Bhaine

[kgauck]

Discussion thread for Bhaine (http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Bhaine). If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.

[kgauck]

In the text of Taeghas, Bhaine is described as holding the capital, Stormpoint, and the castle of the same name. Its pretty clear on the map that Stormpoint is in Seasdeep. I would like to detail these provinces, and name the city that certainly resides in Bhaine, but I think we should make an official decision on this question first. So I've included a poll to get a sense of the community.

Do we go by the map, or by the line of text on p.28 of Ruins?

[AndrewTall]

It makes more sense to have the capital in the rich open plains - but the more isolated and thus defensible Seasedge coast can also be justified.

I am terrible at drawing so its easier for me to excuse the writing than fix the map, but sadly population levels indicate that in Seasedge (L3) the capital city would be little more than a village with delusions of grandeur.

Somewhat reluctantly therefore I go for Bhaine for the capital; with the caveat that Seasedge holds the first settlement of House Taegha in the flight from Aduria, that settlement being the original Storm's Edge and still the fortress of the same name.

As such I put the city in one province and the fortress in the other. By fortunate happenstance that means the only change needed to the map is the addition of a dot and ring for Bhaine (even I can do that).

Locals don't worry about the fact both city and fortress have the same name - to them the two 'Storm's Edge's' are 'the city' and 'the tower' respectively, only ignorant 'furriners' get confused between the two...

Sadly I have now excluded myself from the poll by reasoning that the correct answer the the question 'is Storm's Edge in Bhaine or Seasedge' is 'yes' to both possibilities...

[Thelandrin]

Wow. I'd never noticed that before! While my first impulse is to say that the map is correct and the text should be altered, it would make most sense for the capital to be a small city in Bhaine, rather than a small town in Seasdeep. Perhaps Stormpoint (in Seasdeep) is the oldest settlement in Taeghas, but Stormpoint City (to be added to Bhaine) is Taeghas' capital.

(Seasedge is the capital province of Boeruine, incidentally.)

[Lawgiver]

I vote both. :D

Stormpoint is the capital city of antiquity. It is now largely a "summer home" and temporary captial for 4 months of the year. But rather than endure the winter winds and spring time rainstorms the royal family moves their affairs inland to the bustling province of Bhaine.

[kgauck]

The notion that a capital should be a large city and not away from cities is very modern. The aristocracy are the country power, the middle class (and guilds) run the cities. Kings stayed away from cities as much as possible and nobles more so. The medieval towns that grew up around the kings eventually prompted kings to move out of town and seek residences in the country. The lifestyle of aristocrats and monarchs is a rural lifestyle, with hunting, riding, and such sports central, not coffee houses, plays, and concerts (which dominate middle class amusements).

Selecting the largest city for the capital seems opposite of what should be, unless Taeghas is at that moment where the count is looking to build his Versailles outside the city.

Further, the map is a plain reference. To declare that the map is wrong makes the most basic reference in the game incorrect. Its an accident that I happened across the reference to Bhaine in the text. Its an obscure reference and easy to over look. The maps much less so.

We are in effect replacing the old text with a more complete and developed text on the wiki. Leaving the old text behind is actually part of the project of the wiki, since there is so much contradictory (case in point) and unclear material. But we are not making new maps, so to privileged the text over the map creates a kind of insider knowledge that we should avoid if we are recruiting new players.

I'm glad I asked, because I could not have anticipated any good reason to select Bhaine over Seasdeep.

[vota dc]

A good place should be between Bhaine and Seasdeep,in the gulf.Is protected from the forest and the hills,and is not too far from Bhaine's fields.

[Autarkis]

I would keep with Bhaine. The map is inconsistent in many other places.

For example, the most glaring, besides what you pointed out, is Sorentier being a city in a 1/4 province of Sorelies, Alamie. I would assume less editing and oversight was given to the map and more to the written material (though there are obviously still mistakes with the written material but that is one of the reasons we love Birthright. =P)

[kgauck]

So we need to make new maps?

[cyrano24100]

I'd say Seasdeep;keep the map. Seasdeep (3/4) is still somewhat populated (most Rjurik capitals are no more than level (3) or (4) for example). You could explain it by saying that the old large province of Bhaine was split-up in two! with Seesdeep(3/4) keeping the capital though Bhaine(6/0) keptmost of the populated fertile lands... that way the book could be right! (just refering to"old" bhaine)

[AndrewTall]

I would keep with Bhaine. The map is inconsistent in many other places.

For example, the most glaring, besides what you pointed out, is Sorentier being a city in a 1/4 province of Sorelies, Alamie. I would assume less editing and oversight was given to the map and more to the written material (though there are obviously still mistakes with the written material but that is one of the reasons we love Birthright. =P)

I thought that Sorentier was a fortress - not a city. It makes much more sense that way - and fits the PS Tuornen as well.

That said the map seems to get several province boundaries wrong (the Zweilunds being 4 provinces not, say 2? Svinik's swamp spread over 4 provinces instead of being one itself? Tuarheviel's source levels?) means we have to keep the city of Anuire as an anomalous 'city-province', and so on. It is however far easier to correct text than a map - barring help from Kay, Shadowmoon and other artistic forum members.