Danigau

[Autarkis]

Discussion thread for Danigau (http://birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Danigau). If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.

[AndrewTall]

Hmm.

I am currently working on a PS for Danigau - the latest draft is on the wiki. The 'final' version is being typeset, having art added, etc by Kay at the moment - so if you spot anything that needs fixing now is the time to say...

[Thelandrin]

I'll take a look after the weekend :)

[Autarkis]

I didn't actually create anything, I forgot red meant "not created yet." So...er..oops. :rolleyes:

[AndrewTall]

I didn't actually create anything, I forgot red meant "not created yet." So...er..oops. :rolleyes: :)

Actually you hit the discussion page - hitting a red link just creates a draft page for you to start to fill - and 'back page' gets you out of it without saving...

Satchkep45 (he who refuses PM's and has no email address in his wiki username) has added a few interesting bits, but sadly I broke the 36 page standard for PS's slightly and so shouldn't add anything more unless the piece is truly great or the need is dire, plus poor Kay has already type-set, etc it all once and then found I'd sent her the wrong version so all her hard work was wasted. :(

I'll send a copy of Danigau to you Thelandrin, but Kay may be working on the final already and I can't ask her to start over again if she has (I've done it too often already). It may be handy though (given the correction's that you have been making on the wiki) for you to post a short wiki piece on the use of apostrophe's (including the non-use of greengrocer's) commas and semicolons to reduce future transgressions, I can't promise that it will work (I suffer from a comprehensive education where grammar was deemed both unnecessary and socially divisive) but at least it would remove the excuse :)

[ShadowMoon]

I was inspired by kgauck's Coat of Arms of Danigau, so I made my version of His shield. So I owe whole concept to Him (kgauck), I just repainted it from scratch cause I have very demanding crew here ^^;...
I drew a Sword behind the Staff on purpose, cause Danigau is rulled by one of Cerilia's most powerful wizards, and added Lillies cause in my campaign I use 'em in Brecht aristocracy as symbol of the old noble lineage. I want to commend kgauck for black tower background pattern, which perfectly symbolizes the capital of Danigau ; Blackgate.

Anyway, I wanted to share my version of the Danigau heraldry...

Old version (kgauck):

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5900/danigaube3.png

New version (ShadowMoon):

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6310/danigaushieldff1.png

If You like it, let me know and I'll put it on Danigau section of BR Wiki...

[ShadowMoon]

In the "Heavens of the Great Bay" (TSR 3129 AD&D Birthright), Blackgate Stormlords (Danigau Knights) have Black Tower on Red Background, so I just added another possible version of Danigau Coat of Arms...

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/920/danigaushield01yp0.png

PS: Book states that Danigau motto is present on their Coat of Arms; it says " Danigau holds its own." in Altenbrecht. So if someone knows how would it look on archaic German or Dutch please let me know, and I'll add it on the heraldry...

Something like this but more clear maybe:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/525/danigaushield011kb4.png

Hm...

[kgauck]

Definatly upload it.

[ConjurerDragon]

ShadowMoon schrieb:
> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
> http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=3763
> ShadowMoon wrote:
> In the "Heavens of the Great Bay" (Birthright AD&D), Blackgate Stormlords (Danigau Knights) have Black Tower on Red Background, so I just added another possible version of Danigau Coat of Arms...
>
> http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/920/danigaushield01yp0.png
>
> PS: Book states that Danigau motto is present on their Coat of Arms; it says " Danigau holds its own." in Altenbrecht. So if someone knows how would it look on archaic German or Dutch please let me know, and I`ll add it on the heraldry...
>
A historical motto in old german would be "Lewer duad üs Slav!" or
"Lever düd as Slav!" - meaning "Rather dead than slave". It´s from
Friesland, the coastal parts of Northern Germany and the northern
Netherlands and would IMO be fitting for Danigau which is fiercely
independant even in the face of the Anuirean Empire at it´s strongest
time invading.
Nowadays germans literal translation of "Danigau holds it own" could be
"Danigau besteht allein"

[Thelandrin]

I think that the white and red optiond may well be symbolic of both ruler and knightly order, whereas the motto & scroll might be used only to indicate the state's arms. Just some thoughts.

[cccpxepoj]

great work shadowmoon

[cccpxepoj]

ShadowMoon schrieb:
> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
> http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=3763
> ShadowMoon wrote:
> In the "Heavens of the Great Bay" (Birthright AD&D), Blackgate Stormlords (Danigau Knights) have Black Tower on Red Background, so I just added another possible version of Danigau Coat of Arms...
>
> http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/920/danigaushield01yp0.png
>
> PS: Book states that Danigau motto is present on their Coat of Arms; it says " Danigau holds its own." in Altenbrecht. So if someone knows how would it look on archaic German or Dutch please let me know, and I`ll add it on the heraldry...
>
A historical motto in old german would be "Lewer duad üs Slav!" or
"Lever düd as Slav!" - meaning "Rather dead than slave". It´s from
Friesland, the coastal parts of Northern Germany and the northern
Netherlands and would IMO be fitting for Danigau which is fiercely
independant even in the face of the Anuirean Empire at it´s strongest
time invading.
Nowadays germans literal translation of "Danigau holds it own" could be
"Danigau besteht allein"

interesting, "slav" in old German means slave, while "nemac" or "nemec" is Slavic word for Germans, and it means " he who can't speak" .
Can you imagine the Brecht words for Rjurick or Vos and vice versa.
Sorry, I know this is a little off topic.

[ConjurerDragon]

cccpxepoj schrieb:
> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
> http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=3763
> cccpxepoj wrote:
> ------------ QUOTE ----------
> ShadowMoon schrieb:
>
>> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
>> You can view the entire thread at:
>> http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=3763
>> ShadowMoon wrote:
>> In the "Heavens of the Great Bay" (Birthright AD&D), Blackgate Stormlords (Danigau Knights) have Black Tower on Red Background, so I just added another possible version of Danigau Coat of Arms...
>>
>> http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/920/danigaushield01yp0.png
>>
>> PS: Book states that Danigau motto is present on their Coat of Arms; it says " Danigau holds its own." in Altenbrecht. So if someone knows how would it look on archaic German or Dutch please let me know, and I`ll add it on the heraldry...
>>
>>
> A historical motto in old german would be "Lewer duad üs Slav!" or
> "Lever düd as Slav!" - meaning "Rather dead than slave". It´s from
> Friesland, the coastal parts of Northern Germany and the northern
> Netherlands and would IMO be fitting for Danigau which is fiercely
> independant even in the face of the Anuirean Empire at it´s strongest
> time invading.
> Nowadays germans literal translation of "Danigau holds it own" could be
> "Danigau besteht allein"
> -----------------------------
>
>
>
> interesting, "slav" in old German means slave, while "nemac" or "nemec" is Slavic word for Germans, and it means " he who can`t speak" .
> Can you imagine the Brecht words for Rjurick or Vos and vice versa.
> Sorry, I know this is a little off topic.
>
Every society has it?s own favourite words for outsiders. Think of the
greek "barbaroi" or stutterers from all non-greeks ;-)
I noticed that the german characters are not shown in my post above
which you quoted. Can the others see the original ä or ü or do all have
some rubbish instead?

[cccpxepoj]

I noticed that the german characters are not shown in my post above
which you quoted. Can the others see the original ä or ü or do all have
some rubbish instead?

all i saw was rubbish.

[Thelandrin]

Look in your Windows Characters Map and use the Alt-Numpad codes you see there. For instance, § will have the number 0167 assigned to it, so you press and hold Left-Alt and then press 0167 in sequence (then let go of Left-Alt!).

A-umlaut is Alt-0196 or Alt-0228 (Ä or ä) and U-umlaut is Alt-0220 or ÜAlt-0252 (Ü or ü).

[ConjurerDragon]

>>> PS: Book states that Danigau motto is present on their Coat of Arms; it says " Danigau holds its own." in Altenbrecht. So if someone knows how would it look on archaic German or Dutch please let me know, and I`ll add it on the heraldry...
>>>
>> A historical motto in old german would be "Lewer duad üs Slav!" or "Lever düd as Slav!" - meaning "Rather dead than slave". It´s from Friesland, the coastal parts of Northern Germany and the northern Netherlands and would IMO be fitting for Danigau which is fiercely independent even in the face of the Anuirean Empire at it´s strongest time invading. Nowadays German's literal translation of "Danigau holds it own" could be "Danigau besteht allein"
>> -----------------------------
>>
>> interesting, "slav" in old German means slave, while "nemac" or "nemec" is Slavic word for Germans, and it means " he who can`t speak" . Can you imagine the Brecht words for Rjurick or Vos and vice versa. Sorry, I know this is a little off topic.
>>
> Every society has it?s own favourite words for outsiders. Think of the greek "barbaroi" or stutterers from all non-greeks ;-)
> I noticed that the german characters are not shown in my post above which you quoted. Can the others see the original ä or ü or do all
> have some rubbish instead?


A bit late I remember that the old german word for slavic people is not
slav but wenden. So the slave in the motto is not a slav in the sense of
slavic. Wenden is used even nowadays for example in names of towns in
Austria or in a slavonic dialect spoken in southern austria ("windisch").

[cccpxepoj]

A bit late I remember that the old german word for slavic people is not
slav but wenden. So the slave in the motto is not a slav in the sense of
slavic. Wenden is used even nowadays for example in names of towns in
Austria or in a slavonic dialect spoken in southern austria ("windisch").

"slav" in old german,most likely came from a latin sclavus( meaning slave,servant) and that name was used in the earliest documents concerning slavic tribes. Because thy were vassals of the hunic tribe of Avars that invaded the roman empire in 6th century.

[ShadowMoon]

So I added Danigau motto ("Danigau holds its own.") on German, since its closest to Brecht language. Thanks to ConjurerDragon.

Danigau motto: Danigau besteht allein.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6075/danigaushieldmottoqk6.png http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9827/danigaushieldtopmottofw8.png


Since the picture is small, text doesn't come up sharp enough. So I made the alternative one. Choice of Shield lies upon our community...

[ShadowMoon]

"slav" in old german,most likely came from a latin sclavus( meaning slave,servant) and that name was used in the earliest documents concerning slavic tribes. Because thy were vassals of the hunic tribe of Avars that invaded the roman empire in 6th century.

I checked it, and its Sclavus for modern Slav, throughout the old world, old Germans used Wenden...

[AndrewTall]

I think that when used as a larger picture the words would be a reasonable size as the motto on the scroll. Along the battlements looks better on the small picture, but I'm not sure it would work on a larger picture - say the front page of a PS.

You did a great job on the sword and wand btw!

[AndrewTall]

OK, I haven't heard form Kay in a looong time so the PS has ground to a halt. :(

I attach the latest draft - the text is probably familiar to people who've looked on the wiki but it looks far better in Kay's draft PS!

If you want a me to email you the province map (a jpeg file that's too big to upload that's drawn by Kay on the same scale as a nation map but with the borders tweaked to fit my presumptions) or a quote chart let me know.

My thanks to Kay (art director, typesetter and for being eternally cheerful - to the point of perkiness at times), Kenneth Gauck (data-mine, sounding board and ideas font), Solmyr (who wrote the original history that I swiped and expanded), and ShadowMoon (who missed the PS but did some great shields that would've gone in if I could have figured out how to do it) for their help.

[Lee]

I haven't read it thoroughly, but I like what I've skimmed so far!

[Lee]

Go ahead and beam me the map, please. I've found some typos, would you like some editing?

[AndrewTall]

Go ahead and beam me the map, please. I've found some typos, would you like some editing?

I found some typo's too - but lost contact with Kay before I could go through them and get the pdf updated :(. By all means update the wiki version http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Danigau and/or email me a list of corrections in word.

PM me your email and I'll send the map, would you like the quote chart as well? It shows the people in each quote chain (although the roman numerals perform the same function).

Similarly Kay (a non-native English speaker) commented that possibly I should simplify the language a tad so if any part is unreadable or otherwise unintelligible let me know. Glad you liked it btw, took a lot of doing!

[cccpxepoj]

this is looking great, wooouu i am really suprised, great work people !!!!!!!

[AndrewTall]

Thanks to Kay and Shadowmoon who are finishing off the PS. :)

I changed the province borders slightly - mostly because Kantswach was ridiculously large, but also to give Danigau a slightly better terrain mix by following natural borders more.

I attach maps of the original and modified borders (both made by Kay).

What do people think? Kay is working on a map of all Cerilia - are the boundary changes something that should be 'PSD only' or should they be incorporated in other maps?

[Thelandrin]

That looks good, Andrew. Now if only I could remember where I put my Havens of the Great Bay for comparison!

[Rey]

Looks groovy!

Now, for cover, it's Player's Secrets and not Player Secret's. And the font used for Danigau on cover looks out of place. At least for me.

62 pages? Are you setting a new standard for PS? :)

[AndrewTall]

The cover is a work in progress - ShadowMoon is way ahead of me on that. As for the page count it was 65 on the latest draft I saw as the artwork and 'shield' layout spaces it out a bit.

Still, if Dhoesone ever gets finished (barring a seriously napalm-minded editor) then it will be significantly bigger, the partial draft was 80 something pages! The trouble is that there are so many factions and provinces that it's a nightmare even just trying to skim them (which is why the PS hasn't twitched in months but someday I'll get back to it).

Now I need to do a final read of Kay's snazzy version of the PS, give ShadowMoon the data he asked for, etc, etc and PSD will be done...

[kgauck]

Doing a PS of the factions and their core regions would make more sense for Dhoesone.

[Rey]

Doing a PS of the factions and their core regions would make more sense for Dhoesone.

I agree on that, especially if it's not tied to one region. Why then bother with stuffing it to a PS of a realm?
Btw, can't wait to see Dhoesone. :)

[ShadowMoon]

Birthright: Player's Secrets of Danigau.


Frontside:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z216/Uhr78/PSDanigauFinal_FS.jpg


Backside:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z216/Uhr78/PSDanigauFinal_BS.jpg

...


EDIT: This still needs to be approved by Andrew Tall (AndrewTall) and Branka Zarkovic (Kay)...

EDIT II: Product ID is made with the idea to represent that this is BRnet community product, and 004 is because I consider BRCS to be BRnet001 product, even tho it doesn't have proper cover and "make-up", and there are PS Diemed, and PS Rohrmarch done before...

EDIT III: Just changed Cover-Backside. Changed background so it can be continuous with frontside while PS is open; minor text edit, ID changed...

...

[Rey]

Nice!

German language on the coat has been approved for future reference?

[Thelandrin]

Nice!! Great work, ShadowMoon! :D

[ShadowMoon]

Nice!

German language on the coat has been approved for future reference?


According to ConjurerDragon, it is correct... Well even if it is not, I can either fix it, or we can ignore it (much easier), cause none said that Brecht are exactly German ^^;

...

[Rey]

cause none said that Brecht are exactly German ^^;

...

We can make them German. It only takes a unit or two of well trained militia and they'll sing it. :)

[AndrewTall]

Looking great ShadowMoon. And very quickly too!

I'm not sure if we qualify as #2 though - Cmalik has done PS Alamie and PS Diemed for example - I'm a latecomer. (Albeit a good looking one thanks to you and Kay)

Now the pressure is on me to sort out my bits again :(

[ShadowMoon]

Looking great ShadowMoon. And very quickly too!

I'm not sure if we qualify as #2 though - Cmalik has done PS Alamie and PS Diemed for example - I'm a latecomer. (Albeit a good looking one thanks to you and Kay)

Now the pressure is on me to sort out my bits again :(

Thx...

Very quickly? haha i thought it took me ages, these few days...

Well we can change ID, just need to know where we stand? Whats our "number"...


EDIT: In download section I found only PS Rohrmarch, and PS Diemed... So our would be 3rd one, or 4th product including BRCS... Can anyone verify that plz?

[ShadowMoon]

So;

I would really like to know what are the BRnet community products, so I can put ID correctly on PS Danigau...

For now I have seen:

BRCS - ID: BRnet001
PS Diemed - ID: BRnet002
PS Rohrmarch - ID: BRnet003
PS Danigau - ID: BRnet004


While someone mentioned PS Alamie, I couldn't find it on our downloads section, just map etc...

EDIT: Of course, PS Danigau is not yet applied on downloads section, cause it is not polished yet...

[AndrewTall]

While someone mentioned PS Alamie, I couldn't find it on our downloads section, just map etc...

I'm not sure if Cmalik finished it, he's been very quiet lately.

[ShadowMoon]

I'm not sure if Cmalik finished it, he's been very quiet lately.

I'll make PS Danigau = ID: BRnet004, cause there are no substantial evidence that there are any "products" beyond those 3 mentioned (BRCS; PS Diemed, and PS Rohrmarch...)

If some other "product" comes up in the meantime, it will have to take ID after "our" PS...


EDIT: Just changed the Cover backside...

[Rey]

I think I have Alamie printed (but it's not a 'finished' PS). I don't remember where I picked up a PS on Ghoere (also a fan work).
I'll look it up when I get from work.

[ShadowMoon]

I think I have Alamie printed (but it's not a 'finished' PS). I don't remember where I picked up a PS on Ghoere (also a fan work).
I'll look it up when I get from work.

I think I saw PS Ghoere somewhere too, tho not on BRnet, and since we are main Birthright hub, it should be here. Besides, "new" BR material is for d20, so I wouldn't use same ID system for both, cause having different systems (unless as variant) in one product-line is confusing...

[AndrewTall]

PS Ghoere is on Bloodsilver.com - although currently I get redirected to br.net when I try to log on to the site - I attach a word doc version I copied from their site; other PS's (Rohrmarch, etc) are around, in some cases on the wiki, but not uploaded to br.net. I was figuring that as br.net products go they wouldn't count until they were uploaded.

[Thelandrin]

I have PSI51's "PS Brosengae" PDF, some of which is in great detail and some of which is really sketchy. I also have Cmalik's "PS Diemed" PDF, which despite the credits was not written in conjunction with Rich Baker.

The PS Ghoere looks good so far!

[AndrewTall]

I also have Cmalik's "PS Diemed" PDF, which despite the credits was not written in conjunction with Rich Baker.

He meant well - and I think we all knew it was 'based on the works written by Rich Baker III' rather than 'written by me and him in collusion'. The legal credit may be incorrect (not many of us are lawyers) but I feel a little bad about not crediting Ed Stark on PS Danigau for example - he did write the base realm description and the original history of Brechtur, even if I've then morphed 2-4 pages or so pages into 60...

Personally I'm grateful to the Cardinal for writing it - I'm sure people could quibble about a number of things I've done with Danigau but I'd hope they still read it in a 'this guy loves the setting and is trying to be helpful, I'll cut him some slack' kind of way.


The PS Ghoere looks good so far!

I liked it, sadly I couldn't copy the typesetting and stuff - it looks better on their website.

[kgauck]

Did you try to save it as html and then load it in a word processor that can read html?

[cccpxepoj]

i found DS of Ghoere in pdf. on my computer, so if someone prefer it in that format.

[Rey]

I'm sure people could quibble about a number of things I've done with Danigau but I'd hope they still read it in a 'this guy loves the setting and is trying to be helpful, I'll cut him some slack' kind of way.

We've always found details from PS, that we do not agree with, negotiable and "bendable". If it doesn't fit into general idea, then you don't use it or make it more acceptable for campaign. It's better to have options, than not having them at all.

I think we could use some transformation of download area to put this stuff there. No one will remember it's here, after a month or two.

[kgauck]

It ends up on the wiki, which is more noticeable. And more editable. The PS's that have been produced are good documents, but not so good that they wouldn't benefit by a once-over from the community. I recently looked at the Ghoere PS (the source for the wiki entry) and saw several sub-optimal explanations for things. It strengthens my sense that I would rather write on the wiki, and encourage others to improve my product than write elsewhere in the absence of such improvement.

[AndrewTall]

True Ken, but I like the idea of writing a book!

Besides it looks so much better with the stuff Kay and Shadowmoon have done.

If I ever finish Dhoesone or write a different PS I'd wiki it when I finished, and probably adds bits that didn't fit on the wiki (yes, I do realise that the page count should not be infinite :o I just get excited).

[kgauck]

Dhoesone is a moving target, since at least two other authors add to that domain from time to time. Writing on the wiki (and the publishing the PS based on the wiki) would prevent what might be the first example of a wiki and a PS that are derived from different sources.

[Rey]

Any help needed on Dhoesone?

[kgauck]

The wiki always appreciates help. Dhoesone is mighty big.

[Rey]

Got ya. ;)

[Kay]

I also think we should have better downloads section... And to put these files (even if they are not final versions etc.) there. Its easier to have some solid grounds for where you can download stuff and not having to read all threads and posts in order to maybe find something interesting. And as for the Wiki, it's great and all but nothing is constant there. People are always changing and editing (I'm not saying that that is not great), it just takes to much time to be up to date with everything that interest you.