New 4E Races

[ThatSeanGuy]

I didn't see a thread for brainstorming on good ways to intigrate the new races in 4E, so I figured we could use one.

Tieflings: I think the simplest way to bring these guys in is to have them be descendents of powerful Awnshaghen or other corrupt bloodlines. It plays into the whole "Sins of the father, not you." schtick of the Tieflings, while tieing them to Birthright's whole bloodline theme. Personally, I don't mind there being devils in Birthright, they add to the midevial Eurasia feel more than they detract from it, but I figure keeping the option loose is best.

Dragonborn: These guys were tricky, but I think you'll like this: They're what's left of the free Masteans. The Serpent lied to the world about just what happened to his people; the last Masteans were herded to the Serpent's island where he preformed foul experiments on their blood in an attempt to breed a race of super-soldiers with which it would conquer the world. They were released early when one of the legendary true dragons of Cerilia learned that the Serpent slew one of its siblings to power his vile experiment and attacked the Serpent's island; the majority of Dragonborn reject the Serpent and everything the awnshaeghen stands for, though some do believe that it is their destiny to rule Cerilia as a superior, hand crafted species.

Eladrin: For me, these fellas were the hardest. Cerilia's elves were allready pretty darn Eladrin, after all. Then I remembered Tuar Anwyn, and it came to me: The Eladrin were groups of elves who, rather than submit to a human-dominated Cerilia, journeyed into the Shadow World/Shadowfell, hoping to force a perminant path to the Feywild. It didn't work out. Hundreds of harrowing years later, the Eladrin returned to Cerilia, changed on a spiritual level by their journey; some renounced their bitterness, joining their forgiving elven cousins and even coming to live in some of the more civilized human realms. Others claim to be of finer stock than any current elf ruler, muttering about dirt-blooded commoners and trying to sieze power, if not outright rulership, of their domains; Lullibright was the first to fall, but may well not be the last. Finally, a group of Eladrin are rumored to have sworn allegiance to a twisted awnshaeghen known only as 'The Demon Queen of Spiders', a bitter creature who's creed of hate against any race that isn't Eladrin has human, goblin, dwarf and elf telling stories of nightmarish raids by these 'dark elves', these 'Drow'.

The return of the Eladrin could mean a return to greatness for the elven nations of Cerilia...or the final fall of those proud peoples. Only time will tell.

[kgauck]

Since I'm not ill disposed to being a wet blanket, I'll point out that in other threads the general plurality seems to favor not introducing new races. Finding a place for every new bell and whistle that comes along dilutes the setting into just another niche in the overal D&D universe with but a faint wiff of distinction, rather than being some place special and distinct.

That said, as long as no one is expecting a warm welcome, I say have at. It never hurts to consider these things.

And finally, dragonborn=hydrakin.

[Thelandrin]

I particularly think that Drow in Cerilia is a very bad idea :(

[AndrewTall]

the elves of Tuar Annwyn could be the local equivalent of drow - some may be tainted with the Shadow World for example. They'd probably be better off built from a different base however.

Strictly a drow (well, their body) was in Warlock of the Stonecrowns, they don't appear anywhere else in BR canon, and have no apparent place in Warlock, but they, along with an equally out of place Dracolich are written in the module.

[irdeggman]

I worry that this would go the way of Eberron. "Everything in D&D has a place in Eberron".

That sort of logic detracts from what makes a setting to me.

Why only look at the races in the PHB? Every setting introduces new races?

So why not look at the PHB races for comparisons but yet keep the setting the way it was envisioned - races are different there.

[bbeau22]

We don't have to go crazy with adding all of the races. Tiefling really doesn't have a good spot certainly not the dragonborn simply because of the dragon situation in Birthright.

Now I have added I do think that Eladrin and Elves can both be considered elves ... different types from different parts of the world, much how there are different human races. I think this is how I would do it in my campaigns.

If you really wanted to add Tieflings then make them a race that lives on the shadowworld. Maybe a few have made it out and are starting trouble.

[Wilenburg]

with so little done with the shadow world it would be cool to develop that it could be a twited version of what the rest of cerilia considers to be human, or it could be another part of cerilia like the ancient place were humans came from that were making packs with azrai. With that arguement can also be applied to the warlock there are at least 2 other continents that were never develop and Raesane crated a very good outline for a second one and the third one no has touch hardly at all.

They are just some possibilities that could be done with the new races, but the biggest thing is it should be written so the DM can make desicions for their campaign. That was the biggest thing I enjoyed about 2nd the vague outline meant the DM can add detail and make each realm in the world unique.


I worry that this would go the way of Eberron. "Everything in D&D has a place in Eberron".

That sort of logic detracts from what makes a setting to me.

Why only look at the races in the PHB? Every setting introduces new races?

So why not look at the PHB races for comparisons but yet keep the setting the way it was envisioned - races are different there.

He does have a point instead of trying to make everything fit from every other dnd setting just let it be up to the DM to make it there preference.

[geeman]

If there`s a big need to introduce the hydrakin as a 4e Birthright
race I`d go first to the lizardfolk write up in the new MM before
turning to the dragonborn. First off, the original idea seemed to be
closer to the 2e version of lizardmen, and the lizardfolk are the
updated version of that original idea. Secondly, the write ups
describe more much similar creatures--swamp dwellers, lizards (as
opposed to magical beast/dragon) relationships, insular, etc.

BR elves really need their own write up in a 4e conversion. A few
characteristics from either the 4e elven races are apt, but they
aren`t one or the other in particular.

Gary

[kgauck]

We don't need the hydrakin. I prefer not to use exotic races in BR, and would like to either run all human, all dwarf, or all elf. I rather think that the inclusion of races like the dragonborn and tiefling are based entirely on "kewl" factor more than anything else.

[Vicente]

I wouldn't add tieflings or dragonborns to the setting, they didn't exist in Birthright 2e and the setting is not changing in the conversion, so there's no good way to put them in.

[ShadowMoon]

Dragonborn and tieflings as core player races are for WoW kids, better reserved for special encounters...

Let's keep Birthright mature plz...

[ThatSeanGuy]

let's keep Birthright mature plz...

I'm not even going to say anything.

Anyway, I can take a hint. Sorry to have wasted everyone's time with my ideas.

[Thelandrin]

You're not wasting anybody's time. The wiki is formed by communal consent, so no idea is a bad one... well, flying ninja space gnomes with laser-eyes might be, but still! :)

[Sorontar]

I would like to say that the most obvious way to consider how "playable" a potential race is would be to consider how welcome they would be in the "existing" Cerilian cities and whether the race themselves have cities and realms that "liaise" with other realms. If negatives to both, then PCs of this race would be treated as monsters/awnies by any community they encountered so they are shouldn't be considered as "standard" PC classes. It would need a major rewrite of Aebrynis history and cultures plus a major change in the Atlas for such things to make sense.

So I would say that a race that has horns on its head or a tail or scaley skin but doesn't have its own cities and law holdings, is not a goer, unless you want to redesign Birthright world as we know it. I suspect that is certainly not what we want to be forced to do for BRCS 4ed. We want to slot the existing Birthright into new editions, not redesign Birthright.

However, as NPC regents, they might be a goer. I mean, look at all the Awnie regents we have now. They certainly wouldn't have worked well as a "standard race" but have bullied and forced their way to where they are today, often changing into their Awnie form in the process.

Sorontar.
ps. I don't know much about how D&D 4ed distinguishes between Elf and Eldarin, but could we twist them into Sidhe and Fey (i.e. Cerilian and SW)?

[Gheal]

All playable BR races (cerilian elves, dwarves, halflings and 5 human races) are not from PH. Even cerilian goblins and orogs are different. And I prefer to keep it that way.

[geeman]

At 06:11 PM 6/22/2008, Sorontar wrote:

>ps. I don`t know much about how D&D 4ed distinguishes between Elf
>and Eldarin, but could we twist them into Sidhe and Fey (i.e. Cerilian and SW)?

I`ve sat down to do a little converting of these races in particular,
and the difference between the 4e elf and eladrin is along the lines
of what we used to call high elves or grey elves and sylvan elves or
wood elves. When it comes to a 4e BR conversion, we need to bear in
mind that in BR there are no wood elves. The Sidhe aren`t "wild" in
the barbarous sense, which is how those D&D elves are often portrayed.

There aren`t grey or high elves either, but the Sidhe might be seen
as the highest of high elves, and as I did a first draft of an
updated race it looks more like the eladrin than elves. Some of the
abilities might mix, of course, but it`s hard to imagine a Cerilian
elf "grant[ing] non-elf allies within 5 squares of you a +1 racial
bonus to Perception checks" the way elves do....

Half-elves seem to need some tweaking too for our purposes. I should
have something readable in the next week or so. I`ll post it when I
get a chance.

Gary

[ShadowMoon]

I'm not even going to say anything.

Anyway, I can take a hint. Sorry to have wasted everyone's time with my ideas.

sorry I sounded harsh, it was aimed at WotC, not You... by all means, share your ideas and thoughts freely, as I have ^^;

i just get really frustrated seeing how capitalism destroys and trashes the essence of RPG, and turns it into pen & paper WoW-like junk fun hoping to get extra pennies from moms and dads, and consumer slave kiddies...

[kgauck]

i just get really frustrated seeing how capitalism destroys and trashes the essence of RPG, and turns it into pen & paper WoW-like junk fun hoping to get extra pennies from moms and dads, and consumer slave kiddies...

Because the gaming world in socialist countries and the pre-industrial world is so very rich and broad.

[ShadowMoon]

Because the gaming world in socialist countries and the pre-industrial world is so very rich and broad.


You should know better what I meant by mentioning capitalism...

[kgauck]

I do not.

The purpose of any business is to reach the largest revenue source it can. If it doesn't, it risks being eclipsed by a new company that does. Relentlessly pursuing improvement is the source of material improvements. Individual businesses may jump the tracks from time to time and offer us a bad product, or presume that the future market lies in some wrong location, but capitalism itself is the golden goose that is entirely responsible for producing a leisure hobby industry aimed at a small percentage of the buying public.

[ShadowMoon]

you would have to approach this out of the box, to understand...

nvm, just my personal point...


so to track back to subject, this time more "considerate"...

I don't think Birthright would be the same with having Dragonkin and/or Tieflings as core player races...

[vota dc]

I particularly think that Drow in Cerilia is a very bad idea :(

I am agree.Regular elves in Cerilia are already wild and racist,with an evil leader such Rhuobhe they are just evil like the drow.

These new races are good for NPC in D&D,not for the player.A dragonborn should be a monster.Playing as a dragonborn sounds....sad....who is a dragonborn?The poor son of a human mother raped by a dragon?

If we need new playable races on Birthright we have already goblins (and even hobgoblins and bugbear),orogs,gnolls and cobolds.The problem is with bugbear,gnolls and orogs:they are too strong.

[geeman]

At 12:05 PM 6/23/2008, vota dc wrote:

>These new races are good for NPC in D&D,not for the player.A
>dragonborn should be a monster.Playing as a dragonborn
>sounds....sad....who is a dragonborn?The poor son of a human mother
>raped by a dragon?

I could see an awnshegh or ershegh that was some sort of dragon based
character. I`ve often been tempted to write something like that
up. However, dragons have such an iconic, nearly mythical, role in
Birthright that I think it would be a bad idea to create a
dragon-based awn-/ershegh. There is a good reason why they didn`t
have such a being in the original materials. It would dilute the
significance of those creatures in the setting. There is "The
Dragon" as a regent, but his/er actual origin, purpose, etc. is left
open. I`ve long been mulling over an awnshegh write up (named
"Tyrannus") who is based on a T. Rex. I think that`d be pretty
doable--and even pretty cool--but that`s as close to a dragon as I`d get.

Similarly, I could see an awnshegh who had tiefling characteristics,
or eveb a character who was an actual tiefling from another
world/plane and had somehow become trapped on Cerilia. I don`t think
including such a character would be a bad idea at all. That could be
done in an interesting way that keeps the setting`s dynamics
intact. It could even mesh well with existing materials. A whole
race, though.... That`d be a problem.

>If we need new playable races on Birthright we have already goblins
>(and even hobgoblins and bugbear),orogs,gnolls and cobolds.The
>problem is with bugbear,gnolls and orogs:they are too strong.

Yeah, let`s hear it for goblins as a Birthright player race! I`m all
for that. In fact, I think any of the races you listed should be
playable, no matter how powerful they might be. I`d even allow
someone to play something like a giant if the adventure/campaign
suited such a thing.

For that matter, if someone wanted to play a hydrakin in a BR
campaign I was running I`d probably allow that too. I`d write the
race up in a way that differed from hydrakin, but that`s largely a
matter of mechanics. Similarly, if someone made up a sort of
cat-race who were descendants of the Sphynx, I`d support that. A
player could take on a member of the Itave, or one of the
sahuagin-based worshippers of the Kraken.

However, in a campaign where it`s relatively unusual to see an elf
out of his forests, such a player would have to be fully aware of
what it was they were taking on. Nobody playing a hydrakin is going
to be able to walk down the streets in a Cerilian city without people
staring, slamming doors and otherwise reacting badly. He`d be as
likely to be chased out of a small town as allowed to pass
through. In Vosgaard he`d be a target just because warriors want to
have bragging rights. ("I once killed this walking
varsk-man!") Such characters should be recognized as rare, even
freakish in Birthright, and treated appropriately.

Gary

[AndrewTall]

Nobody playing a hydrakin is going to be able to walk down the streets in a Cerilian city without people staring, slamming doors and otherwise reacting badly. He`d be as likely to be chased out of a small town as allowed to pass through. In Vosgaard he`d be a target just because warriors want to have bragging rights. ("I once killed this walking varsk-man!") Such characters should be recognized as rare, even freakish in Birthright, and treated appropriately.

Gary

Yup, that's the problem for poor old dragonkin. I'd expect a dwarf or elf to be treated similarly (assuming that they are recognised as non-human) - or a Vos in a civilised realm, and priest of any god bar the dark two in Vosgaard, etc, etc. One thing I like about BR is that racial and cultural differences are not blithely overlooked - PC's are often more special in accepting 'freaks' than they ever are in other ways engendering party loyalty. In earthdawn I had similar problems with obsidmen - fortunately for them popular superstition held that it's bad luck to hit an obsidman, but that didn't help the obsidmen to book passage on boats, a room at an inn, etc.

A particular point I'd make is that anyone looking demonic risks being considered an awnshegh - and thus an evil, soul-destroying flesh eating monster. I can easily see a dragon-kin being shunned by the villagers - and promptly hunted down by the local lord/priest with a posse. Although the roleplaying of a BR nonhuman is not quite in the Earthdawn league of 'don't act like a horror', imho in the BR setting the hatred of awnshegh should not be under-estimated. Everybody knows (and the priests likely thunder it from the pulpits regularly to stop them forgetting) that demons of Azrai walk the land and those who commit great sins are twisted by the gods into monstrosities - looking monstrous is pretty much proof in such a society that you are monstrous.


Shadowmoon, WOTC's decision to 'make a new game' with 4e rather than upgrading 3e is not capitalism, it's just abysmal marketing, lack of understanding of the game, and a failure to consider the existing customer base in a desperate attempt to reach out to a new (wider) set of customers. Capitalism is mostly just respect for property rights - everything else is more or less optional, or grows from that basic recognition. Crass marketing is only capitalist in the dismemberment of the residual assets during receivership.

IMHO WOTC probably should have called 4e D&D tactical, leaving themselves open to bring out D&D world-builder and D&D legends for the simulationist and story-teller market segments if sufficient demand existed. As it is they appear to have alienated a significant area of their fan base, tried to barge into a market (computer games) in which they are at a significant disadvantage (they are not selling a computer game), and damaged a significant product line (3e) to boot in bringing out 4e.

If 4e works (i.e. is significantly more profitable than 3e) then congratulations, WOTC are visionaries - in time a new game company will fill the void that players like me see yawning at the heart of 4e and position itself in the niche vacated by WOTC (a playable version of hero-system or white wolf mayhap?) and no doubt someone will make a BR conversion for their system. We shall see.

[Vicente]

Dragonborn and tieflings as core player races are for WoW kids, better reserved for special encounters...

Let's keep Birthright mature plz...

Again the WoW argument... WoW average player age is around 28.5 years (or was some years ago, I suppose it has stayed more or less the same). Not sure what's the average age on these forums for example, but I bet they aren't so different (probably a little older here, but that's it).

[geeman]

At 02:20 PM 6/23/2008, AndrewTall wrote:

>>Nobody playing a hydrakin is going to be able to walk down the
>>streets in a Cerilian city without people staring, slamming doors
>>and otherwise reacting badly. He`d be as likely to be chased out
>>of a small town as allowed to pass through. In Vosgaard he`d be a
>>target just because warriors want to have bragging rights. ("I
>>once killed this walking varsk-man!") Such characters should be
>>recognized as rare, even freakish in Birthright, and treated appropriately.
>
>Yup, that`s the problem for poor old dragonkin. I`d expect a dwarf
>or elf to be treated similarly (assuming that they are recognised as
>non-human) - or a Vos in a civilised realm, and priest of any god
>bar the dark two in Vosgaard, etc, etc. One thing I like about BR
>is that racial and cultural differences are not blithely overlooked
>- PC`s are often more special in accepting `freaks` than they ever
>are in other ways engendering party loyalty.

Exactly. The standard races are often at odds in Birthright. Such
prejudices even exist within racial groups such as those from
Boeruine having a bias against those from Avanil. Etc. (There are
too many such animosities to list....) Many elves won`t even
tolerate humans in their presence, and many humans aren`t
particularly more egalitarian.

So the big picture is that if a DM wants to allow a player to take on
something even more peculiar than the standard BR races then he
should let that player know that reactions are going to be
extreme. Birthright NPCs are sometimes moved to violence by standard
PC races, so imagine how much less likely they would be to accept a
humanoid lizard.... Where the most common reaction to certain
standard races in BR might be "We don`t serve their kind here!"
someone who wanted to play something even stranger would be more
likely to hear "What is that thing? Kill it!" several times before breakfast.

Gary

[Capricia]

Again the WoW argument... WoW average player age is around 28.5 years (or was some years ago, I suppose it has stayed more or less the same). Not sure what's the average age on these forums for example, but I bet they aren't so different (probably a little older here, but that's it).

Averages are wonderful things. According to such calculations everyone on the planet has a fraction of a child and owns a hyena.

I've played online games like WoW, Shadowbane and Guild Wars for a number of years. The comparison of 4e to them is perfectly valid in my opinion. They've made this edition faster, leaner and with a bias towards killing things instead of role playing with them. That is exactly what a money making online video game is aiming for.

[kgauck]

IMHO WOTC probably should have called 4e D&D tactical, leaving themselves open to bring out D&D world-builder and D&D legends for the simulationist and story-teller market segments if sufficient demand existed.

This is brilliant marketing, Andrew. Based on surveys they did when bringing 3e out, they claim that whether you divide gamers using 3 categories or 4 or 5, you find that the categories are pretty evenly divided. Based on my experience I believe this. What I think we might need more than anything is the chapter that explains how to play one game with D&D tactical, world-builder, and legends. How to get these players together and get them to all play their own games together.


As it is they appear to have alienated a significant area of their fan base, [...] and damaged a significant product line (3e) to boot in bringing out 4e.

Is this a New-Coke moment? We shall see.

[Vicente]

Averages are wonderful things. According to such calculations everyone on the planet has a fraction of a child and owns a hyena.

I've played online games like WoW, Shadowbane and Guild Wars for a number of years. The comparison of 4e to them is perfectly valid in my opinion. They've made this edition faster, leaner and with a bias towards killing things instead of role playing with them. That is exactly what a money making online video game is aiming for.

Sorry but you miss the point completely: average age on WoW indicates that not only children tend to play that game (as with most MMORPGs). About the rest I disagree and I have played WoW and GW a lot too (and several other online games), the experience of playing DnD 4e has been so far totally different than the experience of playing those games, even if they have some points in common (as they have with 3e, or do you think feat trees are too different from talent builds for example? Or the heavy itemization of 3e, does it sound familiar?).

[Rey]

It's absurd to calculate the average age of players in WoW and BR since it has nothing to do with it.
It's the quantity of the people that counts. Birthright community has several thousand members, count how many of them are active. Now compare it to WoW.

I've received my 4e books few days ago, couldn't help it not to see some characters resemble those found in WoW. Pictures in PHB or DMG with monsters wielding the swords that don't look anything like the swords, they look like some horrid crossbreeds between swords and chunks of metal twisted and banded in every way to make them scarier. Monsters in MM are from the worst nightmares of nine hells. Even wolves and rats have bloody spikes on them cause they'd be like cute little puppies and hamsters compared to the others.

[Vicente]

It's absurd to calculate the average age of players in WoW and BR since it has nothing to do with it.
It's the quantity of the people that counts. Birthright community has several thousand members, count how many of them are active. Now compare it to WoW.

You miss the point too: age has to do if you talk about kids and mature as quoted. Quantity is another factor but it's not related to the original post or the answer.


I've received my 4e books few days ago, couldn't help it not to see some characters resemble those found in WoW. Pictures in PHB or DMG with monsters wielding the swords that don't look anything like the swords, they look like some horrid crossbreeds between swords and chunks of metal twisted and banded in every way to make them scarier. Monsters in MM are from the worst nightmares of nine hells. Even wolves and rats have bloody spikes on them cause they'd be like cute little puppies and hamsters compared to the others.

Are you saying that exagerated weapons, armors and monsters, and things like that, come from WoW?

[Rey]

You miss the point too: age has to do if you talk about kids and mature as quoted. Quantity is another factor but it's not related to the original post or the answer.
I've missed the point solely because the intended statement has been misinterpreted. I've concentrated on another issue.

Games have never been considered 'mature'. There is a distinction between children games and adult games, but some people would never admit it. Shadowmoon probably meant that BR should stay true to its roots and not to bend to any of this new poofy smoofy stuff. At least to some degree because a game, in the end, has to evolve and improve.



Are you saying that exagerated weapons, armors and monsters, and things like that, come from WoW?
No. You've missed the point. I said that pictures of some characters presented in the books reminded me of WoW. Full stop.
My mistake, I didn't separate the sentences into different paragraphs.

[irdeggman]

I agree with Gary and his assessment of trying to use a dragon-based race as a "common" race in BR.

As far as tieflings go - that is difficult. IMO making them decendents of awnies is wrong. There are some Awnies that have "spawn" but that is no where the same thing. Awnies are supposed to be unique and have little in common (physically), even though there is an underlying similarity of "evil and/or chaos" that makes them similar. But still, not enough physical similarities to make them a race. Well, not in my opinion.

[ShadowMoon]

Games have never been considered 'mature'. There is a distinction between children games and adult games, but some people would never admit it. Shadowmoon probably meant that BR should stay true to its roots and not to bend to any of this new poofy smoofy stuff. At least to some degree because a game, in the end, has to evolve and improve.


True...

I am mostly Simulationist DM/Player, and since 4E is ridiculously simplified and aimed for sparkly fantasy hack and slash, I have no use for it. And when WotC starts trashing previous editions like "grappling the troll" crap I get annoyed, and then I get in 4E retarded idea of "who needs priests anyway, I don't want no DOWNTIME, lets just slaughter and loot, we can all heal without pots etc...".

Hah, so You gritty arcanophobic warrior are grappling a troll? Ahem You sound desperate enough. Or You gritty arcanophobic warrior is activating healing surge, to regenerate in few seconds. Sounds kiddie online gamish enough...




As far as tieflings go - that is difficult. IMO making them decendents of awnies is wrong. There are some Awnies that have "spawn" but that is no where the same thing. Awnies are supposed to be unique and have little in common (physically), even though there is an underlying similarity of "evil and/or chaos" that makes them similar. But still, not enough physical similarities to make them a race. Well, not in my opinion.

Awnshegh offsprings will hold no resemblance whatsoever, if Awnies mates their offspring will have random qualities/flaws depending on their bloodform development, as we seen from Iron Throne and Blood Enemies... So they will be minor Awnies as well...

[Vicente]

I've missed the point solely because the intended statement has been misinterpreted. I've concentrated on another issue.

Games have never been considered 'mature'. There is a distinction between children games and adult games, but some people would never admit it. Shadowmoon probably meant that BR should stay true to its roots and not to bend to any of this new poofy smoofy stuff. At least to some degree because a game, in the end, has to evolve and improve.

Child or adult games has little to do with adding poofy smoofy stuff to Birthright (something I wouldn't like either). But the "tiefling/dragonborn are for WoW kids" makes no sense, it just seems another random bash to DnD 4e - WoW without any solid argument behind it.

There are much better examples for the DnD-MMORPG relations than that one (Eladrin/Elf are a better point if you want to say DnD has sold itself to mass-consumer tastes).

[Thelandrin]

Let's not discuss the emotional or intellectual development of 4th Edition, World of Warcraft or their players in a thread which is only vaguely related to the first and not at all to the second or third.

[ShadowMoon]

Child or adult games has little to do with adding poofy smoofy stuff to Birthright (something I wouldn't like either). But the "tiefling/dragonborn are for WoW kids" makes no sense, it just seems another random bash to DnD 4e - WoW without any solid argument behind it.

There are much better examples for the DnD-MMORPG relations than that one (Eladrin/Elf are a better point if you want to say DnD has sold itself to mass-consumer tastes).

Solid argument?

Just that 4E game system is pen & paper version of action RPG. So it is a valid argument to compare 4E to WoW.

And what solid argument You have to see Dragonborn and Tieflings or Eldarin as well; as core Birthright races? They never existed in 2ed as core races, let alone in Birthright. And still You would put em in setting where 99% of the world would run screaming and preaching doomsday if they encountered em in any settlement... I am curious, what solid arguments for implementation of those "uber-kewl buffy-complex" races You have?

For fantasy Muppet show, and kids bedtime faerie-tale You have Forgotten Realms, Birthright really have no place for any of those...