Elves: a simpler take

[Fizz]

There is nothing indiscriminate there.

If they were willing to kill children as willingly as soldiers, that by definition is indescriminate. That's the very meaning of the word.

It's entirely on the humans that they weaponized their innocents as a human shield for the sake of colonialism.

This is your defense of elven behaviour? "It's not my fault- they made me kill them" ?

But justification is not the issue. My point is that elves killing humans indiscriminately is going to enflame things, regardless of whether you think humans arrogant.

It took a gigantic superiority complex in the first place to decide that lands they'd never even set foot on until the expansion of the Adurian empire were theirs by divine right.

That is incorrect. The humans fled Aduria. It had nothing to do with wanting to conquer. It was about surviving. Per Atlas of Cerilia, they were "fleeing the domination of decadent empires and the wrath of a vengeful god". You seem to be suggesting that humans' desire to survive makes them arrogant, yet you give a pass on the elves for this.

The claim that the gheallie sidhe is arrogant for its existence reminds me of a common saw in a lot of fantasy settings, if anything, that elves are inherently arrogant for merely wanting to survive without becoming conquered subjects of humanity.

This is what you're making of humans though- they initially came to Cerilia to survive, not to invade. This is well established in the Atlas of Cerilia. It was later generations that ended up warring with the elves as humans multiplied and needed more land.

In Birthright, elves (as a whole) are arrogant. It says so in the original rulebook. It reads: "Elves are very conscious of their perceived superiority and treat others with coldness or condescension". Further, the Atlas of Cerilia states their hatred "extends to humans humanoids and whomever stands in the way of elven domination". This is exactly what you've been ascribing to humans! So why do you only criticize humans for this behaviour and not the elves?

Blindly applying "arrogance" to villify only one side is simplisitic thinking and ignores a long and complicated history. By canon elves are the species with the biggest superiority complex and worst arrogance.

Among other things, basically yes. Also some of the obviously arbitrary class restrictions; it took complete druid and complete bard to drop the silliness of elves not being able to take those up in core 2e.

Kinda, sorta. 1st Edition's Unearthed Arcana allowed all types of elves (except dark) to be druids (unlimited level too, except for wild elves). In 2nd ed, Complete Druid allowed only sylvan elves to be druids. In Complete Bard, an elf could only be a bard if of a specific kit. So it wasn't a free choice yet.

Now, the Complete Book of Elves included an option (to the DM) to expand level limits. The consequence of this, as noted by the section, is that elves would quickly become the dominant species on the planet due to their long lifespans.

Humans one and only advantage was unlimited level advancement. Humans do not get bow and sword bonuses, elves do. Humans do not have 90% resistance to sleep and charm, elves do. Humans do not have infravision or the ability to notice secret doors, elves do. Etc etc. As such, human flexibility (any class) was meant to be the way of balancing, not a secret way of saying "only play humans". It never worked in any game i played though- nearly everyone wanted to play a demihuman. (Ironically, i always liked elves. )


-Fizz