Shugenja command the elemental forces of nature. They are less in contact, but still derive their powers from the "source".

As for the different classesand how they acquire regency:
Barbarian: Standard
Fighter: Standard
Rogue: Province, Guilds, Law (half), Trade Routes
Ranger: Standard
Samurai: Province, Law (plus special)
Shaman: Province (half), Temple (half), Source
Shugenja: Province, Temple (half), Source (half)
Sohei: Province, Law (half), Temple
Wu Jen: Province, Source

These are just suggestions, of course. Please comment on them.

Baragos

[Riegan Swordwraith]

Uhhhh,not to burst your bubble Baragos,but Samurai cared not if they were to "anger the locals",as Samurai were Bushi,and Bushi were nobles.And in Japanese culture,BUshi could do what they want.If a samurai thought you did not bow deeply enough to him,he could and would cut you down.

I know that is you were to make this idea a reality,that some things would have to be changed.But overall,I just don't think that a "Japanese BR" is a good idea.

[Baragos]

If I didn't want any critique I wouldn't post this, would I? And you are right. Samurai could do as they pleased, until they did it to someone another Samurai like/was lord of. Then suddenly things could become ugly. Not that most samurai cared about the lives of commoners. But they very much disliked "vigilante" samurai, running around killing their peasants, craftsmen, artisans, and what have you.

Baragos

[The Masetian]

Is it just me..or are we the only two Danes on this board, Baragos??

Danes RULE!!!!!!!!!!1

[Baragos]

Well I don't know if any of the others have a secret Viking hidden, but it could seem that way. Where in Denamrk precisely???

Skaal Masetian,
Baragos

[Riegan Swordwraith]

I have Norse ancestory,infused with Scottish Highlander blood.......Does that count???:)

[Baragos]

Well... Sorta, but it is not the real thing ;)
You can consider yourself semi-Viking.

Baragos

[Riegan Swordwraith]

Why be semi-Viking when I am all Highlander??;)

[Baragos]

Highlander-there-can-be-only-one or Highlander-from-the-Scottish-highland? :)
I think it is funy that in some parts of Scotland they spoke a variety of Old Norse until approx. 150 years ago.
We didn't even retain the Viking version of Danish for that long.
Let me guess your favorite BR race. Is it Rjurik? Hmmm...:)
In my games most play Anuirean or Dwarf. Its kinda ok, but it becomes a little boring after a while. Personally I would like to play a Brecht rogue at some time. They are the perfect merchant/rogue/swashbuckler-type, and I would like to speak with a slight German accent :)

Baragos

[Riegan Swordwraith]

Highlander as in kilt wearing-oat eating,rrrrrrr rollin-bagpipe playin-targe,dirk and claymore swingin-sheep tendin type of Highlanders.My family came from the Isle of Skye,and are MacLeods,which is a Norse line.

Yes my favorite BR race is Rjurik,although I didn't get to play one much.I have had a Braecht guilder,and he did speak with a german accent!!:)

[Baragos]

Ahhhh, the sweet sound of bagpipes in my ears... brings a smile to me face. If I had the money and possibilit, I would learn to play it. I dan't understand why most people hate bagpipes.

Baragos

[Riegan Swordwraith]

Most people have bad tastes!!!:)

[Bryon]

So has anyone started looking into trying to do this? I would be able to get it on the web and help in writing and editing.

Also, I keep hearing about an official map of the whole BR world, does anyone know where I can get it?

[Lord Eldred]

I think it is a great idea to put together but I for one have no time. I am also not sure I would have time to actually use it either!

[Bryon]

Here is a PBeM useing L5R and Birthright. Let's see how it works and watch it grow. Some rules are totally away from Birthright and would have to come back, but others seem ok so far.

http://www.geocities.com/thesawh/index.html

[Baragos]

As I started this thread I would of course be willing to do some work on it, but it would not be for the next couple of months. I would need someone with computer knowhow, as all I do is surf, write and play computer games. The technicalities are a little beyond me.

Baragos

[Chaos Lord Arioch]

I have often wondered how one could apply Birthright in an oriental setting. I believe it would lend itself well, Damiyo with law holdings, monks and sohei with temple holdings, Shinobi and tradesmen with guild holdings.
There is a 16th century Japan game called Sengoku (Sengoku.com). It uses fuzion instead of D20 but has excellent resource material.
There is a PC game called Shogun which is also set in the 16th century.
I thought if one was to combine the info from both those sources a good Japanese/Birthright style game could develop.
There's something about a battlefield full of Ashigiru armed with teppo and naginatas that is exciting.

[the Silver Prince]

I think a BR Oriental culture is a good idea. You could also have bloodlines similar to Cerilia. Perhaps the gods of the Orient took human lovers and their children gained bloodlines. So a Japanese-like emperor is literally the Son of Heaven. Another possibility is that the children of the Oriental gods overthrew them and became the new gods similar to Deismaar. However they left grandchildren with bloodlines which later became the ruling families/clans.

An Oriental culture would probably exist in the Sea of Dragons far to the East but it would have to be oriented toward Cerilia. (Land of the Setting Sun instead of the Rising Sun perhaps.) Perhaps that is how it got its name. Some sailors from Cerilia saw a number of vessels from the Orient flying flags with a jade dragon and they called the new sea the Sea of Dragons.

[Baragos]

I definitely like your ideas Silver Prince. Either of them is good, so perhaps they could be mixed somewhat. Also your Land of the Setting Sun is good. Then you could have the "barbaric" steppes on the eastern side of the oriental Empire. I might start something tangible in a months time or so. If you are interested in helping develope the East then mail me at bruno_kristensen@hotmail.com
It goes for everyone who has good ideas.

Baragos
Unofficial Developer of the Land of the Setting Sun

[Bryon]

To make it seem to mesh more with D&D, maybe we could start with some of the new Oriental Adventures material. Change the map, modify the history and add in how bloodline developed. (Which brings in a whole new idea as to are thier more than just the Cerilian Gods?) . I know there is even a Shadowlands in the OA book.

I would be one of those interested in helping this along

[Baragos]

I was planning to use as much of the OA as possible. I would probably make another map, especially if we want it to be land of the Setting Sun. I don't know about gods. Perhaps we could use the existing gods, but with new names. Another possibility is to use the Fates from OA, having shamans instead of clerics. It could also be as someone mentioned, a group of ascended mortals (that would bring it close to the world of BR)

Baragos

[Bryon]

OK, lets get a group togeather that wants to take on this challenge.

I do not have the skill or ability to do maps, so someone else will need to take over that as we develope more.

I do know how to do basic to medium level in HTML web pages, so I can help out with that.

Made a working web page at http://www.angelfire.com/fl/switala/birthr...jadeempire.html (http://www.angelfire.com/fl/switala/birthright/oriental/jadeempire.html) none of the links work, but you can get the idea.

I think I have a pretty good imagination and writing ability, spelling needs help;) , so I can help there.

Somebody with good Oriental history would be a plus, I know alittle and am a District Manager for a Book Store so can research and learn alittle also.

I would say a design team/board of five people and a larger group of any number to do editing, ideas, assiting, ect... The BR 3e Designers would also be a big help.

Maybe Arjan can make us a Empires of Jade board to get started or maybe the Empire of the Setting Sun? I guess a name for the expansion to start would be good, I was trying to stay with Ian's Empire of Blood name.

[the Silver Prince]

While material can be garnered from OA clans, it would not be possible to use them everywhere. An Oriental BR Land would use pseudo-historical cultures from Earth. So far I have indentified five such cultures (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Mongolian and Southeast Asia). We may need six like in Cerilia. We might use the clans in the Japaneselike culture but not in the others.

[Baragos]

You can of course count me in. Six cultures in BR? I can only count 5, unless you include the Masetians.

I don't know anything about the technical stuff, so that will be another persons responsibility. What I do know (and can do) is come up with things that are fairly consistent with the spirit of the d20/3E rules system. I would also like to think that I know something about oriental anthropology, but map making is unfortunately not my greatest asset, either.
For a name I would suggest something with 'Sun' or 'Jade', but an exact name is still beyond me (I like the suggestions so far, just don't know which one, if any, would be the best).

I won't pretend to take on the mantle of rulership in this affair, but someone has to be the "central" person, so if you could email me we could get started (perhaps set a date for a message board chat, exchanging ideas, etc.).
My email is: bruno_kristensen@hotmail.com

Baragos

[Bryon]

I agree with the idea of at least 4 or five cultures.

I was thinking on the lines of:

China-Emperor and about 10 famlies.

Japan-Multiple small clans

Korea-An alliance of three families against China

Monguls-Vos

South East Asia-Multiple small islands and kingdoms.

Probably about 30-40 Landed Regents. I will upload a start of my ideas on famlies for the Empire and Korea.

I really want to get a group togeather to do this.

I have formed a message board
http://pub25.ezboard.com/bbirthrightoriental

It is a membership board and I have asked alot of you all for help, if I forgot you please email me at switala@angelfire.com

[Ariadne]

Where do you want to locate an OA? I don't hope you think of Khinasi! Khinasi is an arabic advanture, no oriental. Vosgaard, Rjurik, Brechtür or Anuire don't fill the hole either. More cultures don't exist on cerilia, so I don't think it's a good idea...


(May be you can use it, if you play an Aduira campaign or raise the Masetian culture as an oriental setting, then it might be o.k.)

[Azrai]

Oh no - please no oriental setting in the Birthright campaign. This oriental stuff will result in a major cultural and social change in cerilia. Also if you place an OC in Aduria or somewhere else there is always the problem to include the setting in the normal historic timeline.

The Forgotten Realms have shown what problems result in something like that. Inconsistance and master-dependant game rules.

An oriental setting in birthright makes obsolutely no sense. there are enought different cultures.