Cerilian horse

[Sorontar]

Discussion thread for Cerilian horse. If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.

[Sorontar]

What is the signifance of the asterisk for 0 xp? Is it supposed to refer to the text next to the table?

Sorontar

[kgauck]

yes, that is the meaning.

[Jaleela]

I have to say that this really needs modifications; I know a lot of this is heavily based on "Noble Steeds" which I have, and tend to disagree with some of the author's "breed" choices.

Destriers are NOT draft horses regardless of what one sees at the local ren joust. Shires, perchs, brabants,etc in their current state, are modern breeds are not remotely medieval in appearance or size.

Modern equivalents to the "war horse" type are going to be more along the lines of a Lipizzaner, Lusitano, Andalusian, or a warm-blood heavy hunter. Speed maneuverability and training. Topping out in height somewhere between 14 - 16 hands. Though it is said that for the melee, if you are going to err on the size of the horse, taller is better than shorter.

Sorry, I see the word "historical" and horse breed, and it pushes a button.

[Gwrthefyr]

Also, the difference in height between a destrier, a courser and light cavalry horses is almost insignificant (and it's actually more 14 hands, IIRC) - a destrier would almost never be found on the battlefield except as the mount of a prince, too pricey. Coursers are for the nobility and wealthy knights, anything else goes to rounceys and other lighter horses. Also knights are found more often on foot at the beginning of the renaissance, but that's mostly a peculiarity of siege based warfare of the time and the relative lack of pitched battles (compared to later/earlier eras that is)

If anything a draft horse would be woefully inadequate, and was only used as a poor man's cavalry by peasant rebellions.

[AndrewTall]

One of the big reasons for building a wiki rather than simply a library was because while the initial contributors could 'port in various stuff that looked interesting, they wouldn't necessarily know it as well as someone with a particular interest in the area - and this is a hobby which attracts people with deep knowledge in diverse areas.

Please correct any obvious errors you find on the wiki - but do remember that the aim is ultimately to have a fun game so 'errors' may be deliberate, particularly for anachronisms where 'pop culture' insists that a=b even when any remote historian/etc knows otherwise - plus of course magical breeding and innovation can explain much otherwise 'out of time' stuff.

If in doubt about a change either discuss it on br.net (as you are doing of course) make an alternate page, refer to 'other sages declare X' in the existing page, and so on, that leaves the original text intact but also gives the option of the 'correct' answer.

[Sorontar]

One of the big reasons for building a wiki rather than simply a library was because while the initial contributors could 'port in various stuff that looked interesting, they wouldn't necessarily know it as well as someone with a particular interest in the area - and this is a hobby which attracts people with deep knowledge in diverse areas.
[snip]

Yes, wikis are living documents. Nothing is "final" until a wiki page is locked and we certainly don't plan to do that to many BR wiki pages. As Andrew has described, there are many ways to give an alternate view on the wiki. Just look at the different ways in which The Vampire's Hold is handled
* http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/ind...mpire%27s_Hold
* http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/ind...ia_.284.2F5.29

Sorontar

[Jaleela]

Also, the difference in height between a destrier, a courser and light cavalry horses is almost insignificant (and it's actually more 14 hands, IIRC) - a destrier would almost never be found on the battlefield except as the mount of a prince, too pricey. Coursers are for the nobility and wealthy knights, anything else goes to rounceys and other lighter horses. Also knights are found more often on foot at the beginning of the renaissance, but that's mostly a peculiarity of siege based warfare of the time and the relative lack of pitched battles (compared to later/earlier eras that is)

If anything a draft horse would be woefully inadequate, and was only used as a poor man's cavalry by peasant rebellions.

Not sure I agree with the assessment that Destriers would only be found on the battlefield except as a prince's mount. No argument that they are horrifically expensive; they would often be ransomed back to the knight just like his harness (armor) if it was valuable enough.

The hand size that I posted was cross century boundaries and not just the 11th - 13th century, it was inclusive of the 14th and 15th century. The Medieval Horse and it's Equipment only addresses English skeletal remains, which tends to be reused ad nauseum by every author who writes on the topic of the Medieval Warhorse, at the bottom of the scale is more like 13 hands.

Typically you have for example of the late middle ages:

*destrier/war horse - also found in the lists (tournaments) - though probably more of a jousting horse rather than one used for the mounted melee.
*Courser - running/chasing horse; served as a lighter warhorse
*Palefrey/Palfroi - smaller, usually gaited horse (ambler) used by a knight or the well born.
*Rouncey/Hackney are more of the common man's horse. Some nice, some not so nice.
*Sumpter or pack horse
*Jennet - a Spanish breed of horse, some speculate that it's medieval type is extinct, but often mentioned as being used by a lady.
*Mule - not much has changed.

As for knights being on foot, it really depends on the geographic location and when in the span of the middle ages. While not knights, the condottieri of Italy were very horse oriented; typically heavy cavalry. The French and Burgundians had a lot of what could be described as heavy cavalry, some knightly some not. In the latter army, a man-at-arms serving Charles the Bold was supposed to supply three horses, a war horse for himself, two mounts, one for his coustillier, and one for his page/valet, the last two horses were supposed to serve as remounts should his warhorse be cut down. He also contracted with a lot of Italian mercenaries.

Completely agree about people being dismounted at sieges.

We're on the same page with the draft horses not being handy (swift and maneuverable).

(I commented on this topic because I stumbled on it again).