Birthright Prayers (version by: AndrewTall)

[AndrewTall]

Discussion thread for User:AndrewTall/Birthright Prayers (http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/User:AndrewTall/Birthright Prayers). If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.


OK, a possibly contentious page.

While playing a priest PC I came to a point where my PC needed to say some prayers. This was not easy for me, as I find praying disrespectful at best. So I did what any self-respecting atheist would do, I google'd 'prayers' and waded through the scary stuff until I found some prayers that converted to BR fairly easily. As it was very hard work for me, I figured I'd wiki it and save others the chore.

While I see this page as the end result of a very creepy marathon, I recognise that some people might think it inappropriate for the wiki as a fair number of roleplayers are quite vocally religious - I probably know more openly religious gamers than I do openly religious co-workers (rather amusing given the slurs sometimes cast upon us).

As such, I'm more than happy to delete the page if people think that it is offensive, creepy, etc.

[The Swordgaunt]

I google'd 'prayers' and waded through the scary stuff until I found some prayers that converted to BR fairly easily.

LOL! I have been down this road as well.

Very good work there, Andrew! Looking past the possible accusations of blasphemy, I believe this adds depth to the setting.

Actually, addressing the blasphemy-issue, I believe that as long as it is done with respect, it is ok. However, it would not be the first time RPG's have been accused of consorting with the devil. But I'd like to make the argument that using RW-prayers and psalms in a game makes them available to people who wouldn't have come across them otherwise.

Besides, the Third Commandment says "You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God". Here I'd say that the name of the Judeo-Christian God is not used at all.

---

That said, I converted Martin Luther's "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" a while back. Feel free to add this to your page if you like.

A Mighty Fortress
Psalm to Haelyn

A mighty fortress is our Lord, a trusty shield and weapon;
He helps us free from every need that hath us now overtaken.
The old evil foe now means deadly woe; deep guile and great might
Are his dread arms in fight; no equal here on Aebrynis.

With might of ours can naught be done, soon were our loss effected;
But with us fights the Valorous One, whom Andurias elected.
Ask ye, who is this? The Lawgiver it is.
Lord Haelyn, His Name, from age to age the same,
He holds the field forever.

Though dark servants all the world should fill, all eager to devour us.
We tremble not, we fear no ill, they shall not overpower us.
The Dark Prince may still scowl fierce as he will,
He can harm us none, he’s judged; the deed is done;
One little word can fell him.

The Word they still shall let remain nor any thanks have for it;
He’s by our side upon the plain with His good gifts and spirit.
And take they our life, goods, fame, child and wife,
Let these all be gone, they yet have nothing won;
The Empire ours remaineth.

[Aldrin]

Loved that prayer swordgaunt. Im currently playin 2nd ad&d high lvl campain and paladin of belinik. And i am doin lotsa songs/prayers etc and uses em. (and im not a irl religious man)

Even tho i dont belive in any god, i get so into my character that i can see myself kneelin and doin the evening prayer. Epic words can be used many ways! vowe to those who oppose!

[Rey]

Nice page.

It's a part of a gaming, a part of one class. Like a bard has to say a song or two to get into his character, and a mage to mumble some strange words.
To find prayers on the web and convert them is a nice beginning, I'm sure you could make up some of your own now. Besides, religions and mythologies have always been a source for gaming material, my friend made a system where he outright used the gods from Greek mythology.

I know what you mean, that one is long gone and the issue is with the religions right here and now. Well, I once saw a show on a domestic TV where this one guy hacked to pieces couple of people from his village because he got "in character" and thought they were zombies or something. Need I say that the books for d&d were presented like a material for summoning demons and do witch rituals? And the guy they had an interview with, sat in a dark room, his voice scrambled and titled "Dungeons master". I didn't know whether to be angry or laugh my ass out.

I'm not for offending people and their beliefs, but if they don't want to understand us, then it won't matter what you write or use as an inspiration, they'll twist it the other way around if they want to. Though it's a nice thing you publicly expressed that you are prepared to remove it if it offends anyone.

About that amen in the end of one prayer. I don't know how much Hebrew is used in BR :) , but maybe you can make up a word instead of that one. Something that Haelyn or other gods could be connected to. Maybe something from some ancient BR language. How about 'Azari'. :D

[AndrewTall]

Googling 'amen':

'so be it', 'truth', 'verity', 'sure', 'faithful', 'fair dinkum', 'the end', 'I agree'.

Sources: Hebrew, Eqgyption, Sanskrit, an anacronym.

I'll try some replacements...

[AndrewTall]

Hmm, so far I haven't come across anything that would fit any of the 'evil' gods - presumably they don't see themselves as evil, so the prayer would have to glorify strength, pragmatism, being merciless, demanding submission from the weak etc - any ideas?

[Rey]

Of course they don't see themselves as 'evil', they only see themselves fighting for the cause against those who oppose them. Well, maybe a hint of a dark side here and there. Like black night, shadow, dark power, strong over weak, so not necessarily evil.
I'll see later if I come up with something...

[bbeau22]

Good stuff Andrew. I will make use of the Avani one.

-BB

[AndrewTall]

Of course they don't see themselves as 'evil', they only see themselves fighting for the cause against those who oppose them. Well, maybe a hint of a dark side here and there. Like black night, shadow, dark power, strong over weak, so not necessarily evil.
I'll see later if I come up with something...

The question you get is 'what is good and what is evil'? Once you have decided which tenents are 'good' and which are 'evil' you can start building the necessary society.

So is tolerance good? Mercy? Culture? Freedom? Freedom of speech? Social mobility? Many of the things we currently see as good were historically seen as evil - indeed still are in some places.

I'd expect that to a priestess of Kriesha feeding the weak and leaving the strong to go hungry is evil, to ignore slights (and thus encourage further attacks) is evil, living a life of idle luxury instead of striving to better yourself is evil, etc. If you see them as the cold wind winnowing the wheat from the chaff then they can be a harsh, but necessary facet of life in a tough environment. :rolleyes:

The question is how you get entire societies and the like that are 'evil' but remain coherent and unified over the long term when there are known, viable alternatives - Communism lasted under a century, Vosgaard has lasted 15... :(

[Rey]

There are different views to what is right and what is wrong. When you build two societies on totally different views, they will stand apart in hatred. When they have some similar views, they will tolerate each other.
But there is also how someone perceives the other and what he knows of his society. So essentially, there are many outcomes to a situation.

For instance, there was a film in which the WW2 ended with German victory and Germany (or Germania, as in the film) was a great and feared power, but now at peace with the rest of the nations. She was never condemned for the crimes because they were never discovered.

And other thing. I have lived in a former communist country for about 10 years and though communism is said to be 'inferior' to capitalism, I find some of its parts better then in capitalism. Either of them could be connected to "evil" but there is what you know, and what you don't know. For instance, maybe communism banned free speech, but capitalism gave in to another extreme, a chance to tell "the other truth."
With communism at least you knew where you stand.

But enough of RL, I like fantasy more. Vosgaard is here and after 15 centuries it's not going anywhere. Or maybe if they could put aside their discords and unite, perhaps they would conquer Cerilia. And then you would have loved them more the way they were before. :)

In the end, sometimes with "evil" you know where you stand, but with "good" you think you know where you stand.