Bloodtheft

[Xaphan]

Discussion thread for Bloodtheft (http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Bloodtheft). If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.

[Dirk]

I feel the rules in 3.0 did a fine job with the concept of blood theft. Two things about this topics I am curios about are, Duels between nobles trying to increase their bloodlines and Blood theft on the battle field. In Noble warfare do Nobles seek out each other to fight allowing common troops fight around them or are Blooded individuals walking targets everyone is trying to take down? Either of these concepts makes sense to me. The first would be the result of nobles creating a system in which they fight each other in order to keep the Blood powers in the hands of the elite. In the latter option hardly any Nobles would ever take the battle field, they would be placing themselves in far to much danger by joining the battle. This option however would allow men to drastically increase their own power by surviving battles, a very Vos concept.

[Hrandal]

I'd suppose probably both. I mean, I can't see a devotee of Cuiracen sitting on the sidelines while his mates do the fighting. Looking for duels is a "big risk, big win" strategy, which probably leaves a lot of young scions needlessly dead. Of course, a cautious leader risks appearing weak, and obviously Anuirean nobles are generally quite martial, especially in the wilder areas.

I suspect in a BR setting, it would be quite ordinary for a regent to have a champion to fight their duels (and risk death, and any potential Azrai taint). After all, if the champion accrues too much power, they can always be ordered to cede it to their lord in a ritual.

[kgauck]

Are Blooded individuals walking targets everyone is trying to take down?
If this worked, everyone would have a Vos style culture in which a large body of ambitious men would be watching for a chance to take over and be "king of the hill" until someone got to them. The prize for being on top is so great, I think it would be like the Star Trek episode Mirror, Mirror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror%2C_Mirror_%28TOS_episode%29) where every crewmember seeks to assasinate the captain and take his place (except for the mirror Spock because he doesn't want to be the target of constant assasination attempts).


In Noble warfare do Nobles seek out each other to fight allowing common troops fight around them?
There is probabaly some of this, but when whole realms can be determined by single combat, why go to the expence of having armies? Its a foolish waste of money to have armies if the whole contest eventually comes down to a personal combat. If single combat is important (some partial bump and some partial loss) I think you'd have the greatest chance of people fighting in this kind of dueling.

Such dueling was made more common in the medieval world because the risk was mitigated in that failure was captivity for ransom, not death. Similarly, the normal victory and defeat should not be decisive, or sensible people don't duel.

[AndrewTall]

I think that the social impact of having awnsheghlien raging around should not be under-estimated. Any noble who repeatedly commits bloodtheft (outside of Vosgaard perhaps) is likely to be considered an awnsheghlien by the nobility and priesthoods - even if they don't find themselves becoming one in practice! And awnsheghlien (in perception or reality) would probably be fair game to about anyone if not actively preached against and targeted by all and sundry. In Vosgaard I'd see bloodtheft by insidious means (assasins in the night, attack by multiple opponents on one scion, etc) as considered equally 'wrong' - a warrior would have to 'prove themselves worthy', then challenge one 'proven unworthy' to single combat where Belinik can judge who best deserves the blood of the gods to avoid huge social stigma and thus being subject to constant challenges (deciding on who is 'worthy' likely gives the priests of Belinik and Kreisha a lot of power).

As regards battlefield bloodtheft I'd see the nobles as being a target mainly for other nobles given the benefits of wealth on training and equipment. The average spearman would not run towards the raging knight in full plate atop a huge warhorse lightly! In any event for a peasant with few friends it would be far more sensible to capture the scion and turn them over to the peasants lord (for a rich reward, perhaps even a minor title) than seek to steal the bloodline and survive the enmity of both sides nobles!

As regards bloodtheft on the battlefield the benefits of ransom should not be under-estimated. What is better, the short term gain of a 10 GB ransom / a law holding / minor province or the generations-term benefit of +1 to the bloodline? Would Avan really kill Boeruine (knowing that Boeruine's son will simply inherit the war) or ransom him back for a price to weaken Boeruine heavily - perhaps even to the point that Avan might win the imperial crown he so desperately wants?

As an example of the diplomatic benefit El-Arrasi let Caercuillen live rather than take the boy's bloodline - and see the Khinasi inevitably exterminated by the vengeful (and much stronger in military terms) Anuirean empire and has been lauded as a wise and true ruler for centuries due to placing the good of the people over his own power as a result.

[Getters]

In most of my games I have use a Highlander approach to blood theft my reasons are two fold. First your trying to steal some thing of the old gods so it dangerous to say the lest you try to place a real sharp weapon in to some one heart and it going to get miss. my seconded reason is blood is power in BR in it rawest from and as such if any one could take it we would have 50 small Jaison Raenech.So to coin a phrase you get power for a price.

So how does my method work in game?
so we have Jaison Raenech has just manager to throw the true Heir out the castle now he and best buddy in all the world Terence go looking for daddy Moergen. Because he ill he in bed (ha easy by my stranded you wander try catching the little buggers wean there up and moving )

So Terence kill the last of the loyal guards to the old duke Jaison make some grand speech about make the duchy great once more. And plunger goes the dagger ok this is were we look at what was Jaison bloodline before theft probable minor low 20s because we have no sources material
this part is spec on my half so he stab the old duke the old duke bloodline is a nice fat 36 major ok that one step up form jaison so big blood flash of light window smash door burst open Terence and his guards are nearly blown of there feet and poor old Jasion has been thrown across the room form the blood leaping in to him and he convolutes on the floor. This is the bit that makes blood theft dangerous for any one because at this very moment Jasion is complete helpless for the next 60 seconds the man on the floor might as well be a baby for all his good for.

so let take the other end of the scale Some nobody from the gutter has just got the drop on hmmm Tannen Avan-Calnor this guy blood line is going to be pushing 60+ and greater
so gutter snip jump princely boy on his own no bodyguards walk down dark ally buy him self(ya I no this is never going to happen just imagine with me) snip sneak attack princely boy get a crit and blood theft him on the spot ok bang the whole city light up with light and energy the roof of the close build blast of there lighting ever were all regents in 500 miles no some one with a powerfully bloodline has gone the prince of Avanil him self knows it his grandson(oh gutter snip you dead meat mate)
the gutter snip is knock throw a wall and is out cold for days as he was unblooded form the shock to his system jumping form unblooded to superman of the blooded nobles buy the time he wake up his making best friends with the imperial chamberlain and the princes what his blood back and the man head and his willing to invade the city to get it