Chap 7 for discussion

[irdeggman]

Here is the thread for discussing Ch 7, Realm Magic.

Here is the word document.

[Don E]

How about changing Source level requirement to match the spell level?

[Ksaturn]

While Scry is not a first level spell i don't think It require all that much massive power on the domain level... Up to the DMs in Balence v.s. Book-keeping

[Osprey]

I've been working on the designs for new realm spells based off of existing [personal] spells, and thought it might be useful to include some guidelines in Chapter 7 for DM's/players to do this when creating new realm spells. If people like these guidelines, it might also be reasonable to edit some of the existing realm spells to be more consistent with such a standardized system.

Spell Descriptor....Realm Spell
School.....................same
Spell Level...............same
Components.............ritual with RP and GB costs
Casting Time............1 month (or more)
Range......................target(s) must be in province where the required holding or ley line exists, except for certain exceptions (Scry Province, Transport).
Target.....................1 or more individuals, units, or provinces (see below)
-Personal.................not appropriate as a realm spell
-Single person..........1 person, unit, or province
-Area, multiple targets...1 individual, unit, or province per caster level. Mass versions of single target spells should be a spell 4 levels higher than the single target version.
-Very large area spells...1 unit or province per caster level
Duration..................see below; the DM may elect to cap the duration of certain realm spells, typically at 1 month or 1 season.
-Instantaneous.........Instantaneous
-1 round/level..........1 week per 3 caster levels for individual or unit affecting spells; 1 month per 3 caster levels for province-affecting spells.
-1 minute/level.........1 week (individuals, units) or 1 month (provinces) per 2 caster levels.
-10 minutes/level or more..1 week (individuals, units) or month (provinces) per caster level.

[Osprey]

Some examples (base PHB spell in parentheses after realm spell name):
Note that realm spell costs (RP, GB) are somewhat arbitrary right now, and could be standardized too if a streamlined system can be worked out and agreed upon.

Cure Unit (Cure Light Wounds):
Spell Level: 1st
Target: 1 unit
Effect: Heals 1 hit to a damaged unit (see below)
Cost: 5 RP and 1 GB
Design Note: Since all Cure spells are healing spells but don't raise the dead, such a spell could not restore slain soldiers in a unit. Hence, the effects should be limited to healing no more than 1/2 the damage taken by a unit (round up). More potent (higher-level) versions could be researched, each healing an additional hit of damage (CMW = 2 hits, CSW = 3 hits, CCW = 4 hits), but given the low hits of most units these wouldn't be very practical.

Heal the Army (Mass Cure Light Wounds):
Spell Level: 5th
Target: 1 unit per 2 caster levels
Effect: Heals 1 hit per damaged unit targeted
Cost: 5 RP + 1 GB per unit targeted

Shield Unit (Shield of Faith)
Spell Level: 1st
Target: 1 unit
Duration: 1 week per 2 caster levels
Cost: 5 RP + 1 GB
Effect: +2 deflection bonus to target unit's defense, with an additional +1 to the bonus for every six caster levels you have (maximum +5 deflection bonus at 18th level).

Shield the Legions (Shield of Faith, mass)
Spell Level: 5th
Target: 1 unit per 2 caster levels
Duration: 1 week per 2 caster levels
Cost: 5 RP + 1 GB per unit targeted
Effect: +2 deflection bonus to target units' defense, with an additional +1 to the bonus for every six caster levels you have (maximum +5 deflection bonus at 18th level).

[Danip]

How about changing Source level requirement to match the spell level?

Ummm, why? I kind of like the idea that a lower level mage can cast more powerful realm spells if she can only get her hands on a bigger source. By tying the source requirement to spell level, you take away a large incentive for mages to increase their sources or fight for their preservation. If your a mage who can cast level 4 spells, why bother to fight for a 7+ level source. You wont be able to use it for many levels with your idea. Would your rule also apply to temple level and divine realm spells?

[Danip]

In this thread on the usefulness of named bonus types, several different spell varieties were discussed. Other than military spells there are no realm spells which give bonues or penalties to domain actions. For example:


Elected by God
Divination(?)
Spell Level: 1st
Special Requirements: Temple (4) and Lawful God?
Target: 1 scion
Costs: 2 RP and 1 GB (?)
Casting time: 1 Full domain action
Duration: 1 Season
Effect: One selected scion, who must be present in the province where cast at some time during the casting, has been divinely selected to rule. If this scion undergoes a Coronation Ceremony during the duration of this spell, and the priest who cast this spell performs the Ceremony, then the scion receives a +5(?) bonus on the domain action check to invest their domain. This is a +5 sacred or profane bonus depending upon the alignment of the God (priests of neutral gods use their turn or rebuke undead to determine this).


Im not sure on the name or the costs and benifits, but you get the idea. This spell could help particularly large coronations (DC = 10 + size of domain).
Many differnet spells like this could be created for almost all domain action checks. The casting regent basically gets to get a larger bonus then their RP and GB spend normally would. To get this bonus they must give up a full domain action and have spent the time and money to research the spell. High source/temple level requirements would also help reward good domain stewardship/growth.

Different casters would research different spells of this type allowing them be specialized. This could reflect different needs and interests. Priests of Sera would go for create trade route bonues, while Haelyn might go for rule or justice matters resolution bonues.

Just as a side thing: You see how my spell has level 1 but temple (4). I like the level 1, because then any priest can cast this if they spend 1 month (and a GB) to learn this. If it took longer to learn, I dont know that many regents would bother with this rarely useful spell. I like the temple (4) at least, because it demonstrates a serious sized temple ready to become a state religion, not some fly by night temple (1).

[The incredible, edible Phil]

If you want to standardize "costs" for spells, I would consider the are of effect. If a spell targets a military unit, it should cost less than a spell that affects a holding, which in turn should cost less than a spell that affects an entire province.

[Mark_Aurel]

I think some terminology should be rethought or added to clean up some descriptions and make it easier to write new spells. I also don't think a discussion of realm magic should be kept entirely separate from a discussion of domain rules, as the two overlap a fair deal.

A separation should be made between spells that affect provinces as an area, and spells that affect population levels.

Another concept that might be a useful introduction, both for the domain rules, and realm spells like Blight Land is something like a 'negative province level,' working somewhat like a negative character level. It would be useful for cases like raising levies, or possibly for revising existing rules for pillaging or making new ones for population movements.

[irdeggman]

"Negative province level" I think I like it. Fits into an existing game mechanic structure and translates into a more easily understood concept. Now source level regenerates naturally over time (if left undisturbed) but province level doesn't so that would require a little discussion but should easily be handled.

We do need to have some more discussion on domain actions as a whole to try to fit in realm magic and such.

We also need some more discussion on battle magic - I think that one fits in with the armies, etc. section since that is the level it functions at.

Again, I miss you Jan - you have a real eye for details and how game mechanics fit together.

You know, I/we could use a good chapter editor for some of these chapters. . . .