Varsks

[evilRafael]

Hello there guys! I'm new around here. I'm a recent cerilian as well: my first contact with the world of Birthright was a few weeks ago.

I have a question about varsks for you sages: would a varsk survive non-cold weather? (temperate, tropical, equatorial, hot deserts?)

Thanks for the years of efforts guys.

[Fizz]

I have a question about varsks for you sages: would a varsk survive non-cold weather? (temperate, tropical, equatorial, hot deserts?)

Depends what you mean by `survive'. Do you have the original 2nd Ed rulebook? It doesn't say they can't survive, but that "they don't fare well in warmer climes".

-Fizz

[ploesch]

Yeah, as Fizz (and the books) says, "They are normally only available in Vosgaard, as they don't fare well in warmer climates and don't get along well with horses or other domesticated animals."

So, it's up to the GM to decide what "Fare Well" means. To me, in warmer climes they are lethargic, and slow, and tire easily. The hotter it is the worse it is. So, if they were in Coeranys, where there are allot of storms, rain and ussually overcast they may fare ok, but in the deserts of Khinasi lands, they would likely die in a very short time.

Varsks are really cool critters, but they must not be actual lizards. Lizards are cold-blooded, and therefore wouldn't do well in cold. If you realy want Varsks in warmer climes, use actual giant lizards that wouldn't do well in cold climates.

[geeman]

At 10:31 PM 8/24/2006, ploesch wrote:

>So, it`s up to the GM to decide what "Fare Well" means. To me, in
>warmer climes they are lethargic, and slow, and tire easily. The
>hotter it is the worse it is. So, if they were in Coeranys, where
>there are allot of storms, rain and ussually overcast they may fare
>ok, but in the deserts of Khinasi lands, they would likely die in a
>very short time.

By way of comparison, I`d suggest that varsks would last in terrain
other than that to which they are acclimated about as long as other
mounts might last in terrain that is inhospitable to them. For
instance, if we imagine horses that are bred on the plains being
taken to the mountains where their light coats and thin skin offers
little protection from the cold. Such animals might survive a few
weeks or maybe even just days before succumbing to the climate. A
varsk in a temperate area might live a comparable time. If taken
into the desert it would die off pretty quickly IMO. Probably not
more than a couple of days.

Of course, that doesn`t mean we can`t imagine a breeding program to
make a more survivable varsk that can exist in other climes, or a
similar effort to develop creatures that are similar. There are, for
example, giant lizards ridden by the orogs in some of the published
materials. Also, we shouldn`t discount the possibility of a magical
solution. A ring (saddle?) or potions that allow a varsk to survive
outside its natural habitat.

>Varsks are really cool critters, but they must not be actual
>lizards. Lizards are cold-blooded, and therefore wouldn`t do well
>in cold. If you realy want Varsks in warmer climes, use actual
>giant lizards that wouldn`t do well in cold climates.

Yeah, by way of comparison varsks are probably as much like lizards
as, say, dragons are. A cold-blooded species that lives in snowy
mountains doesn`t really make a lot of sense in biological
terms. There might be some non-magical explanation for their
biology, but they must differ from our typical concept of "lizard"
pretty drastically....

Gary

[gazza666]

There are, for
example, giant lizards ridden by the orogs in some of the published
materials.

Speaking of which, I can't seem to find 3rd edition stats for those anywhere. The closest animal I can find is a monitor lizard (from the MM), but those are only Medium sized and probably unable to carry a rider; they also don't have any listed advancement that would make bigger ones.

[evilRafael]

I thought of a character that rode a varsk that would be really cool. Also, I read somewhere that the varsks cavalries are the best military units in all of Vosgaard. I guess both my cool character and their best military units won't leave Vosgaard much.

I had already thought that before, that the varsks were unlikely to survive for long in warmer climates, but wanted to hear from you guys to see if I was wrong, maybe there was some workaround to this dramatic limitation for the varsks as a mount or animal companion.

I guess I'll go with a horse then :)

[ploesch]

Speaking of which, I can't seem to find 3rd edition stats for those anywhere. The closest animal I can find is a monitor lizard (from the MM), but those are only Medium sized and probably unable to carry a rider; they also don't have any listed advancement that would make bigger ones.
Dire Monitor Lizard?

Add the dire template to a Monitor Lizard, that will give it thesize boost it needs. Then mod it a little to make it the mount you want.

[Fizz]

Speaking of which, I can't seem to find 3rd edition stats for those anywhere. The closest animal I can find is a monitor lizard (from the MM), but those are only Medium sized and probably unable to carry a rider; they also don't have any listed advancement that would make bigger ones.

The 2nd Ed original boxed set included the orog stats on an external page-sized card. I believe that card also gave the basic stats for their subterranean lizards.

-Fizz

[gazza666]

Dire Monitor Lizard?

Add the dire template to a Monitor Lizard, that will give it thesize boost it needs. Then mod it a little to make it the mount you want.
Which dire template would that be? Is it in MM4? It's not in the first 3, that's for sure.

[RaspK_FOG]

Actually, it's a common error: there's no dire template, only the stats for some dire animals, but one could use them as a guideline...

[ThatSeanGuy]

Yeah, by way of comparison varsks are probably as much like lizards
as, say, dragons are. A cold-blooded species that lives in snowy
mountains doesn`t really make a lot of sense in biological
terms. There might be some non-magical explanation for their
biology, but they must differ from our typical concept of "lizard"
pretty drastically....

Well, if I remember the artwork correctly, don't Varsks have a fairly thick-looking white coat of hair? Maybe that explains it-the hair is an extra layer of fat, muscle, and skin that traps heat in for long periods of time, sort of like how a camel's hump can hold moisture.

Going from there, one could speculate that the Varsks evolved from Orog riding lizards that were trapped in the wastes of Vosgaard and Northwestern Bretchur; this could also explain the Varsks legendary toughness, or "Why the Vos think they're worth all the damn trouble.", the extra heat-retaining layers would, I think, be a layer of hair-hide to keep the heat from excaping, a layer of scales because Varsks are scaley, and a layer of heavy fat or blubber to hold the heat in. This adds up to some nice natural armor, even before you consider the whole "terrible war-lizard large enough to carry an armed and armored warrior on its back." part of the equation.

Course, I'm no scientist, and we're dealing with a fantasy world with elves and hyena-men, but I think the idea makes it more plausable, at least.

[Fizz]

Well, if I remember the artwork correctly, don't Varsks have a fairly thick-looking white coat of hair? Maybe that explains it-the hair is an extra layer of fat, muscle, and skin that traps heat in for long periods of time, sort of like how a camel's hump can hold moisture.

It doesn't quite work. Mammals that live in cold climes have fur to TRAP the energy their body creates. Cold blooded animals do not generate their own body heat- their body temperature varies with the temperative. So giving fur to a lizard wouldn't help- it doesn't have any heat for the fur, fat, etc to trap.

You're right of course, that this is a fantasy world where giant lizards fly and breathe fire and case magic. So normal rules don't have to apply. Which is a good thing- i like varsks a lot.


-Fizz

[ThatSeanGuy]

Okay! It was just a thought.

And yeah. I like the name, myself. Varsk varsk varsk.

[geeman]

At 02:07 PM 8/31/2006, Fizz wrote:

>Mammals that live in cold climes have fur to TRAP the energy their
>body creates. Cold blooded animals do not generate their own body
>heat- their body temperature varies with the temperative. So giving
>fur to a lizard wouldn`t help- it doesn`t have any heat for the fur,
>fat, etc to trap.

Exactly. The problem is that fur, body fat, etc. operates both
ways. It traps heat in, but also would also (in the case of a
cold-blooded creature) make it difficult for the animal to absorb
heat. Now, if varsks did something like regularly feed on a
heatsource (bath in and drink from hotsprings, consume actual fire,
etc. and it`s a fantasy game, so why not?) then it makes sense that
they`d need to retain heat more than absorb it. We can assume some
sort of magical interpretation of the process, of course, by just
giving them some sort of semi-magical status. Nobody is all that
troubled by the unicorn`s horn or the pegasus` wings in a fantasy
setting, and a magically warm-blooded lizard isn`t much of a stretch
from those two examples. I do like the idea of an "Ecology of the
Varsk" description that includes some sort of behavior that justifies
their "lizard" background....

Gary

[graham anderson]

It doesn't have to be magicla many animals dont fall neetly into warm and cold blooded. Some examples from a website

Some animals do not fall neatly into the categories of being warm or cold-blooded. Bats, for example, are mammals who cannot maintain a constant body temperature and cool off when they are not active. Echidnas maintain a range of body temperatures which usually lies between 77 and 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit and have difficulty cooling down. Mole Rats are another group of mammals who are unable to regulate their body temperature, however, since they live underground, the temperature of their environment does not change much. Some warm-blooded animals, such as bears, groundhogs, gophers and bats hibernate during the cold winter. During hibernation these animals live off of stored body fat and can drop their body temperatures by as much as 50 degrees Fahrenheit. The Hawk Moth is an insect which can raise its body temperature well above the temperature of its surroundings when it is flying because of its huge wing muscles which generate heat when in use. Bees are another example of insects that can raise their body temperatures above that of their environment by moving their wings rapidly to generate heat.

You could also get around a lot of the problems by having them more closely related to Salamanders and newts rather than lizards.

[ploesch]

I'm regretting starting the warm/cold blooded thing.

My actual point was that Varsks are not likely true Lizards. We don't really need to classify them. Just accept they work. :)

[kgauck]

Dragons breath fire, and other lizards have an affinity to fire, so perhaps the Varsk too has a constitution of heat. Not warm blooded like mammals, who use a high metabolism to produce heat, but like at least some descriptions of the fiery lizards, they produce various biles that combine in heat producing reactions. Unlike more flamable cousins, the Varsk may only produce these toasty biles in sufficient quantity to keep them warm (and maybe a rider) but not enough to spit, breath, or otherwise project fire.

[ThatSeanGuy]

My actual point was that Varsks are not likely true Lizards. We don't really need to classify them. Just accept they work.

Ah, but as nerds, it is our grim duty to try and do just that.

Or, at the very least, its a way to kill an afternoon, no?

That said, moving back to the origional point a little, what about seperating Varsks into "Light" or "Summer" Varsks, and "Heavy" or "Winter" Varsks? The former breed would be a little lighter, the equivelent of a medium or light warhorse, but suitable for more temperate climates, such as Rizlev or Kloznovly(sp?). Whereas the latter would be the heavy war-horse equivelent, but would suffer from more serious effects if they left the cold climates of far northern Cerilia. Different breeds of Varsks would better simulate just how much time and energy the Vos put into domesticating those crazy things, and it'd provide a handy solution to the problem of Varsks outside of Vosgaard.

[geeman]

At 07:57 AM 9/1/2006, ThatSeanGuy wrote:

>>My actual point was that Varsks are not likely true Lizards. We
>>don`t really need to classify them. Just accept they work.
>
>Ah, but as nerds, it is our grim duty to try and do just that.

Here, here! I am going to translate that line into Klingon and sew
it into a pillow for my living room sofa.

>That said, moving back to the origional point a little, what about
>seperating Varsks into "Light" or "Summer" Varsks, and "Heavy" or
>"Winter" Varsks? The former breed would be a little lighter, the
>equivelent of a medium or light warhorse, but suitable for more
>temperate climates, such as Rizlev or Kloznovly(sp?). Whereas the
>latter would be the heavy war-horse equivelent, but would suffer
>from more serious effects if they left the cold climates of far
>northern Cerilia. Different breeds of Varsks would better simulate
>just how much time and energy the Vos put into domesticating those
>crazy things, and it`d provide a handy solution to the problem of
>Varsks outside of Vosgaard.

I confess, I`d never really thought of this aspect of varsks before,
and you`re quite right in pointing it out. Varsks aren`t as widely
diffused through the continent (and planet) as horses, of course, so
they wouldn`t exist in such variation, but the very existence of
Varsk ranches means they might well have as much to do with
domestication as with breeding for particular traits.

In fact, I`d go a step further and mention that the coloration and
"carriage" of a mount is very influential, and a major emphasis of
breeding efforts. That is, riders can sometimes be very particular
as to characteristics that aren`t really described in game
mechanics. We all know what it means when someone says a "white
horse" or a "black stallion." Certain horses are very much in demand
for these kinds of qualities, increasing their value
dramatically. Lest anyone think this kind of thing relates only to
horses, something has always stuck with me after reading the
autobiography of T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia.) He pointed out that one
of his Arab friends had a particularly tall and handsome camel. The
figure this man cut riding his noble desert mount made a great
impression upon his fellows, and everyone envied his ride. If this
attitude translates from horses to camels it`s likely it would
continue on into fantastic, ice-dwelling, quasi-lizard mounts in a
fantasy setting....

Gary