Races: Half-elf

[tpdarkdraco]

I have just done some minor tweeks to this class. Not sure at the moment on this though as the Brecht one gets +4 Dex in total, which might be a bit unbalancing.

Half-Elves, Cerilian

Racial Traits

Average Height: 5’6” - 6’2”
Average Weight: 130 – 190 lbs

Ability Scores: +2 Dex, ( +2 Wis Anuirean, +2 Dex Brechtur, +2 Int Khinasi, +2 Con Rjurik, +2 Str Vos)
Size: Medium
Speed: 6
Vision: Low light

Languages: Sidhelien, Regional language, choice of one other.
Skill Bonus: +2 Perception, +2 Nature
Sidhelien Will: you gain a +2 racial bonus against charm effects.
Dilettante: At 1st level, you choice an at-will power from a class different from yours. You can use that power as an encounter power.
Dual Heritage: You can take feats that have either Sidhelien or human as prerequisites (as well as those specifically for half-elves), as long as you meet any other requirements.
Sidhelien Blood: Half-elves are able to cast true magic without being blooded.

[Sorontar]

+2 Cha for the charming Brecht half-elves? Or is that useless for 4e?

[tpdarkdraco]

+2 Cha for the charming Brecht half-elves? Or is that useless for 4e?

At the moment Brechts fixed ability modifier is Dex and they have a further +2 to one of their choice. We could give them +2 to Cha but this moves away from 2ed modifiers (the other was Int). Could give half-elves +2 to Int and then the Khinasi version would be better Arcane casters, which I think flavour wise is better then the Brechts half-elf having really high dex. Undecided at the moment.

I guess my question is a +4 too over powered for a race or would it be ok.

[dundjinnmasta]

+4 to a single ability is very much overpowered which is exactly why my subhumans aren't allowed to put their +2 anyone ability score in the same score as their culture ones.

[Rey]

And I'd give them only +1 on those region dependent modifiers. They are only half-elven. ;)
Last thing I want to see is a Vos half-elf with pointy ears and a graceful walk of a seal with bulging muscles. Real slick and slender fellow.
Think genetic.

This region separation makes me think like they are separate islands that never had any contact with each other and now we have to make them distinct. Khinasi was built upon the remains of Masetian culture, it had also been under the rule of Anuire for many years and that had an influence, mixing, mingling. They all met each other more or less, it's not like they are all closed societies. When you see an elf, you see why he's an elf. When you see humans or half-elves from different regions, they are only humans and half-elves. Why is there a need to treat them like they are something special? Give them some bonus abilities or skills or something.

I think that the elves of Cerilia should also have the modifiers each, region dependent. Cwmb Bheinn elves should be at least +2 STR (since they're from Vosgaard) and +2 INT (since they are keen on magic). Since they are very old and wise, give them some +2 on WIS, a and because they are such a charming race, +2 to CHA on every contact made with humans or half-elves. And don't forget standard +2 on DEX from PHB.

When we move on to Aduria, what shall we find there? 10 human subraces, and probably some 10 half-beast-men subraces also. Because there are walls separating each region and they never saw or have been out to another region.
Come on.

[AndrewTall]

The elves are immortal and have generations spanning centuries, add in a relativiely non-material culture and significant amounts of travel would have been the historic norm, so having only the three sidhe races (seelie, sidhe, Tuar annwn sidhe) makes sense - they haven't had the isolation to genetically separate.

For humans it is different, firstly travel is quite difficult, so most people never move more than a few tens of miles from their home town, secondly you have very different cultures - the Vos live next door to the Brecht and Khinasi, but inter-marriage will be very rare, a Vos might capture Khinasi women as slaves, but is unlikely to marry otherwise beyond in the one or two realms stated as mixed.

The extreme length of the empire would have encouraged inter-mingling, although possibly less than you might think, the rapid growth and longevity suggesting that cultures remained almost completely intact with only a thin Anuirean veneer - you might get a few marriages between nobles but not many, otherwise it is just sailors and traders.

The question though, is what do you want? Do you want clear regional differences? If so then the nobles are very keen on keeping the blood pure so the only hybrids are sailors get, if you want everyone the same then racial divisions are smaller, or differences between human tribes seen as trivial compared to freaks like goblins and dwarves.

Personally I cut the length of the empire and collapse period to help resolve issues like this...

[Rey]

There are other worlds and settings where humans, half-elves and elves existed and personally I don't think that in such a small portion of connected land there were so many differences and variations within one race that needed to be shown by modifying ability scores and so on. Some minor changes are good. If they were from other continents or separated by greater distances, maybe some major changes, OK. But this is a bit too much. At least for my taste. BR (Cerilia) is special, but not that special.

There is one other thing that needs to be taken into account. And that is balance. There are a lot of bonuses and pluses, but no hindrances (or maybe I didn't pay close attention). When you look at the standard rules for races and monsters, they have something they are better at, and something they are not so good at. Here, all I see is what they are better at, they seem to have no soft spots. So, as being already blooded, raising ability scores and giving them more powers makes them more powerful than others. So, are they people or half-gods? I'd pick a (sub)race that gives me most bonuses and would not want to play any other.

So, tell me about that half-elf Brecht rogue, what does he particularly suck at?

[tpdarkdraco]

There are other worlds and settings where humans, half-elves and elves existed and personally I don't think that in such a small portion of connected land there were so many differences and variations within one race that needed to be shown by modifying ability scores and so on. Some minor changes are good. If they were from other continents or separated by greater distances, maybe some major changes, OK. But this is a bit too much. At least for my taste. BR (Cerilia) is special, but not that special.

There is one other thing that needs to be taken into account. And that is balance. There are a lot of bonuses and pluses, but no hindrances (or maybe I didn't pay close attention). When you look at the standard rules for races and monsters, they have something they are better at, and something they are not so good at. Here, all I see is what they are better at, they seem to have no soft spots. So, as being already blooded, raising ability scores and giving them more powers makes them more powerful than others. So, are they people or half-gods? I'd pick a (sub)race that gives me most bonuses and would not want to play any other.

So, tell me about that half-elf Brecht rogue, what does he particularly suck at?

With 4e there are no hindrances anymore. Every race has bonuses now and there are no negatives. Certain races are better at certain classes now and the abililty modifiers & such reflect that.

The half-elf brecht rogue would be exactly that. He would be a better rogue than someone from Anuire.

As to the +1 on region it seems that all 4e ability mods are +2 and not +1. Maybe as Sorontar said purhaps +2 to Cha would be better.

Or the other option would be just to leave the modifers the same as they are in the PHB. That is why I have posted this idea. To get people talking and see what ideas come out. I just figured that if we don't have standard humans in BR then half-elves are not standard but then again in BR 2e they were standard.

[Rey]

Smaller fine adjustments work nice and make wonders with characters. All this 4e boosting makes characters munchkins, there's no fun in playing those characters. Seems that WotC have nothing new to sell so they pump up the existing. Makes me sad to see character turn into machine and you just buy the add-ons one by one until you make it better, faster, bigger, smarter killer. :(

[dundjinnmasta]

Smaller fine adjustments work nice and make wonders with characters. All this 4e boosting makes characters munchkins, there's no fun in playing those characters. Seems that WotC have nothing new to sell so they pump up the existing. Makes me sad to see character turn into machine and you just buy the add-ons one by one until you make it better, faster, bigger, smarter killer. :(

You obviously don't know much about 4E so it seems unlikely that you are going to able to offer real mechanic help in this case. 4E does boost character munchkins to begin. It just doesn't hinder a character with racial stats, everything is balanced that character min/maxing is very near unlikely and if you to work hard to make a character that sucks so EVERYONE is on the same playing field and you don't have a party of UBERKILLERMACHINES and CRAPPYPEONS where the GM is either killing PCs that aren't min/maxed to the Killer Level because he is designing the adventure to challenge said killers or his encounters are being bowled over by the Killer PCs because he is designing them be challenge the Peons.

[Rey]

Yep, you're right. Have the books, didn't read them. I don't like the way they look from what I've seen so far. But I like commenting what I notice even if I might be wrong, maybe someone gets some idea.
Anyway, the point before was that this relatively small community of Cerilia is being represented as though they are gathered from all 4 corners of the world and lined up in the same place and it seems like they didn't share the same continent for 15 centuries, and more.

Are the Scandinavians different than the Mediterranean people? They don't seem like it, maybe they're a bit paler and ski better.

[dundjinnmasta]

I do not think that the Half-Elves should have cultural differences because of their human parentage as it adds a level of complexity that wasn't present in the original material and just obviously isn't being balanced properly.

That being said, atleast the human subraces have been represented as different culturally and mechanically from the beginning of Birthright and therefore a certain amount of differences should be represented somehow even if it is a simple +2 Cultural Ability Score but that belongs in another thread, not the one about half-elves.

[tpdarkdraco]

Yeah I think you might be right. I thought I would just try it and see what people think.

It might be better to leave the standard half-elf from PHB.