Noble PC class.

[geeman]

RPG Objects have a Noble PC class that they`ve posted. This class is part

of an Arthurian/knighthood type campaign setting, so it has stuff about

assigning quests and the like, which doesn`t really lend itself to BR in

particular, but could be useful here and there. It also uses a point value

for "nobility" that isn`t included in the download that I saw, but we can

associate that stuff with bloodline (just having one) for BR purposes. I

do like the stuff about granting knighthood--something that is oft handled

badly in other RPGs. I think they`re on to something there. It`s a little

vague, but could inspire a sort of BR equivalent. Lastly, the special

ability of the noble (inspiration and majesty) looks like a blood ability

to me, and might provide a basis for a BR equivalent of the noble that uses

the bloodline score in place of a "nobility" score.



http://www.rpgobjects.com/dlm/download.php?id=30



Gary

[RaspK_FOG]

In my opinion, the best noble class I've ever seen is the one presented in The Wheel of Time (sorry guys&#33, just like the wanderer is a lot more interesting than the rogue... Anyway, I think that Birthright has a need for a noble that really feels more - how should I put it - aristocratic?!

[Seeker164]

If your looking for a Noble type Character with some diplomacy why not use the Noble class out of Dragonlance Campaign Setting. They have a good array of skills and abilities that would work well for BR.
Just my 2 cents on that

[geeman]

At 08:05 PM 12/17/2003 +0100, RaspK_FOG wrote:



> In my opinion, the best noble class I`ve ever seen is the one presented

> in The Wheel of Time (sorry guys!), just like the wanderer is

> a lot more interesting than the rogue... Anyway, I think that Birthright

> has a need for a noble that really feels more - how should I put it -

> aristocratic?!



Classes are generally tweaked for the campaign setting, and I`m starting to

think the BR noble should have more to do with bloodline than with

expressing things having to do with anything else since bloodline is core

to the setting. The Aristocrat might be the non-blooded version of the

Noble, but the Noble itself could comprise aspects of a scion character

class and other issues having to do with realm rulership since that`s the

other major aspect of the BR setting....



Gary

[Eosin the Red]

Green Ronin just put out a Nobles book in their masterclass line (Includes Witches, Shamans, Assassians, Avatars, and Unholy Warriors). 3 of 5 have been outstanding IMO and I look forward to reading their treatment.



Other than that, I use the Wheel of Time noble (updated to match the Star Wars Revised Noble) as my noble class and the BR noble as a Jack of all trades/bardly type class. It is an extremely versitile class just not a noble one.



PS for those of you non-magical ranger types on the other thread...The Woodsman from the Wheel of Time is exactly that a non-magical ranger.



Eosin



>

> At 08:05 PM 12/17/2003 +0100, RaspK_FOG wrote:

>

> > In my opinion, the best noble class I`ve ever seen is the one presented

> > in The Wheel of Time (sorry guys!), just like the wanderer is

> > a lot more interesting than the rogue... Anyway, I think that Birthright

> > has a need for a noble that really feels more - how should I put it -

> > aristocratic?!

>

> Classes are generally tweaked for the campaign setting, and I`m starting to

> think the BR noble should have more to do with bloodline than with

> expressing things having to do with anything else since bloodline is core

> to the setting. The Aristocrat might be the non-blooded version of the

> Noble, but the Noble itself could comprise aspects of a scion character

> class and other issues having to do with realm rulership since that`s the

> other major aspect of the BR setting....

>

> Gary

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gary" <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET>

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 2:56 PM





> Classes are generally tweaked for the campaign setting, and I`m starting

to

> think the BR noble should have more to do with bloodline than with

> expressing things having to do with anything else since bloodline is core

> to the setting. The Aristocrat might be the non-blooded version of the

> Noble, but the Noble itself could comprise aspects of a scion character

> class and other issues having to do with realm rulership since that`s the

> other major aspect of the BR setting....



My responce to the Legends of Excalibur noble class was the opposite. I

think that a class designed to represent a noble class for birthright should

be distinct from the bloodline system. Otherwise, like the LoE setting,

they should be rolled into one. Part of this involves the fact that two

mechanisms allows for a different kind of approach to what the divine touch

implies. The Arthurian setting involves one kind, and generally only one

kind, a kind we might associate with Andurias` derivation. That makes it

easy to roll the aristocrat and the bloodline into one class. But in BR,

not only does bloodline come in varieties, there is no reason to associate

it with a single class. I associate Reynir not with aristocrats but with

druids. Vorynn I associate with sorcerers. I could have a class for common

druids, and for blooded druids, common rogues, and blooded rogues, common

sorcerers and blooded sorcerers, but its much easier to seperate bloodedness

and class. This works as well for aristocrats, who may or may not be

blooded. I have the greatest ability to mix and match for any character

concept when bloodline and class are not combined.



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----

From: "Eosin the Red" <eosin_the_red@COX.NET>

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 3:34 PM



> I use the Wheel of Time noble



I am not happy with the WoT/SW noble. His two primary abilities both strike

the wrong note with me. "Call in a Favor" strikes me as something that

should be built by a network of circumstance (a priest of Avani being able

to get some kind of aid from temples of Avani, people drawing on familial

relations) or by a network built by the character, not by the accumulation

of mere levels. "Command" suggests that nobles are so good at giving

directions (or gives such good directions) that whether or not the noble

actually knows anything about the matter at hand (the noble makes a Charisma

check) a potentially huge bonus is provided. "Inspire Confidence" doesn`t

bother me, but I would rather take it and "Command" and make it the basis of

a class called "Officer" or "Captain" and replace "Call in a Favor" with

some ability that is useful in large scale combat.



The AEG Courtier (used in Rokugan, Swashbuckling, and other AEG settings) is

a nice class, but its not well suited to Cerilia, where war is so frequent,

where the god of law and governance is also a god of war, where the god of

heraldry and diplomacy is a god of battle. I have used this class once, to

describe Lady Carissa Castamona from the Talinie PS.



AEG also has a Noble class (Swashbuckling), but it seems too well suited to

a Three Musketeers campaign, and not well enough suited to a world where a

noble does more than stare down his enemies and sneer at their impotence.



Mongoose has a Noble class which is nice enough, but duplicates too closely

the powers of other classes (particularly the Bardic Knowledge ability which

Courtiers have as well) and otherwise could benefit from a bit of tinkering.



The BRCS noble is just a fighter who has traded some combat power (slower

BAB, d8 HD, and fewer feats) for a boat load of skills. The use of

unlimited bonus feats strikes me as both not specific enough as well as too

flexible (related but not just two sides of the same coin).



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by kgauck@Dec 17 2003, 07:13 PM
----- Original Message -----

From: "Eosin the Red" <eosin_the_red@COX.NET>

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 3:34 PM



> I use the Wheel of Time noble



I am not happy with the WoT/SW noble. His two primary abilities both strike

the wrong note with me. "Call in a Favor" strikes me as something that

should be built by a network of circumstance (a priest of Avani being able

to get some kind of aid from temples of Avani, people drawing on familial

relations) or by a network built by the character, not by the accumulation

of mere levels. "Command" suggests that nobles are so good at giving

directions (or gives such good directions) that whether or not the noble

actually knows anything about the matter at hand (the noble makes a Charisma

check) a potentially huge bonus is provided. "Inspire Confidence" doesn`t

bother me, but I would rather take it and "Command" and make it the basis of

a class called "Officer" or "Captain" and replace "Call in a Favor" with

some ability that is useful in large scale combat.



The AEG Courtier (used in Rokugan, Swashbuckling, and other AEG settings) is

a nice class, but its not well suited to Cerilia, where war is so frequent,

where the god of law and governance is also a god of war, where the god of

heraldry and diplomacy is a god of battle. I have used this class once, to

describe Lady Carissa Castamona from the Talinie PS.



AEG also has a Noble class (Swashbuckling), but it seems too well suited to

a Three Musketeers campaign, and not well enough suited to a world where a

noble does more than stare down his enemies and sneer at their impotence.



Mongoose has a Noble class which is nice enough, but duplicates too closely

the powers of other classes (particularly the Bardic Knowledge ability which

Courtiers have as well) and otherwise could benefit from a bit of tinkering.



The BRCS noble is just a fighter who has traded some combat power (slower

BAB, d8 HD, and fewer feats) for a boat load of skills. The use of

unlimited bonus feats strikes me as both not specific enough as well as too

flexible (related but not just two sides of the same coin).



Kenneth Gauck

kgauck@mchsi.com

We had a real hard time trying to come up with a PC class to replace the aristocrat for the BRCS. I tend to agree that the noble wasn&#39;t specific enough. I had originally proposed making the noble take a focus (warrior, guilder or scholar) and then have their bonus feats be selected from a corresponding list . Similar to what the 3.5 ranger had done to it. This was determined to be too complicated. The class has been revised though and will come out for the next round of discussions and playtests with a better focus than it had before, and not as many "free any type of" feats.

The Mongoose noble was the best work up of the class that I have seen in a published product so far, IMO. And yet I also agree it is far too duplicating in other class abilities and not enough in new ones.

[destowe]

It seems that people would like the same distinction between Noble and Aristocrat as there is from Wizard and Magician.

The Noble and the Wizard are the regent holder and have bloodlines.

While the Magician and Aristocrat are more common and while still suitable for adventuring, are more suited as LTs.

[Osprey]

The BRCS noble is just a fighter who has traded some combat power (slower
BAB, d8 HD, and fewer feats) for a boat load of skills. The use of
unlimited bonus feats strikes me as both not specific enough as well as too
flexible (related but not just two sides of the same coin).

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

I would be happy with a similar Noble class that uses bonus feats from a list of class feats. It should allow for the cultural variety you described (rogue, fighter, and other bents, combined with different cultural tendencies and bloodline derivations), yet be distinct enough to be a seperate class unto itself rather than a simple multiclass 2-in-1 deal.

My ideal Noble class would have just a few distinct and fairly general (i.e., common to all nobles) class abilities, along with fairly regular bonus feats (1 every 4 levels seems reasonable) from a class list.

-Osprey