Results 1 to 6 of 6
Thread: elves on a pedestal? (was B
-
05-13-1998, 09:16 PM #1Fredrik LundbergGuest
elves on a pedestal? (was B
> I really don't think that's good enough. The proportion of
>wizards in elven society should be considerably higher than the proportion
>of priests in human ones. And wizards ar much more effective in battle
>than are priests. Again, it's simply a matter of numbers, organization
>and desire.
Ok, now I have had enough with this glorification of wizards and what they can do on the battle field and that they should be so much better then Priests.
I have played both classes and find them both very interesting but since the introduction of BoP priests are actually better on the battle field then wizards. Granted Priests don't have any spells at first level which can give a unit an automatic hit like magic missile. Instead they have battle spells like Bless, Oaken Strike (which raises the attack value of a unit in a manner equal to the 4th level wizard spell Enchanted Weapon), Erik's Entanglement and others. At second level they have spells like Hammer Storm (which is a better battle spell then either Fireball or Lightning Bolt at one spell level lower) and Barkskinned Unit which is another superb battle spell.
These spells that are gained at very low levels are then complemented with higher level spells like Cure Unit makes the priest spells equal to wizards on the battle field.
The real advantage with priests is that they can memorize more spells then a wizard of an equal level and if the priest have a high wisdom this gap increases.
Now to discuss this topic why the elves haven't used their wizards to "crush" the armies of the humans we come to the fact that there are more human priests of a spellcasting level then there are elven wizards (someone said that they calculated the number of wizards of level 8+ in the capital province of Tuarhivel to 80, the number is closer to 5 and then I'm being generous. To balance this I can say that using the numbers available in BoP the WIT can field a minimum of 53 priests of a spell casting level, excluding Nichlaer himself).
On top of this we must also remember that there are human wizards and magicians also, certainly there are not as many human wizards as there are elven but the best human wizards are of a higher level. Although magicians can not cast fireballs and lightning bolts they can use spells like Magic Missile, and a very large number of illusions that can be as deadly as any Evocation/Invocation spell (take Phantasmal Killer for example, a more lethal spell is hard to find).
Well that was all for now. As I said I got feed up with all this pro-wizard and anti-priest talk.
Fredrik Lundberg
-
05-13-1998, 11:09 PM #2Pieter A de JongGuest
elves on a pedestal? (was B
At 11:16 PM 5/13/98 +0200, Frederick Lundberg wrote:
>Ok, now I have had enough with this glorification of wizards and what they
can do on the battle field and that they should be so much better then Priests.
>
> I have played both classes and find them both very interesting but
since the introduction of BoP priests are actually better on the battle
field then wizards. Granted Priests don't have any spells at first level
which can give a unit an automatic hit like magic missile. Instead they have
battle spells like Bless, Oaken Strike (which raises the attack value of a
unit in a manner equal to the 4th level wizard spell Enchanted Weapon),
Erik's Entanglement and others. At second level they have spells like Hammer
Storm (which is a better battle spell then either Fireball or Lightning Bolt
at one spell level lower) and Barkskinned Unit which is another superb
battle spell.
>
You realize that Hammer Storm is the battle spell version of spiritual
hammer. They haven't come out with a battle spell version of many common
wizard spells (eg. fireball, lightning bolt, Aghanazer's Scorcher, Melf's
Acid Arrow, etc.) because they would be game enders. ie. I have a 5th level
wizard, as a battle spell I research Rain of Fireballs, it compeletely
destroys X units, where X is equal to the casters level (or worse!).
> These spells that are gained at very low levels are then complemented
with higher level spells like Cure Unit makes the priest spells equal to
wizards on the battle field.
>
> The real advantage with priests is that they can memorize more spells
then a wizard of an equal level and if the priest have a high wisdom this
gap increases.
>
Try specialist wizards on for size. And as well, wizard spells are
generally more potent for their level. Eg compare flamestrike and fireball,
flamestrike is 2 levels higher, and does a 8D6 to a smaller area. A
fireball cast at that level of ability is 9-10 D6 and affects a much larger
area.
>
>Now to discuss this topic why the elves haven't used their wizards to
"crush" the armies of the humans we come to the fact that there are more
human priests of a spellcasting level then there are elven wizards (someone
said that they calculated the number of wizards of level 8+ in the capital
province of Tuarhivel to 80, the number is closer to 5 and then I'm being
generous. To balance this I can say that using the numbers available in BoP
the WIT can field a minimum of 53 priests of a spell casting level,
excluding Nichlaer himself).
>
I was the guy who did that caculation, using numbers straight from the
monster manual. Yes, I realize some people figure that the numbers from the
manual are too high. But, that calculation was solely for the capital city
of the province (population 16000), not the whole province. As elves
educate all their people, (no peasant tilling the fields in a society of
immortals), there are likely a lot more elven spellcasters than humans ones,
minimum intelligence required for a wizard = 9, minimum elven intelligence =
8, as opposed to a human attribute minimum of 3!. Finally note that elves
are immortal, ie. sooner or later they get around to trying everything!
> On top of this we must also remember that there are human wizards and
magicians also, certainly there are not as many human wizards as there are
elven but the best human wizards are of a higher level. Although magicians
can not cast fireballs and lightning bolts they can use spells like Magic
Missile, and a very large number of illusions that can be as deadly as any
Evocation/Invocation spell (take Phantasmal Killer for example, a more
lethal spell is hard to find).
>
Why do you say the best human wizards are higher level ? There are no stupid
level limits on elven wizards in Birthright! Magicians, as double
specialist have even higher attribute requirements than normal wizards.
> Well that was all for now. As I said I got feed up with all this
pro-wizard and anti-priest talk.
>
>
If anybody wonders why I start writing about this it's not because I believe
in the so-called elven pedestal. I just object to TSR creating multiple
intelligent races and saying no matter what happens, the humans will always
come out on top! In every world they have created the elves are either
retreating or in decline (including spelljammer, where the imperial elven
navy gets its collective ass kicked by the scro). It is bloody ridiculous
that the humans win all the time. So I do occasionaly try to point out the
occasional logical fallacy, like the elves losing the pre-deismaar wars
without direct divine intervention.
Pieter A de Jong
Graduate Mechanical Engineering Student
University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
-
05-14-1998, 09:43 AM #3Siebharrin / ArathornGuest
elves on a pedestal? (was B
>Now to discuss this topic why the elves haven't used their wizards to
"crush" the armies of the humans we come to the fact that there are more
human priests of a spellcasting level then there are elven wizards (someone
said that they calculated the number of wizards of level 8+ in the capital
province of Tuarhivel to 80, the number is closer to 5 and then I'm being
generous. To balance this I can say that using the numbers available in BoP
the WIT can field a minimum of 53 priests of a spell casting level,
excluding Nichlaer himself).
>
> On top of this we must also remember that there are human wizards and
magicians also, certainly there are not as many human wizards as there are
elven but the best human wizards are of a higher level.
Hehe...
You forget Siebharrin - "The Lich" ...
20th level wizzie.
:) He demolished The Gorgons Armies at Sidheat (Or something like that...)
He's mentioned in the "Players secrets of Thuarviel".......
(argh)..
I've never seen any 20th level *human* mage. hehe. 20th level mages =
Magian, Siebahrrin and....
To top that... I think there is a 19th level elven mage in Khinasi
somewhere...
Arathorn DarkTome / Siebharrin the lich
Einar Helgerud
einarh@fagerborg.vgs.no
-
05-14-1998, 10:09 AM #4Siebharrin / ArathornGuest
elves on a pedestal? (was B
At 12:21 14.05.98 +0200, you wrote:
>>Hehe...
>>You forget Siebharrin - "The Lich" ...
>>20th level wizzie.
>>:) He demolished The Gorgons Armies at Sidheat (Or something like that...)
>>He's mentioned in the "Players secrets of Thuarviel".......
>>(argh)..
>
>
>With a nick name like the Lich are you sure he is an elf? :-)
Siebharrin was one of the most powerful mages the elves of thuarviel has
ever had.
When the Gorgon tried to take Sidheath(Or something). He created a rift to
the Shadow world, which killed all creatures in the province. The only
living being in the Sidheath is Siebharrin. The reason why he's being
called "the lich" is that his skin has,during the last couple of years,
grown whiter.
And that his Detect Life (great) reminds him of his terrible mistake.
And *none* of the spies the gorgon has sent to sidheath has returned.
Now.. this is almost what has been written in the "Players secrets to
Thuarviel"
But he's an elf all right. :)
Arathorn DarkTome / Siebharrin
-
05-14-1998, 10:21 AM #5Fredrik LundbergGuest
elves on a pedestal? (was B
>Hehe...
>You forget Siebharrin - "The Lich" ...
>20th level wizzie.
>:) He demolished The Gorgons Armies at Sidheat (Or something like that...)
>He's mentioned in the "Players secrets of Thuarviel".......
>(argh)..
With a nick name like the Lich are you sure he is an elf? :-)
>I've never seen any 20th level *human* mage. hehe. 20th level mages =
>Magian, Siebahrrin and....
>To top that... I think there is a 19th level elven mage in Khinasi
>somewhere...
That would be one elusive elf since the only 19th level wizard I can remember in Khinasi is El-Sheighül an he isn't an elf he is actually a Khinasi/Lost
Fredrik
-
05-14-1998, 12:00 PM #6rad smithGuest
elves on a pedestal? (was B
> When that folklore too began
> to pass away, the people began to think of the elves as angels who had not
> taken sides in Lucifer's rebellion, and come down to earth to get away
> from it all.
this being why faeries don't have souls (according to medieval christian
belief) similarly to angels and demons. this ties in nicely with them
having no priests in birthright.
- --
rad
uneasy listening music
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Similar Threads
-
Elves
By Sorontar in forum MainReplies: 0Last Post: 06-25-2009, 04:04 AM -
elves on a pedestal? (was Battl
By Ryan B. Caveney in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999Replies: 0Last Post: 05-13-1998, 08:21 PM -
Dark Elves/Elves in the Shadow
By Craig Greeson in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999Replies: 2Last Post: 03-20-1998, 09:52 AM -
Half-Elves (Was: dms on elves)
By Trizt in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999Replies: 8Last Post: 11-20-1997, 01:53 PM -
dms on elves
By RTomasz184@aol.co in forum MPGN Mailinglist archive 1996-1999Replies: 10Last Post: 11-20-1997, 01:48 PM
Bookmarks