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Thread: Source depletion
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11-30-1997, 12:00 AM #1BearcatGuest
Source depletion
>One other point. Mages don't actually have to live in the wilderness to cast
>true magic. Their connection with the land is enough to cast spells no matter
>where they are. It's only if they want to cast realm spells that they have to
>run out an find a natural source of mebhaighl to tap.
>
>Gary
Not only that, they can also bring the mebhaighl to civilized lands
using ley lines.
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08-07-1998, 12:08 PM #2Oyvind GronnesbyGuest
Source depletion
I must say I generally disagree with the notion that magic gets depleted
when civilization expands (that is the level of the province goes up, and
the source level goes down). If we are talking some kind of druidical magic,
I could disagree, but the magic that a wizard practices (as I see it) is a
more arcane form that is based on theory and research.
I can see the point of the elvish magic being depleted as thet are beings
that heavily rely on the forest, but humans? If this was the case, then all
the mages would go and live deep in the wilderness and seek out the big
sources (although these are usually heavily guarded by elves), and certeinly
not stay in a big metropolis like the Imperial City (the College of Sorcery).
Therefore I would not reduce the level of the source for human mages (and
maybe half-elven mages (depends on with whom they have studied)) in
civilized areas.
What do ya think of it?
Oyvind Gronnesby
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08-07-1998, 06:27 PM #3Gary V. FossGuest
Source depletion
Oyvind Gronnesby wrote:
> I must say I generally disagree with the notion that magic gets depleted
> when civilization expands (that is the level of the province goes up, and
> the source level goes down). If we are talking some kind of druidical magic,
> I could disagree, but the magic that a wizard practices (as I see it) is a
> more arcane form that is based on theory and research.
>
> I can see the point of the elvish magic being depleted as thet are beings
> that heavily rely on the forest, but humans? If this was the case, then all
> the mages would go and live deep in the wilderness and seek out the big
> sources (although these are usually heavily guarded by elves), and certeinly
> not stay in a big metropolis like the Imperial City (the College of Sorcery).
>
> Therefore I would not reduce the level of the source for human mages (and
> maybe half-elven mages (depends on with whom they have studied)) in
> civilized areas.
>
> What do ya think of it?
>
> Oyvind Gronnesby
Well, I see your point, but I think there are some other issues involved in the
BR setting that further justify the depletion of sources by civilization and the
human mages' links to it.
Deismaar: True magic in BR originated because of the godly fireworks show 1,500
years ago. During this event it isn't only the people around the battlefield who
absorbed some of the magical essense, but the earth itself. Mabheighl is infused
in the ground, and it is the bloodline connection with this magical essence that
allows blooded mages to cast true magic. The biggest influence upon sources is
the way human civilization has a tendancy to dig up the ground. Plowing, mines,
quarries, roads, all have big affects upon the earth. Even when a human puts up
a fence, he digs holes in the ground, chops down a bunch of trees and sticks them
in the holes. An elf would grow trees or brambles in a specific, nurtured manner
to block off the area (or cast spells that have similar, earth-friendly
effects.) Even in our mundane world, many people feel there is something
mystical about natural, uncivilized places. BR is trying to tap into that.
Elves: The only people able to use "true" magic before Deismaar were the elves.
They could do it because they were in touch with the land in a way allowed to
humans only after the battle. This is further evidence that the land is the
source of magical power.
The gods: Notice how many of the gods have some sort of elemental influence.
That is, the god of war still has influence over lightening, the goddess of
thieves can control cats. Avani and Neserie have obvious connections, Rournil
protects sources, etc. The point is that there are "natural" influences that the
gods have. While this might not have as much to do with mages as you might
think, it goes to the fundemental workings of the setting. That is, because
magic came from the gods and the gods have natural influences, nature itself has
magical power. (OK, it's probably my worst argument, but I've already written it
down, and I'm going with it....)
One other point. Mages don't actually have to live in the wilderness to cast
true magic. Their connection with the land is enough to cast spells no matter
where they are. It's only if they want to cast realm spells that they have to
run out an find a natural source of mebhaighl to tap.
Gary
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08-07-1998, 09:49 PM #4Daniel McSorleyGuest
Source depletion
From: Oyvind Gronnesby
>I must say I generally disagree with the notion that magic gets depleted
>when civilization expands (that is the level of the province goes up, and
>the source level goes down). If we are talking some kind of druidical
magic,
>I could disagree, but the magic that a wizard practices (as I see it) is a
>more arcane form that is based on theory and research.
>
>I can see the point of the elvish magic being depleted as thet are beings
>that heavily rely on the forest, but humans? If this was the case, then all
>the mages would go and live deep in the wilderness and seek out the big
>sources (although these are usually heavily guarded by elves), and
certeinly
>not stay in a big metropolis like the Imperial City (the College of
Sorcery).
>
>Therefore I would not reduce the level of the source for human mages (and
>maybe half-elven mages (depends on with whom they have studied)) in
>civilized areas.
>
This would throw huge kinks in the system, as right now there is kind of
a balance between sources and the other holdings.
Also, true magic _is_ elven magic. Before Deismaar, the humans had only
magicians, who have no connection to the land. The elves cast true magic.
After gaining bloodlines, humans could, too, and they learned it in the
elven style. There is a specific reference, I don't have time to find it,
where the Lost are said to have been taught magic by Azrai before Deismaar,
but it was not Elven magic, i.e. true magic. So, the wizards in this
setting _do_ rely on wilderness, just as the elves do.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
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08-08-1998, 07:48 AM #5Tim NuttingGuest
Source depletion
Interesting points all around. However, we need to keep the distinction
between True Magic and Realm Magic clear. True magic has existed since the
dawn of Aebyrnis. This distinction is only important in matters relating
to this plane of the Prime Material, how magic works in other Primes and on
the Inner and Outer Planes is completely irrelevant.
Lesser magic is derived from the powers of the mind and schooling in arcane
arts (this explains why there are no psionicists in Cerilia, Lesser magic
is a bastard child of psionics and wizardry)
True Magic is defined as being drastically more powerful than all of the
lesser magic's (heck - the difference between 2nd- and 3rd-level wizard
spells is somewhat large), and this magic requires that the use be born
with some magic in him already. He must be either blooded or somehow of
elvish descent. True magic was also unaffected by Deismaar, save that now
humans with the divine spark could use it.
What Deismar released was enough magical energy into the mortal population
that they could tap a heretofore unknown source of energy, the energy of
the land itself, the mebhaighl. I could quote everything out of "magic and
realm spells" in the rulebook, but that would do no good. In short, as
Gary pointed out, when humans rape the land is lessened, thus there is less
of this energy for the blooded wizards to tap.
It's funny, really, that this is the only magic for wizards (outside of
Athas) that has a clearly defined source of power...
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