The Party Action (was: Festivals and Tournaments.)

[geeman]

At 12:12 AM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:

>There is also a base cost of the action, and you have to spend an action
>doing it. Then you have to convince people to show up, because there is
>always the risk of treachery. All in all, I find it works fine.

Do all regents participating in the action spend an action doing it?

Anyway, I generally like the concept, I`m just not sure the exchange rate
is practical in the long term, and it might be problematic in certain
(collective rule) campaign types because it could make them significantly
more versatile.

Also, does it cost RP to participate in a Party action? I ask because of
what might happen with non-regent scions. If someone can get RP from
spending GB and it doesn`t cost RP to participate then what might happen if
a few dozen minor nobles get involved in a Party action and create RP for
their personal use? They could spend these RP to improve their bloodline,
or they might be able to insure the success of various domain level
activities despite the fact that they are not themselves regents. It would
also give them access to more domain actions. If it costs just 1RP to
participate this problem goes away.

In any case, using an action that allows GB to be transferred into RP could
have serious repercussions at several levels of play. GB could effectively
be used to increase a character`s bloodline by spending a domain action to
raise RP. GB are generally easier to come by at the realm level for
certain regents (particularly guilders) and if they transfer at 1GB = 3.5RP
then a Party action performed by The Brecht Council of Guilders, for
example, could create quite a windfall of regency for those regents.

Gary

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[Birthright-L]

Gary <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET> wrote at 02-05-04 00.48:

> Do all regents participating in the action spend an action doing it?
>

Yes, that`s the point.

> Also, does it cost RP to participate in a Party action? I ask because of
> what might happen with non-regent scions. If someone can get RP from
> spending GB and it doesn`t cost RP to participate then what might happen if
> a few dozen minor nobles get involved in a Party action and create RP for
> their personal use? They could spend these RP to improve their bloodline,
> or they might be able to insure the success of various domain level
> activities despite the fact that they are not themselves regents. It would
> also give them access to more domain actions. If it costs just 1RP to
> participate this problem goes away.
>

No, only the host pays the basic cost; everyone else just contributes GB. I
can`t find my notes now, but I beleieve basic cost was 2 GB and no RP. So,
you are basically doing your guests a favor by inviting them. You could also
have a certain level of court as a prerequisite.

I also let veryone involved get to make free diplomacy actions against each
other at this time.

This was written to simulate Sword and Crown; it has been used for a royal
marriage and a crowning ceremont since, but that is all.


> In any case, using an action that allows GB to be transferred into RP could
> have serious repercussions at several levels of play. GB could effectively
> be used to increase a character`s bloodline by spending a domain action to
> raise RP. GB are generally easier to come by at the realm level for
> certain regents (particularly guilders) and if they transfer at 1GB = 3.5RP
> then a Party action performed by The Brecht Council of Guilders, for
> example, could create quite a windfall of regency for those regents.
>


Yea, every DM would have to consider if this kind of action fits in his/her
game. One option is to allow it oly for the grandest of established feasts
(such as Sword and Crown).

/Carl

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[geeman]

At 09:20 AM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:

> > Do all regents participating in the action spend an action doing it?
>
>Yes, that`s the point.

OK, I didn`t get that from anything in your original post.

> > Also, does it cost RP to participate in a Party action? I ask because of
> > what might happen with non-regent scions. If someone can get RP from
> > spending GB and it doesn`t cost RP to participate then what might happen if
> > a few dozen minor nobles get involved in a Party action and create RP for
> > their personal use? They could spend these RP to improve their bloodline,
> > or they might be able to insure the success of various domain level
> > activities despite the fact that they are not themselves regents. It would
> > also give them access to more domain actions. If it costs just 1RP to
> > participate this problem goes away.
>
>No, only the host pays the basic cost; everyone else just contributes GB.
>I can`t find my notes now, but I beleieve basic cost was 2 GB and no RP.
>So, you are basically doing your guests a favor by inviting them. You
>could also have a certain level of court as a prerequisite.

Doesn`t that open up RP collection to non-regents? There are a lot of
problems with giving RP to non-regents. In particular, I can`t see a
reason why one would even need a bloodline to collect RP using this domain
action at present. What happens when a character has 1RP? Can s/he spend
it to "create" a bloodline with a BSS of 1? Non-regents are the driving
force behind random events, and if they can get access to RP then there`s
the possibility of bidding wars during those activities. If the Party
action costs just 1RP, however, the realm level is still "regents only"
since no one without a RP could participate. A regent could send a LT who
would get RP to spend on Lieutenant actions. That wouldn`t necessarily be
bad, but given the GB:RP exchange rate, I think it`s too easy for a LT to
come away with enough RP to assure his actions for a year easily. Also, if
it doesn`t cost RP to host a Party event, does a regent even have to be the
host? Couldn`t a non-regent host a Party event, invite a dozen other
non-regents as guests and they mutually spend GB to get RP?

I do like the idea, though. When you find your notes I`d love to see what
else you had on it.

>I also let veryone involved get to make free diplomacy actions against
>each other at this time.
>
>This was written to simulate Sword and Crown; it has been used for a royal
>marriage and a crowning ceremont since, but that is all.
>
> > In any case, using an action that allows GB to be transferred into RP could
> > have serious repercussions at several levels of play. GB could effectively
> > be used to increase a character`s bloodline by spending a domain action to
> > raise RP. GB are generally easier to come by at the realm level for
> > certain regents (particularly guilders) and if they transfer at 1GB = 3.5RP
> > then a Party action performed by The Brecht Council of Guilders, for
> > example, could create quite a windfall of regency for those regents.
>
>Yea, every DM would have to consider if this kind of action fits in
>his/her game. One option is to allow it oly for the grandest of
>established feasts (such as Sword and Crown).

Role-playing and events should drive campaigns, but often players have more
of a say in events at the realm level, so I think a game mechanical reason
for not having a Party action more often would make sense. The majority of
my objections could be dealt with pretty easily by having a 1RP cost to the
action. I still think the exchange rate is too high. I wouldn`t go higher
than 1:1 and, in fact, I`d probably make it much more costly to get RP from
GB. 1:3 probably. (I`ve always felt the 4:1 ratio of RP to GB in the
Alchemy spell was a little steep, and changed it to 3:1 IMC. I was tempted
to go 2:1 at one point, but it just never happened.)

Gary

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[geeman]

At 10:47 AM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:

> > Doesn`t that open up RP collection to non-regents?
>
>No, only regents can participate in the Party action. What is the clory of
>gathering some commonners together and spending a lot of money.
>
>I don`t see a lot of commonners and lesser nobles dishing out GB on
>throwing parties, either.

A GB isn`t a lot of money in D&D terms. Why wouldn`t someone with a few
thousand gp use them to create RP? A party of "commoner" PCs or just any
low level regent could use the action to get dozens of RP. If there were
six characters in the party that had the Party, each would get an average
of 21RP (6d6) by spending 6GB or a mere 12,000gp apiece (plus the
2GB/4,000gp cost to the host.)

Gary

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[Birthright-L]

Gary <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET> wrote at 02-05-04 10.35:

> Doesn`t that open up RP collection to non-regents?

No, only regents can participate in the Party action. What is the clory of
gathering some commonners together and spending a lot of money.

I don`t see a lot of commonners and lesser nobles dishing out GB on throwing
parties, either.

However, since guilders and people having even a single holding are regents,
this is still a pretty big group of people who can attend.

/Carl

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[Birthright-L]

Well, my GB is 10,000 gp. You`ll have to adapt the figures to your own
game.

/carl

Gary <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET> wrote at 02-05-04 11.42:

> At 10:47 AM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:
>
>>> Doesn`t that open up RP collection to non-regents?
>>
>> No, only regents can participate in the Party action. What is the clory of
>> gathering some commonners together and spending a lot of money.
>>
>> I don`t see a lot of commonners and lesser nobles dishing out GB on
>> throwing parties, either.
>
> A GB isn`t a lot of money in D&D terms. Why wouldn`t someone with a few
> thousand gp use them to create RP? A party of "commoner" PCs or just any
> low level regent could use the action to get dozens of RP. If there were
> six characters in the party that had the Party, each would get an average
> of 21RP (6d6) by spending 6GB or a mere 12,000gp apiece (plus the
> 2GB/4,000gp cost to the host.)
>
> Gary
>
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[geeman]

At 01:10 PM 5/4/2002 +0200, Carl Cramér wrote:

>Well, my GB is 10,000 gp. You`ll have to adapt the figures to your own game.

Ah, that does help quite a bit. Very few non-nobles are going to be
running around with 20-80k gp to spend. I still think a 1RP cost for
participating in a Party action (I`m thinking of calling it a Moot, Grand
Moot or something like that IMC) would solve any issues regarding who can
participate without having to resort to DM fiat or jumping through too many
hoops in interpreting the action.

Also, I`m thinking that participants should all get the equivalent of a
free Diplomacy action (maybe with a higher than normal DC since it
shouldn`t be quite the same thing as the full court press of the regular
Diplomacy action and they can`t spend RP to improve their chance of
success) per your previous post, but the host of the party (moot, high
council, whatever) should get as many as three, or maybe he gets both a
free Diplomacy and a free Espionage as well (both with the same boost to DC
compared to the standard action.) There should be some benefit to being
the host of the thing, but it shouldn`t be so great that A) other regents
refuse to participate since they don`t want to aid the hosting regent`s
action, and B) his slightly increased GB/RP costs don`t give him a
substantially greater benefit.

Gary

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Cramér" <carl.cramer@HOME.SE>
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 3:47 AM


> I don`t see a lot of commonners and lesser nobles dishing out GB on
throwing
> parties, either.

I remind you of the debutante`s ball. Take a (female) scion, you want to
send her out into the world as a potential regent, so you throw a party for
a daughter or niece (or granddaughter, grand niece) in which she collects
regency from attending the party.

Granted, if too many attendees of the party are just blooded non-regents the
political glow will be much less (no RP`s), but I do think you could make
the case (emphasis on could) that a debutante ball gives the girl comming
out into society her starting RP.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[kgauck]

I think Gary`s point that a RP entrance fee makes a lot of sense. I find it
beneficial both in terms of access to the action and in terms of the RP
reward being easier to justify (as a RP+GB exchange for RP`s).

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Birthright-L]

<< I think Gary`s point that a RP entrance fee makes a lot of sense. I find
it beneficial both in terms of access to the action and in terms of the RP
reward being easier to justify (as a RP+GB exchange for RP`s).
>>

And it also means that the debutante you mentioned earlier has to be
sponsored (by her daddy?), which would seem to make sense as well.

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